Originally posted by King Kandy
Since when? Ultron is beta now?
The creation of secondary and primary Adamantium was created for the very purpose of retcon'ing away Hulk and Thor damaging Adamantium.
Ultron was destroyed with Antarctic Vibranium which destabalizes the molecular bonds of metals, not brute strength.
No it is a divergent time line that took place inside of what is normally a 616 book, like DoFP, HCT, and the current Old Man Logan and Millar and Hitch's Fantastic Four story line. That's how Marvel deals with time travel and alternate futures, the get relegated to an alternate earth if they aren't what actually came to pass in 616 canon.
Originally posted by srankmissingninI think there are different feats of Thor damaging adamantium. As far as I remembered, Avengers #66 has a feat of Thor using a full force strength Mjolnir swing to dent a cylinder of "true adamantium." This was supposedly the first appearance and mention of adamantium in Marvel history and the cylinder was created from the original perfected process.
The creation of secondary and primary Adamantium was created for the very purpose of retcon'ing away Hulk and Thor damaging Adamantium.Ultron was destroyed with Antarctic Vibranium which destabalizes the molecular bonds of metals, not brute strength.
There are other more ambiguous feats also... in 'Secret Wars' towards the end, Savage Hulk was fighting Ultron who, at that time, was armored in "pure adamantium" and he caused a crack that allowed Wasp an opening to screw up his circuitry inside. And I think we all know about how Pak kinda re-retconned Hulk's statue into being composed of "pure adamantium." Whether or not the latter two instances of "pure adamantium" were actually the strongest forms of adamantium is questionable. But I think Thor denting the cylinder was the strongest form of adamantium and remains so. It was never retconned.
And then there is the whole Cyber issue. His skin has been described as "pure" or "true adamantium," I believe... and it's actually flexible. That doesn't make sense if the strongest form of adamantium is truly undentable/unbreakable. For "true adamantium" to become flexible, then it must be malleable. If it is malleable, it must also be capable of being dented physically. Perhaps not shattered... but at least dentable.
Personally, the only way to reconcile this is to either assume that the strongest form of adamantium can indeed be dented. Whereby past feats and Cyber's skin makes sense. Or you must assume everything has been retconned as secondary adamantium. Even Cyber's skin. What is the first comic appearance or on-panel reference to secondary adamantium actually? Anybody have a scan? Maybe that will help shed some light. And if anybody has the Avengers #66 scan or Secret Wars scan... by all means.
Originally posted by srankmissingninCyber's skin can't be true adamantium. Doesn't make sense. If it's flexible, it's malleable. If it's malleable, it's dentable. Maybe it's not shatterable or cuttable... but it's dentable. By your standards, Cyber's skin is not true/pure adamantium and was retconned.
Secondary Adamantium was created for the very purpose of retcon'ing away Thor denting the cylinder and Hulk damaging Ultron.Cybre is just ridiculous and non-sensical and no one should waste any time thinking about how he moves because you won't come up with anything that makes a lick of sense. 🙁
At the same time, I'd prefer an actual scan of secondary adamantium rather than taking it at your word. We've argued over scans before. Avengers #66 describes the very process they use for creating adamantium. It's the first actual appearance of adamantium in Marvel history. They present a cylinder to Thor to test it out and he dents it slightly with the greatest swing he could muster. I don't see how such a clear and unambiguous presentation could possibly have been retconned unless it was specifically retconned on-panel when Marvel came up with secondary adamantium. I can understand the other times when Thor used lightning to smash apart adamantium as being retconned, or Wonderman smashing adamantium with his hands... but not Avengers #66 unless there is specific reference to it. I'd even consider taking a secondary source from Marvel. Do you have the scan, reference, issue number or handbook entry?
Exactly 66 was the first appearance of Adamantium inside of Marvel. Thor damaged it and latter they decided they wanted it to be completely unbreakable via physical means so they created Secondary Adamantium. It was created to deal with those specific instances, its the whole reason the retcon happened.
Cyber he just doesn't make any sense, they should have just said his skin was Carbonadium, it supposed to be virtually indestructible to... but its also incredibly flexible. Even if he is skin was seconday adamantium... he still shouldn't be able to move. I mean the best Thor can do is dent it. Cyber is a dumb character... I wouldn't spend to much time thinking about how he moves, I just put it up their with character's talkin in space and having the ability to see what is happening around them while moving a hundred times faster than the speed of light.
^ I understand what you're trying to say as you've basically repeated yourself. But I would rather read the comic itself or the handbook reference itself. I only have your word to take for your interpretation. And your word is not enough for me as we've argued before over scans and interpretations. If you are so sure that your interpretation is correct, give me the scan or just point me to the sources themselves and let me decide for myself.
"What is the first comic where secondary adamantium was introduced on-panel or what secondary source confirms that the below was specifically retconned?"
Because I am hard-pressed to believe that this two page splash was retconned. This is from Avengers #66. This is the first on-panel appearance of adamantium. Here is the original scientist testing out his new accidental creation by having the Avengers take their shots at it. What possible reason could the professor have to be testing secondary adamantium? The entire scene, indeed, the entire comic is based around them testing this new discovery. And we all know that the first discovery of adamantium was pure adamantium. For the first discovery of adamantium to be secondary adamantium is nonsensical. Secondary adamantium is a cheap substitute for pure adamantium. Without clear evidence to the contrary, I'm not going to dismiss this feat:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I understand what you're trying to say as you've basically repeated yourself. But I would rather read the comic itself or the handbook reference itself. I only have your word to take for your interpretation. And your word is not enough for me as we've argued before over scans and interpretations. If you are so sure that your interpretation is correct, give me the scan or just point me to the sources themselves and let me decide for myself."What is the first comic where secondary adamantium was introduced on-panel or what secondary source confirms that the below was specifically retconned?"
Because I am hard-pressed to believe that this two page splash was retconned. This is the first appearance of adamantium from Avengers #66. Here is the original scientist testing out his new accidental creation by having the Avengers take their shots at it. This is the first on-panel appearance of adamantium. What possible reason could the professor have to be testing secondary adamantium? The entire scene, indeed, the entire comic is based around them testing this new discovery. And we all know that the first discovery of adamantium was pure adamantium. Without clear evidence to the contrary, I'm not going to dismiss this feat:
Yeah, I got'cha but it's a lot harder to track down instances of Adamantium appearing in a comic than it is a character... and I don't even want to bother looking for Primary/Secondary Adamantium references in my comic library... I wouldn't even know where to start... and its not like you can just thumb through either, you'd have to read all the captions and speach... it would take awhile
^ Then it's arguable you remembered it incorrectly. Even third-hand sources like wikipedia and marveldirectory.com state that Thor dented true adamantium. Between what I see in Avengers #66 on-panel, those third-hand sources and Cyber's skin; I'm more inclined to take that over your unsupported assertion. This is not a personal slight. I'll be searching around for secondary adamantium references myself to put the issue at rest.
Either way, Cyber's skin being flexible is evidence that true adamantium is dentable. Maybe not shatterable or cuttable... but definitely dentable, especially when presented in tandem with Avengers #66. And now that I think of it, Cyber's skin HAS to be true adamantium. Genesis harvested it from Cyber on his first death and deemed it to be true adamantium, right? And I think eventually, Apocalypse bonded this same adamantium to Wolverine's skeleton. So any retcon of Cyber's skin being anything but true adamantium is simply false. It isn't secondary adamantium. And it's malleability, maybe a virtue of it's razor thinness, allows it to flex. Nonetheless, flexibility infers malleability, which strongly supports dentability.
As to whether the Ultron that Savage Hulk smashed in 'Secret Wars' was pure adamantium or not is still debateable. Which is why I'll continue to look for the comics that introduce secondary adamantium or second-hand sources confirming such retcons specifically. As far as I see, Avengers #66 was never retconned. It couldn't have been, for the aforementioned reasons.
Originally posted by K-Dog
I don't think adamantium would cut adamantium would it? When two substances are equal, the monomolecular shape would simply make it small and weak compared to the large one inch bar wouldn't it? Therefore none of them can.Could the Thor godblast go through adamantium as thick as aluminum foil?
Rock can crush rock. Steel can break steel hmm