Cloud Strife vs Mundus

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Maybe you should make sure you actually know what the hell you are talking about when you make claims?

You've already seen Sephiroth use Wall.

Here we see Genesis using very high level Fire spells with only a second long charge.

YouTube video

Kadaj using materia quickly a few times in this vid.

YouTube video

2. DMC is full of bullshit, fail, and AIDS. There is nothing unique about the gameplay, and Dante is quite possibly the single most craptastic and un-funny character to ever exist. Popular? Yeah, hence why I said it is overrated.

And those powers you named do not imply to me at all he can kill Cloud.

I demand vids.

1. But i do, thus my point still stands, can you show me proof of that being wall please, it looks like a tiny shield the likes of which you would use to stop a few arrows, not what the moves in the games are.

If thats high level, thats a joke, small fireballs? "sigh" thier more like firefly bolts if that, and he took about 2/3 seconds, if he were to use that against Mundus i would laugh.

2. Can you prove thats materia he is using? Doesnt look like most of the spells ive seen...nor are any of them really effective...

Can you show me Cloud using any powers? I mean you seem to like using the movie, so perhaps I would like to see Cloud in teh movie use powers, perhaps he has zero materia in canon and so thats why he doesnt use it if you cannot show me?

Since judging by those two vids alone, it seems Materia is just powerups, sort of like Dantes stars and such, which ofc are not canon objects he has to use in debates off hand anyway, so by default Cloud has very little, give him materia, and he seems to have slow very little, unless he wants to fire those "high level fireballs" at the lord of the hells, you know...the fiery place.

3.. its fun and fast gameplay that a lot of people enjoy, if you like slow games like FF then w/e

and what you talking about? does Cloud have any endurance feats that makes me think he isnt much more in endurance than a normal man? Mundus can crush Cloud, he is fully capable, Cloud however has no abilities to stop Mundus, no fast ones.

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
its only slow during ingame play, do you truely believe the characters would do a turn based system and stand arround to let the other people attack while waiting for their turn? The spells (although having a casting time) are very much usuable at fast speeds dependign on the characters skill level (such as the Sephiroth feat, compared to a considerably slower Firaga from Genesis during hte cut scene)

Ime not talking about the turn based part of the game, thats only when you choose the ability, but after that, while the ability is being performed that cannot be blamed on turn based or anything, the player isnt even controlling the action after the spell is chosen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. But i do, thus my point still stands, can you show me proof of that being wall please, it looks like a tiny shield the likes of which you would use to stop a few arrows, not what the moves in the games are.

If thats high level, thats a joke, small fireballs? "sigh" thier more like firefly bolts if that, and he took about 2/3 seconds, if he were to use that against Mundus i would laugh.

2. Can you prove thats materia he is using? Doesnt look like most of the spells ive seen...nor are any of them really effective...

Can you show me Cloud using any powers? I mean you seem to like using the movie, so perhaps I would like to see Cloud in teh movie use powers, perhaps he has zero materia in canon and so thats why he doesnt use it if you cannot show me?

Since judging by those two vids alone, it seems Materia is just powerups, sort of like Dantes stars and such, which ofc are not canon objects he has to use in debates off hand anyway, so by default Cloud has very little, give him materia, and he seems to have slow very little, unless he wants to fire those "high level fireballs" at the lord of the hells, you know...the [b]fiery place.

3.. its fun and fast gameplay that a lot of people enjoy, if you like slow games like FF then w/e

and what you talking about? does Cloud have any endurance feats that makes me think he isnt much more in endurance than a normal man? Mundus can crush Cloud, he is fully capable, Cloud however has no abilities to stop Mundus, no fast ones. [/B]

Really? He fired like 15 bolts in two quick castings, and then controlled them to surroud Sephiroth and hit him from all sides.

2. Why? Cause they could not hit Cloud? Yeah I could, though it would involve me searching Youtube for a clip of Kadaj actually inserting said materia in his arm, so nah.

I use the movie because it is canon, so I do not know what you are implying. In the movie he did not use materia for some totally gay reason, if you watch the second vid you will see that Yuffie was going to bring some to him, but for some ignorant reason his friends did not let her. Stop talking out your ass.

Or he could use time materia to stop time and eviscerate Mundus. If Cloud casts haste on himself and slow and Mundus, Mundus will be basically standing still, or he can just do one better by casting Stop, he will literally be standing still. Oh, and those are just Fire materia, there is also Ice, Thunder, and many others.

3. It is a decent adventure/action gameplay-wise in quality at best. And if you wanna play the popularity game, Final Fantasy is more popular than DMC. 🙂

Oh don't get me wrong, Cloud is nothing special in endurance, only a bit above peak human, but he is fast and can evade fatal attacks. Oh, and Omnislash V. 5, is "In the blink of an eye."

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. O RLY? Even though he stopped an explosive fireball with it? Sephiroth was a SOLDIER at that point, he did not have his independent powers like in AC or FFVII, he limitations like Cloud, it could only be Wall unless I am forgetting some other shield materia.

Really? He fired like 15 bolts in two quick castings, and then controlled them to surroud Sephiroth and hit him from all sides.

2. Why? Cause they could not hit Cloud? Yeah I could, though it would involve me searching Youtube for a clip of Kadaj actually inserting said materia in his arm, so nah.

I use the movie because it is canon, so I do not know what you are implying. In the movie he did not use materia for some totally gay reason, if you watch the second vid you will see that Yuffie was going to bring some to him, but for some ignorant reason his friends did not let her. Stop talking out your ass.

Or he could use time materia to stop time and eviscerate Mundus. If Cloud casts haste on himself and slow and Mundus, Mundus will be basically standing still, or he can just do one better by casting Stop, he will literally be standing still. Oh, and those are just Fire materia, there is also Ice, Thunder, and many others.

3. It is a decent adventure/action gameplay-wise in quality at best. And if you wanna play the popularity game, Final Fantasy is more popular than DMC. 🙂

Oh don't get me wrong, Cloud is nothing special in endurance, only a bit above peak human, but he is fast and can evade fatal attacks. Oh, and Omnislash V. 5, is "In the blink of an eye."

1.Or perhaps its just a weak use of magic energy, it doesnt look like wall, from what ive seen wall doesnt look like that in the other games, and it stops a firefly ball.

2. Okie so if your going to use moview feats, then we use movie Cloud otherwise its irrelevent, if were using movie Cloud then he uses zero materia, and by default Cloud doesnt have canon materia for his own personal use usually, so someone would have to add it to him. Ill stop if i actually start...

Time stop? so you can show me Cloud using time stop materia quickly? if its anything like most of his other abilities, a long 4 second cast, so far youve shown me an unkown materia apprently from Kadaj, weak firefly balls and a shield you dont even know the exact materia since it doesnt tell you or imo look like wall, get some good proof before you try and dismiss my claims.

3. yeh because its probably the only game that draws attension from either the female population or gays who love queer gray haired dudes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1.Or perhaps its just a weak use of magic energy, it doesnt look like wall, from what ive seen wall doesnt look like that in the other games, and it stops a firefly ball.

2. Okie so if your going to use moview feats, then we use movie Cloud otherwise its irrelevent, if were using movie Cloud then he uses zero materia, and by default Cloud doesnt have canon materia for his own personal use usually, so someone would have to add it to him. Ill stop if i actually start...

Time stop? so you can show me Cloud using time stop materia quickly? if its anything like most of his other abilities, a long 4 second cast, so far youve shown me an unkown materia apprently from Kadaj, weak firefly balls and a shield you dont even know the exact materia since it doesnt tell you or imo look like wall, get some good proof before you try and dismiss my claims.

3. yeh because its probably the only game that draws attension from either the female population or gays who love queer gray haired dudes.

all spells in FF are faster than the gameplay shows you the canon speed is shown by the movie, and in the crisis core cutscenes..is there any need to prove that a single spell is as slow as the gameplay version when we have at least 5 other spells shown in cutscenes to be much faster?

What 5 other spells? so far weve got an unkown shield spell Dark "assumes" is wall, then weve got fireballs, you trying to tell me you think its logical to assume just because that fire spell is a 2/3 second cast those like meteor are also? nonsense, we see the spells in the game, their canon as well, and their neither gameplay nor part of the turn based, their basically mini cutscenes and their slow castings.

we have the wall thing
fireballs
kadaj's blue fireballs
kadaj summoning the bahumit sin thing (not that it really matters, since its still slow 😬)
(at a stetch) sephiroth's summoning the negative lifestream

not to mention all those ones we see in kingdom hearts cutscenes..

Are the blue fireballs even materia however? and we dont actually know if thats wall or not, it doesnt look that much like wall, its a shield but its not necesserily wall.

Ive heard many say KH is not canon to FF wihch makes sense, so its irrelvent.

Cloud can't hurt him. Nothing in the FF7 universe is powerful enough to hurt him. Mundus showed either reality warping, or time/space warping.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What 5 other spells? so far weve got an unkown shield spell Dark "assumes" is wall, then weve got fireballs, you trying to tell me you think its logical to assume just because that fire spell is a 2/3 second cast those like meteor are also? nonsense, we see the spells in the game, their canon as well, and their neither gameplay nor part of the turn based, their basically mini cutscenes and their slow castings.

No, its "gameplay speed", i've shown you the speed difference between gameplay and the actual speed in another thread, so i don't know why you're still calling it that.

Cloud can't hurt him. Nothing in the FF7 universe is powerful enough to hurt him. Mundus showed either reality warping, or time/space warping.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1.Or perhaps its just a weak use of magic energy, it doesnt look like wall, from what ive seen wall doesnt look like that in the other games, and it stops a firefly ball.

2. Okie so if your going to use moview feats, then we use movie Cloud otherwise its irrelevent, if were using movie Cloud then he uses zero materia, and by default Cloud doesnt have canon materia for his own personal use usually, so someone would have to add it to him. Ill stop if i actually start...

Time stop? so you can show me Cloud using time stop materia quickly? if its anything like most of his other abilities, a long 4 second cast, so far youve shown me an unkown materia apprently from Kadaj, weak firefly balls and a shield you dont even know the exact materia since it doesnt tell you or imo look like wall, get some good proof before you try and dismiss my claims.

3. yeh because its probably the only game that draws attension from either the female population or gays who love queer gray haired dudes.

2. O RLY? Movie Cloud and game Cloud are the same person smart one. Any feat from one applys to the other. And in FFVII, Cloud did have materia. So stop ass-talking.

In gameplay the spells are pretty quick, but there is no vid that says,"Cloud using Time magic in gameplay" so no. The unknown materia was stated to be materia and inserted in his arm on-screen, and you say the fireballs are weak, well you say it to discredit the opponent based on nothing but the fact that you want Mundus to win. Why are they weak? The only shield materia is Wall, so it must by default be assumed to be Wall. Though that is beside the point, my point was that spells can be used quickly. I showed you instances of them being used quickly, denying the proof just shows how biased you are.

3. And Dante is not a queer grey haired dude? Dante is a piece of shit, their has never been a shittier character conceived, fitting for an overrated piece of shit game series.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Are the blue fireballs even materia however? and we dont actually know if thats wall or not, it doesnt look that much like wall, its a shield but its not necesserily wall.

Ive heard many say KH is not canon to FF wihch makes sense, so its irrelvent.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No, its "gameplay speed", i've shown you the speed difference between gameplay and the actual speed in another thread, so i don't know why you're still calling it that.

Then how exactly did Dante beat him?

Thats the problem, its not even gameplay because your not playing anything while it happens, the player is not doing anything, the only thing players do in FF, which is the gamepaly is choosing the powers and abilities and thats during the turnbase system.

Because Dante is more powerful than Cloud, more endurance, has a monstrous healing factor, are you trying to compare Cloud to Dante?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Right. Why is it weak? Because you say so? Or is it because the shield was blue? You have no basis at all to say whether it is weak or not. There is no other shield spell in FFVII, should we assume it is some random unknown materia no one has ever heard of before?

2. O RLY? Movie Cloud and game Cloud are the same person smart one. Any feat from one applys to the other. And in FFVII, Cloud did have materia. So stop ass-talking.

In gameplay the spells are pretty quick, but there is no vid that says,"Cloud using Time magic in gameplay" so no. The unknown materia was stated to be materia and inserted in his arm on-screen, and you say the fireballs are weak, well you say it to discredit the opponent based on nothing but the fact that you want Mundus to win. Why are they weak? The only shield materia is Wall, so it must by default be assumed to be Wall. Though that is beside the point, my point was that spells can be used quickly. I showed you instances of them being used quickly, denying the proof just shows how biased you are.

3. And Dante is not a queer grey haired dude? Dante is a piece of shit, their has never been a shittier character conceived, fitting for an overrated piece of shit game series.

1. Well yes, it could be something no ones heard of before, wheres the shadow beast materia? or blue ball meteria weve seen in the film you use? ive not seen them before, show me please.

2. Which are not his own objects, their like dante powerups.....and actually yes their the same person, but obviously they both show diffrent things, Kain in defiance is still the same Kain from Blood omen, but their diffrent.

Their weak because their tiny little things that did nothing to sephiroth anyway, ime comparing them to say, Mundus' massive beams, in comparison to tiny firefly balls, their weak.....Or it could be another random unkown materia as youve said about Kadaj, so no ,it doesnt have to be wall "smartone". No you show me a weak fireball spell used quickly, (which strangely enough was about 3 seconds os not that qucik rly) and you showed me Kadaj using an unkown materia, youve shown Cloud do nothing, youve shown no other abilities either, if you think Time is fast, then show me him using Time fast, simple as that.

3. As lame as I think Dante is, he is >>Sephiroth imo

Originally posted by MadMel
obviously...kadaj the only magic kadaj could use before getting the materia was summoning those shadow beast (thats another spell btw 😉 )
also, every time he uses the fireballs the arm which he inserted the materia glows..i think those are pretty good indicators 😬
wall is the only shield materia, so what other sheild could it be?
and while KH is non canon, it is hardly irrelevant
it is for all intents and purposes another FF game, so the spell speed applies 😬..lemme give you another example..
even though FFVIII is non canon when used with FFVII, the spells are still fast in cutscenes...faster than bullets..

So name me the materia that Kadaj uses to fire at Cloud, DJ calls it an unkown materia so obviously theres materia thats unkown unless DJ is just stupid....obviously if he is not, then this little splat of a shield is not ncesserily wall.

its not a FF game, its KH, it simply has some FF characters

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats the problem, its not even gameplay because your not playing anything while it happens, the player is not doing anything, the only thing players do in FF, which is the gamepaly is choosing the powers and abilities and thats during the turnbase system.

Because Dante is more powerful than Cloud, more endurance, has a monstrous healing factor, are you trying to compare Cloud to Dante?

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Well yes, it could be something no ones heard of before, wheres the shadow beast materia? or blue ball meteria weve seen in the film you use? ive not seen them before, show me please

Originally posted by Burning thought
2. Which are not his own objects, their like dante powerups.....and actually yes their the same person, but obviously they both show diffrent things, Kain in defiance is still the same Kain from Blood omen, but their diffrent.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Their weak because their tiny little things that did nothing to sephiroth anyway, ime comparing them to say, Mundus' massive beams, in comparison to tiny firefly balls, their weak.....Or it could be another random unkown materia as youve said about Kadaj, so no ,it doesnt have to be wall "smartone". No you show me a weak fireball spell used quickly, (which strangely enough was about 3 seconds os not that qucik rly) and you showed me Kadaj using an unkown materia, youve shown Cloud do nothing, youve shown no other abilities either, if you think Time is fast, then show me him using Time fast, simple as that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
3. As lame as I think Dante is, he is >>Sephiroth imo

Originally posted by Burning thought
So name me the materia that Kadaj uses to fire at Cloud, DJ calls it an unkown materia so obviously theres materia thats unkown unless DJ is just stupid....obviously if he is not, then this little splat of a shield is not ncesserily wall.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its not a FF game, its KH, it simply has some FF characters

Originally posted by MadMel
clouds healing factors matches dantes..he he got shot in the head healed instantly..as for power..you mean strength, magic or abilities?
strength - cloud chops up pieces of buildings with no effort
magic - cant say much for cloud, other than his materia
abilites - cloud has insta omnislash 😬

the shadow beast required no materia..the blue materia ingame (as far as i can remember) was an all materia

bad analagy..kain evolves, cloud doesnt..cloud retains the same skills he did..he doesnt gain anything new, except for a kickarse bike and a new set of swords 😬

how hard is it to understand? ALL spells in FF are fast..its simply because of time based gameplay + graphical limitations that they appear slow in gameplay

lol hardly

a little splat of a sheild that happens to be wall..how do i know that? because there only needs to be 1 type of sheild materia 😬

its made by SE, so the rules still apply..expecially since the spells in KH are slower in gameplay than they are in cutscenes...
besides like i said, the spells in FF8 are instant, so why not in FF7?

You think Clouds healing factor matches Dantes? Dante has been impaled many times and its nothing to him as it heals up in no time, and all ive seen from cloud is being shot across the face, he just loses his goggles because its a glancing blow while on his bike, if your talking of a diffrent time then show me please.

Strength: thats not necesserily strength, a weak man with a sharp enough/powerful enough blade could slice through an object with a sword.

abiltiies: thats not going to be worth anything though is it when Munudus is flying far above him......

Okie so we have somethin that needs no materia? so do we know the splat of a shield Sephiroth used needed materia?

No good anology, Cloud does evolve, just not genetically, Kain doesnt just evolve genetically either, he gains new weapons and powers, just like Cloud, this is just a diffrent type of evolution of a character. Cloud may be diffrent in equipment or ability, especially since a lot of powers in FF series is interchangable between characters i. e materia.

You cant prove that at all, you cant prove all spells are? Its nothing to do with time based gameplay, ive already told you, your not playing and theres no gamaeplay mechnics after the spell is chosen, which is when you get the slow cast speed. You blame graphical limitations? lol...thats nothing to do with speed at all, if theyve chosem a set time, it doesnt matter if they made the damn game in flash, it doesnt mean its going to be slow, the producers made the spell times slow, simple. its not that hard to understand that FF is slow casting.

yes, Sephiroth looks like a gender confused nutter who looks like a women, Dante at least has an obvious gender.

because its not shown in FF7.....FF8 is a diffrent game, if their more proficient magic users in that then FF7 guys cannot be compared.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You think Clouds healing factor matches Dantes? Dante has been impaled many times and its nothing to him as it heals up in no time, and all ive seen from cloud is being shot across the face, he just loses his goggles because its a glancing blow while on his bike, if your talking of a diffrent time then show me please.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Strength: thats not necesserily strength, a weak man with a sharp enough/powerful enough blade could slice through an object with a sword.

Originally posted by Burning thought
abiltiies: thats not going to be worth anything though is it when Munudus is flying far above him.......

Originally posted by Burning thought
Okie so we have somethin that needs no materia? so do we know the splat of a shield Sephiroth used needed materia?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No good anology, Cloud does evolve, just not genetically, Kain doesnt just evolve genetically either, he gains new weapons and powers, just like Cloud, this is just a diffrent type of evolution of a character. Cloud may be diffrent in equipment or ability, especially since a lot of powers in FF series is interchangable between characters i. e materia.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You cant prove that at all, you cant prove all spells are? Its nothing to do with time based gameplay, ive already told you, your not playing and theres no gamaeplay mechnics after the spell is chosen, which is when you get the slow cast speed. You blame graphical limitations? lol...thats nothing to do with speed at all, if theyve chosem a set time, it doesnt matter if they made the damn game in flash, it doesnt mean its going to be slow, the producers made the spell times slow, simple. its not that hard to understand that FF is slow casting.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes, Sephiroth looks like a gender confused nutter who looks like a women, Dante at least has an obvious gender..

Originally posted by Burning thought
because its not shown in FF7.....FF8 is a diffrent game, if their more proficient magic users in that then FF7 guys cannot be compared.

Originally posted by MadMel
he got shot full in the face..theres a scar left over that mysteriously disappears later 😬

did i mention the sword itself weighs about 200Kg?

except cloud can jump so high he can see the earths actual curve..mundus would have to fly into space in order to lose cloud 🙄

because its wall

yea but since he had a massive chest of materia at his disposal at the start of AC im willing to bet he had access to every single one, and would choose between them before doing something potentailly suicidal

ff8, FF9, FFX (pretty much EVERY FF after 7), AC, crisis core, before crisis, end crisis all point to the contraryand since they are newer their canon retcons the canon of FF7

so that automatically makes him << dante? what kind of bulshit is that?

only in ultemecia's case..every other character is far weaker than seph, and yet they cast faster? why? GRAPHICS
graphics are everything in this case..the graphics of FF7 were bad even by the standards of the playstation 1..when FF8 came along the grahpics got an immense boost, which meant better animations and hence faster spells...no spells were shown to be in FF7's cutscenes PURELY because the graphics being used were not good enough to make that happen..

Can you show me please

so....humans have lift 200kg, so Cloud is strong, but not superhuman.

Yeh thats useful, not...dont grab at straws, and second when has he done this? all ive seen of Cloud is him jumping, then getting thrown by his friends several times.

show me the proof of this please 🙂

Well if hes not given the materia or the ability to choose before fighting Mundus by the thread creator hes stuffed.

What nonsense, even I know that FF7 is still almost if not completly nothing to do with FF10, Tidus is not Cloud for example, is Cloud even in FF10?

We were discussing the characters themselves, i.e how they look etc etc if your discussing power then Dante still>>Sephrioth even more so.

its nothing to do with flaming graphics, I can create a FLASH video a FLASH game where the graphics are made out of paint characters yet they could cast faster, its nothing to do with speed, its a terrible argument, grasping at straws. And far weaker in what way? magic? Ive not seen Sephiroth do many magical feats myself, so far a whisp of a shield. That would be like me saying Kains teleportation takes a second to charge and isnt instant just because of the graphics, or I could say the same about any game.