Muslim and Christianity,what's the problem?

Originally posted by chithappens
And pretty open about their belief? Name some non-Christian politicians.

Barak Obama 😖hifty:

Originally posted by inimalist
Barak Obama 😖hifty:

What? I thought he was a Christian...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What? I thought he was a Christian...

that, uh, was actually the joke...

I think it actually proves chit's point though, that a presidential candidate can be slandered by insinuating that they are A MUSLIM!!!!!

Originally posted by inimalist
that, uh, was actually the joke...

I think it actually proves chit's point though, that a presidential candidate can be slandered by insinuating that they are [b]A MUSLIM!!!!! [/B]

The truly sad thing is that if he was a Muslim, he would not have a chance.

Originally posted by Arel
Many time's in quarell we forget that Muslim(Alah) and Chrsitian(God) have one and unified Lord.So basically they believe in the same things,just differently.Muslim also accepts the New Testament and consider the Jesus as a prophet.
So why are there so many conflicts between them?
Is it [B]HOW to believe more important,than in WHO to believe? [/B]

Christianity and Islam are almost the same religion, the only real difference is the view of Jesus. That aside, both tell followers to be humble. The New Testament says to turn the other cheek. And the Koran preaches religious tolerance as well. But as with any group, its the assholes who stand out. Crooked cops make the news, embezzling CEO's make the news, and religious nutjobs make the news.

Tell them: "You go and have your religion, and I shall have mine".
- The Koran 109:6

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Christianity and Islam are almost the same religion, the only real difference is the view of Jesus. That aside, both tell followers to be humble. The New Testament says to turn the other cheek. And the Koran preaches religious tolerance as well. But as with any group, its the assholes who stand out. Crooked cops make the news, embezzling CEO's make the news, and religious nutjobs make the news.

[b]Tell them: "You go and have your religion, and I shall have mine".
- The Koran 109:6 [/B]

Hmmmm So, they are both evil. 😂

Originally posted by Arel
Many time's in quarell we forget that Muslim(Alah) and Chrsitian(God) have one and unified Lord.So basically they believe in the same things,just differently.Muslim also accepts the New Testament and consider the Jesus as a prophet.
So why are there so many conflicts between them?
Is it [B]HOW to believe more important,than in WHO to believe? [/B]

Christian Arabs call god Allah. And Christians generally refer to God as Deus or Theos depending on which branch of Christianity you belong to...
And aren't you forgetting Jews?! What about Jews?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Christian Arabs call god Allah. And Christians generally refer to God as Deus or Theos depending on which branch of Christianity you belong to...
And aren't you forgetting Jews?! What about Jews?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I need some clarification, leonheartmm, as to what foreign policy you are refering. President Clinton's foreign policy was very different from President Bush's.

no, i am referring to the LONG standing foreign policy, of continuous interference in the affairs of other countries{which inevitably include much of the third world, and hence, practically all of the muslim world over the last 60-70 years} and neo colonialism. ofcourse, seeing as how touchy muslims are, all political and economic attacks and mechanations of america seem like an attack on ISLAM{ not saying there isnt truth to that seeing the very strong protestant ethic in american political history} and obviously, this promotes hostility.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, i am referring to the LONG standing foreign policy, of continuous interference in the affairs of other countries{which inevitably include much of the third world, and hence, practically all of the muslim world over the last 60-70 years} and neo colonialism. ofcourse, seeing as how touchy muslims are, all political and economic attacks and mechanations of america seem like an attack on ISLAM{ not saying there isnt truth to that seeing the very strong protestant ethic in american political history} and obviously, this promotes hostility.

America has had a similar impact in Latin and South America

I agree, between democrat or republican, they all seem to have foreign intervention at the top of their priorities.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Christianity and Islam are almost the same religion, the only real difference is the view of Jesus. That aside, both tell followers to be humble. The New Testament says to turn the other cheek. And the Koran preaches religious tolerance as well. But as with any group, its the assholes who stand out. Crooked cops make the news, embezzling CEO's make the news, and religious nutjobs make the news.

[b]Tell them: "You go and have your religion, and I shall have mine".
- The Koran 109:6 [/B]

Nice find. Yet that's one line. I'll bet you could find lines to justify violence as well. Which is right? Thus the problem with religious texts.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nice find. Yet that's one line. I'll bet you could find lines to justify violence as well. Which is right? Thus the problem with religious texts.

That was apparently abrigated, which means that the verse applied to Mecca at the time but doesn't now.

I think it also says in the Quran to face to Rome it was then abrigated and muslims now face to Mecca.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nice find. Yet that's one line. I'll bet you could find lines to justify violence as well. Which is right? Thus the problem with religious texts.

It wasn't a hard find, since its one of the more prominent lines and creeds in the religion. The lines that justify violence, only justify revenge; the Koran never condones being an aggressor. So that line is supersedes any that speak about violence.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The lines that justify violence...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thus the problem with religious texts.

...there's also Phantom's caveat to consider, and how easy it is for people to circumvent a line through some loophole ("well, that was intended for {insert city, time, rule, etc}, but this other edict supercedes it"😉. Basically, it's impossible to defend objective, definite interpretation of religious texts. As soon as you create rigid dogmas that have supposedly divine backing, you're going to have problems. This goes for any religion.

Peaceful Muslims use lines such as that, and reasoning such as your own, to defend themselves and their religion, without realizing that it is the same practice that creates the problem in the first place. The conclusions are different, but the system (the Koran/Bible/etc. being the Word of God) is set up in such a way that such differing interpretations are inevitable. Thus, the peaceful adherents of a religion justify themselves admirably, but not their religion, for they fail to address the true problem.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...there's also Phantom's caveat to consider, and how easy it is for people to circumvent a line through some loophole ("well, that was intended for {insert city, time, rule, etc}, but this other edict supercedes it"😉. Basically, it's impossible to defend objective, definite interpretation of religious texts. As soon as you create rigid dogmas that have supposedly divine backing, you're going to have problems. This goes for any religion.

Peaceful Muslims use lines such as that, and reasoning such as your own, to defend themselves and their religion, without realizing that it is the same practice that creates the problem in the first place. The conclusions are different, but the system (the Koran/Bible/etc. being the Word of God) is set up in such a way that such differing interpretations are inevitable. Thus, the peaceful adherents of a religion justify themselves admirably, but not their religion, for they fail to address the true problem.

Notice how you conveniently cut off the last half of my quote. It condones eye for an eye, not being an aggressor. Islam is a religion of laws, and like any law, there is punishment for offenses. Sometimes, the punishment is violence. You seem to think that it says its ok to walk around and kill random people, despite also having an unambiguous line that says to be religiously tolerant in no uncertain terms. Its not a loophole.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Notice how you conveniently cut off the last half of my quote. It condones eye for an eye, not being an aggressor. Islam is a religion of laws, and like any law, there is punishment for offenses. Sometimes, the punishment is violence. You seem to think that it says its ok to walk around and kill random people, despite also having an unambiguous line that says to be religiously tolerant in no uncertain terms. Its not a loophole.

I read the whole quote. It wasn't intended to be devious. The rest of your quote, and the explanation here does nothing to circumvent my point.

Also, a hearty lulz to this: "You seem to think that it says its ok to walk around and kill random people." So I'm a murderer now because I dislike people who use religion to violent ends? Shoddy logic there, chief.

Anyway, I'm a bit stunned that you continue to miss the point: I couldn't care less if a line is unambiguous and preaches tolerance. That's great, actually. The point is that as long as there is an "unfallible" divine being backing a religion's texts and scriptures, people will find justification for their violence in the words somewhere. And the fact that it is a dogmatic religion that is the one "true" religion, this is right in their eyes. The fact that you or I can look at the Koran and not have it inspire hatred for others in us is irrelevant (though I remain skeptical that you don't harbor hatred). That fact that it happens, and people throw their own lives away as well as others' because of subjective religious study, IS the issue.

Thought experiment: make all religion metaphoric and continue to use it as a teaching tool to help us through life, but don't make any of it literal truth. How many people of any belief are then going to throw their lives away for it, or use it to justify violence in the name of their god? Not all violence would go away, but a considerable amount sure as hell would. As long as religious texts exist that claim to be literal truth, the bad consequences will exist.

So congrats on proving Islamic violence wrong. If I had the money, I'd fund a trip for you to go to the most war-ravaged areas of the Middle East. I'm sure the people there just accidentally missed the line....

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Notice how you conveniently cut off the last half of my quote. It condones eye for an eye, not being an aggressor. Islam is a religion of laws, and like any law, there is punishment for offenses. Sometimes, the punishment is violence. You seem to think that it says its ok to walk around and kill random people, despite also having an unambiguous line that says to be religiously tolerant in no uncertain terms. Its not a loophole.

Yes, I've heard this before. All the people in the World Trade Center were guilty. 🙄

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, a hearty lulz to this: "You seem to think that it says its ok to walk around and kill random people." So I'm a murderer now because I dislike people who use religion to violent ends? Shoddy logic there, chief.

It seems more like he was referring to what he felt were your expressed beliefs about Muslims.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Anyway, I'm a bit stunned that you continue to miss the point: I couldn't care less if a line is unambiguous and preaches tolerance. That's great, actually. The point is that as long as there is an "unfallible" divine being backing a religion's texts and scriptures, people will find justification for their violence in the words somewhere. And the fact that it is a dogmatic religion that is the one "true" religion, this is right in their eyes. The fact that you or I can look at the Koran and not have it inspire hatred for others in us is irrelevant (though I remain skeptical that you don't harbor hatred). That fact that it happens, and people throw their own lives away as well as others' because of subjective religious study, IS the issue.

Considering everyone believes something even if they don't believe in a divine entity and that they almost always are convinced that they are absolutely correct the only way to address the problem would be the total elimination of free thought. Eliminating religion would do nothing but alter the targets.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thought experiment: make all religion metaphoric and continue to use it as a teaching tool to help us through life, but don't make any of it literal truth. How many people of any belief are then going to throw their lives away for it, or use it to justify violence in the name of their god? Not all violence would go away, but a considerable amount sure as hell would. As long as religious texts exist that claim to be literal truth, the bad consequences will exist.

They'd simply justify it in a different way or not bother to justify it at all. If people are capable of rationalizing being violent and destructive when they believe the consequences could be hell gives no reason to assume that by eliminating one source of hatred would have any effect on the amount of violence in the world. All it would do would be to highlight the huge number of crimes that people commit that have absolutely nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, I've heard this before. All the people in the World Trade Center were guilty. 🙄

Perception or alternately: eggs, omelet

The reason we are all so intense when we talk about what we believe is because each of us know we are right, just like everyone else.

- Me

Originally posted by chithappens
The reason we are all so intense when we talk about what we believe is because each of us know we are right, just like everyone else.

- Me

I know that everyone is just as wrong as I am. 😉