Darth Maul VS. Exar Kun

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Glad you can back this shit up. Kun was a master swordsman as a padawan, so how long he played with the double blade is irrelevant. Futhermore, "deadliest sith apprentice in history" has no bearing on Kun, seeing as how he was never a sith apprentice.

Too bad for you I can, Kun was NOT a master swordsman as a padawan he's only called to it when he's a full Sith Lord, during his duel with Ulic Qel Droma. Moreover, would you please care to substanciate what exactly a "Master Swordsman" is because I can name you a list of "Master Swordsmen" off the top of my head:

Sora Bluq
Depa Billaba
Qui Gon Jinn
Asajji Ventress
Shado Vao
Ulic Qel Droma
Kit Fisto
Seanse Tinn
Anoon

All of whom would (and some have) fall to Maul, so please do tell where in this category does Kun fall. Seeing as he couldn't overcome Qel Droma, I hardly see how he could take on the likes of Maul who decimated someone more skilled then f*cking Yoda. Maul completely outclasses Kun, and would make short work of him.

Maul in NO way is better than yoda with a blade.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
Too bad for you I can, Kun was NOT a master swordsman as a padawan he's only called to it when he's a full Sith Lord, during his duel with Ulic Qel Droma. Moreover, would you please care to substanciate what exactly a "Master Swordsman" is because I can name you a list of "Master Swordsmen" off the top of my head:

Sora Bluq
Depa Billaba
Qui Gon Jinn
Asajji Ventress
Shado Vao
Ulic Qel Droma
Kit Fisto
Seanse Tinn
Anoon

All of whom would (and some have) fall to Maul, so please do tell where in this category does Kun fall. Seeing as he couldn't overcome Qel Droma, I hardly see how he could take on the likes of Maul who decimated someone more skilled then f*cking Yoda. Maul completely outclasses Kun, and would make short work of him.

Except for the fact you claiming Maul completely outclasses Kun doesn't make it so. I guess you completely forgot the fact that there's two aspects of saber combat. The saber combat, and force abilities. Anoon Bondoora might have been more skilled than Yoda, but no way could he have taken Yoda in a fight. Furthermore, there is NOTHING to suggest Maul's abilities are superior to Kun's, in saber combat and ESPECIALLY force combat.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except for the fact you claiming Maul completely outclasses Kun doesn't make it so. I guess you completely forgot the fact that there's two aspects of saber combat. The saber combat, and force abilities. Anoon Bondoora might have been more skilled than Yoda, but no way could he have taken Yoda in a fight. Furthermore, there is NOTHING to suggest Maul's abilities are superior to Kun's, in saber combat and ESPECIALLY force combat.

So because Kun is stronger then Maul in the force he wins automatically...ah no, its on you to prove that claim. As for saber combat what in the world makes you think Kun could beat Maul? Kun has had a total of what 4 duels in his entire life, his only challenge being Ulic Qel Droma whom even with his 1337 force power/connection couldn't beat Ulic. And got him put on his ass the first time he tried to fight Vodo.

I think theres ALOT to suggest Maul would murk Kun in a saber duel"

from the DSSB

The Dark Side Sourcebook:
"Darth Maul was taken offworld and indoctrinated into the ways of the dark side, trained by Darth Sidious in not only Sith lore, but in the Jedi arts. Any display of fear on his part was punished with vicious retribution. Any hint of mercy in his character was rewarded with severe cruelty. One those rare occasions when he relaxed his guard, his master nearly killed him to remind him that a Sith can never afford a moment of rest. After years of this kind of treatment, Darth Maul was absolutely ruthless-a perfect Sith weapon. By the
time he reached adolescence, Darth Maul was already a hardened, remorseless killer."

Anger and hatred welled up in Maul, and he drew renewed strength from the dark side. Hurling himself at Darth Sidious, he nearly bested his master with a flurry of deadly lightsaber blows. Sidious barely deflected them all."

As you've seen for yourself Maul is: "the perfect Sith weapon", he nearly killed Darth f*cking Sidious in a saber duel.

He completely outclassed Anoon who was described as:

A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents. and as The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the order. His skill with a lightsaber was second to none.

From Shadow Hunter:

Using his control of the Force, Darth Maul gripped the weapon in a dark tentacle of energy and hurled it at the bounty hunter's face, hard.
The woman was fast. She dodged the blaster, firing a bolt at it. She missed and recovered, but the distraction had served its purpose. Before the weapon had bounced off the wall and landed on the floor, Maul had the lightsaber in his grasp. He thumbed on both blades as the next blaster bolt and half a dozen more came his way in rapid succession. The Sith apprentice's hands were a blur as he let the dark side take him over completely, giving in to its power and allowing it to control and manipulate him.

Maul, is very skilled at using the Dark Side to enhance his abilities to the point where he moves at blur.

This is also a man who is the only person in all of shown Star Wars (to my knowledge) to simply tank force lighting:

Not to mention tooling with Qui Gon Jinn (who was on the level of TMP Mace) and Obi Wan Kenobi at the same time.

On top of this he's called as I've already stated by the UVG to be one of the deadliest Sith Apprentices ever. So how the hell is Exar "master swordsman" Kun going to beat Maul? A man who was raised for only one purpose to simply hunt, fight and kill force users.

You can't substantiate what exactly a Master-swordsmen is so there goes that argument, and Kun's most impressive dueling feats are: stalemating Ulic, and beating an old crab who tried to use a stick against a Sith Lord...thats not exactly helping your side. Finally your only "real" point with any substance (you can't even really say that) is Kun's force connection is gonna beat Maul, which you've yet to PROVE, or even offer a legitimate argument for.

Originally posted by Dr. Styles
So because Kun is stronger then Maul in the force he wins automatically...ah no, its on you to prove that claim. As for saber combat what in the world makes you think Kun could beat Maul? Kun has had a total of what 4 duels in his entire life, his only challenge being Ulic Qel Droma whom even with his 1337 force power/connection couldn't beat Ulic. And got him put on his ass the first time he tried to fight Vodo.

The Dark Side Sourcebook:
"Darth Maul was taken offworld and indoctrinated into the ways of the dark side, trained by Darth Sidious in not only Sith lore, but in the Jedi arts. Any display of fear on his part was punished with vicious retribution. Any hint of mercy in his character was rewarded with severe cruelty. One those rare occasions when he relaxed his guard, his master nearly killed him to remind him that a Sith can never afford a moment of rest. After years of this kind of treatment, Darth Maul was absolutely ruthless-a perfect Sith weapon. By the
time he reached adolescence, Darth Maul was already a hardened, remorseless killer."

Maul, is very skilled at using the Dark Side to enhance his abilities to the point where he moves at blur.

On top of this he's called as I've already stated by the UVG to be one of the deadliest Sith Apprentices ever. So how the hell is Exar "master swordsman" Kun going to beat Maul? A man who was raised for only one purpose to simply hunt, fight and kill force users.

You can't substantiate what exactly a Master-swordsmen is so there goes that argument, and Kun's most impressive dueling feats are: stalemating Ulic, and beating an old crab who tried to use a stick against a Sith Lord...thats not exactly helping your side. Finally your only "real" point with any substance (you can't even really say that) is Kun's force connection is gonna beat Maul, which you've yet to PROVE, or even offer a legitimate argument for. [/B]

I don't have to offer an argument for Kun being superior to Maul in force abilities. That is pretty much an obvious fact so it would be on you to prove otherwise.

The only real 'weakness' I've seen in Maul, is his sudden lack of power when he feels as though Sidious doesn't favor/need him. It literally scares him to the point where he looses focus. Of course, fear leads to anger/hate, yada yada - so naturally Maul can use this fear to his advantage, eventually.

So imo, unless Exar could somehow exploit said 'weakness', and catch Maul in a moment of instability/vulnerability - he would probably fall.

Maul feeds most off fear, so that's out. And I doubt very much he'll succumb to Dun Moch either.

I never claimed Kun would win because he was stronger with the force, YOU claimed I said it. Now you're claiming that Kun somehow can't beat Maul because he didn't beat Ulic, who was also a saber prodigy and a master swordsman?

I apologize I read your post as:

"Except for the fact you claiming Maul completely outclasses Kun doesn't make it so. I guess you completely forgot the fact that there's two aspects of saber combat. The saber combat, and force abilities. -eliminate every thing about Anoon- Furthermore, there is NOTHING to suggest Maul's abilities are superior to Kun's, in saber combat and ESPECIALLY force combat."

My mistake.

However, no I'm not claiming that cause Kun didn't bet Ulic he can't beat Maul, I'm saying that Exar Kun has two noteworthy dueling feats - beating Vodo, and stalemating Ulic, meaning he's displayed nothing that would put him in the category of a top duelist in Maul someone who nearly beat Darth Sidious in saber combat someone who's pretty much the only person in SW who's stood toe to toe with Yoda in a saber duel.

And this quote helps Maul's case how?

To stress the point that he is a living weapon and the point of his being is to kill others in combat.

I hope you aren't suggesting that Maul is in any way close to Kun in foce abilities.

How did you get that out it? I put that to note that Maul has enough speed to move as a blur when fighting, further staking the odds against Exar as I know Ulic (his toughest foe he had ever faced) isn't as technically skilled, faster, or as physically powerful as Maul.

Please substantiate "deadliest sith apprentice ever" into the context of this fight.

Includes Ulic Qel Droma who happened to be a you know: Sith apprentice, who happened to you know: stalemate Exar Kun. Maul is deadlier then him meaning if Kun has problems with Ulic he'll have hell with Maul.

I don't have to offer an argument for Kun being superior to Maul in force abilities. That is pretty much an obvious fact so it would be on you to prove otherwise.

The point was as this is a saber only fight how will Kun's force abilities (the only thing he has over Maul) translate into a victory for him against Maul?

Originally posted by Tangible God
Maul feeds most off fear, so that's out.

My point is - Exar's only prayer here, is IF he can in some way utilize that weakness against Maul. Doing so my give him that precious moment he needs. Not saying he would be able to pull off something like that - just saying that's the only feasible option for him.

imo, of course.

Originally posted by Galan007
Except for the fact that I've seen him become scared/fearful [that Palpatine no longer favored him] and he momentarily lost focus. This lack of focus rendered him weaker, rendered him vulnerable [to the point where a novice did much better than he ever should've]. For a short time.

My point is - Exar's only prayer here, is IF he can in some way utilize that weakness against Maul. Doing so my give him that precious moment he needs. Not saying he would be able to pull off something like that - just saying that's the only feasible option for him.

imo, of course.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Lol, well, unless Exar suddenly makes Maul his apprentice, then threatens to get rid of him in favour of Ulic, Kun doesn't really have a chance at using the "fear approach."

Includes Ulic Qel Droma who happened to be a you know: Sith apprentice, who happened to you know: stalemate Exar Kun. Maul is deadlier then him meaning if Kun has problems with Ulic he'll have hell with Maul.

Only thing though, and I'm not trying to say Kun would win, but "one of" may or may not include Ulic. It doesn't really specify who's he's above. By that logic, he could be put above Bane or even Sidious.

But one thing I was curious about, does that only apply to other sith lords in their apprentice stages, or does it also include them even after they become Masters?

Also, to be fair, it said his hands moved as a blur, not his whole body. Sounds trivial, i know, but that is a big difference.

And, wasn't it disputed awhile ago that the chick hitting him with lightning was no where near the level of say, Sidious or Dooku, as far as lightning mastery/power level?

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Mauli is ONE of the deadliest sith apprentices, where is the proof he is a better fighter than Ulic?

Where is the evidence Ulic is even on the same level as Maul? Not saying he'd be a push over, but I'm not seeing any evidence where you could say Kun and Ulic were on par with Maul as duelists. Dueling is Maul's greatest talent, he was trained to use the dark side to assist his body in becoming an efficient tool of destruction against any opponent. Even allowing him to resist the effects of a direct blast of force lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

And, wasn't it disputed awhile ago that the chick hitting him with lightning was no where near the level of say, Sidious or Dooku, as far as lightning mastery/power level?

You could say that, but where's the evidence that lightning doesn't incapacitate whoever it comes into contact with? Surely the effect of lightning is to shock and (with prolonged application) incinerate the body.

Once it's physically manifested its effects are independent of the force strength of its user, the output of energy may be dependent on force strength but the actual lightning itself - if the user has ample strength to make it manifest - should shock whoever it comes into contact with.

Maul manipulates the dark side in such a way that his body resists the effects of the lightning that's making contact with his body.

Mighella is certainly not as potent as Darth Tyranus in the Force (much less Darth Sidious), but remember, she is the private bodyguard of the supreme leader of Black Sun -- a criminal syndicate so vast and influential that "the ignorant refer to it as the most powerful force in the galaxy" (according to that same Darth Sidious) -- to be placed on a greater plane by the common person than the Galactic Republic or even the droid armies of the Trade Federation implies that Garyn wouldn't have kept Mighella around unless she was worth an army of firepower herself. This, of course, is supplemented by the statement from the UVG that she is "highly trained" and "skilled" in the Force.

Hmmm, well obviously my last point was based off of a debate that was going on months ago. I must've been absent when more light was shed on her and the situation. My fault though.

My only thing is, and it probably doesn't matter, but i have a really hard time believing that Maul easily do with his whole body, what Yoda seemed pained to do with only his hands. And that is deflect/resist force lightning. I was thought of Maul as more of a physical beast as opposed to a force god (speaking figuratively, i don't mean to be compared to the ranks of Luke, Sidous and the like).

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Hmmm, well obviously my last point was based off of a debate that was going on months ago. I must've been absent when more light was shed on her and the situation. My fault though.

My only thing is, and it probably doesn't matter, but i have a really hard time believing that Maul easily do with his whole body, what Yoda seemed pained to do with only his hands. And that is deflect/resist force lightning. I was thought of Maul as more of a physical beast as opposed to a force god (speaking figuratively, i don't mean to be compared to the ranks of Luke, Sidous and the like).

He isn't a Force god. He merely resisted the lightning due to his incredible body stamina and training. Physically, Yoda doesn't compare to him.

i said figuratively speaking. I know he's no force god, but the other kid said he manipulates the dark side to make his body resistant, which would be a force feat rather than that just physical prowess. Not saying he's right, in fact that was my way of disagreeing with him about that part. But electricity should effect the same type of matter the same way, with slight variations depending on the subject in question.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
i said figuratively speaking. I know he's no force god, but the other kid said he manipulates the dark side to make his body resistant, which would be a force feat rather than that just physical prowess. Not saying he's right, in fact that was my way of disagreeing with him about that part. But electricity should effect the same type of matter the same way, with slight variations depending on the subject in question.

Well, I felt Maul was applying the darkside to his body. Maul's physical body without the dark side, possess no special property to resist the powerful effects of Sith Lightning.

Why would the Nightsister be surprised by Maul's resistance if all it took was physical fitness? How would the Nightsister have chosen to use her force lightning as a weapon, if physical fitness alone was enough to resist it? She might as well have used a blaster then.