Joker vs Lex Luthor

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/555145/EmperorJokerPage38.jpg.html

Wut?! "I am Lex God damned Luthor. I raise my voice, and Satan himself is on bended knee. I am the leader of the free world, you impotent little psychotic. I've had the most powerful beings on this or any planet gunning for me for years, and you think you're going to scare me."

Oh and by the way Emperor Joker doesn't count here. He had reality manipulating powers, that's not his normal version and didn't Supes defeat him or something in that story arch?

Originally posted by Allankles
Wut?! "I am Lex God damned Luthor. I raise my voice, and Satan himself is on bended knee. I am the leader of the free world, you impotent little psychotic. I've had the most powerful beings on this or any planet gunning for me for years, and you think you're going to scare me."

Oh and by the way Emperor Joker doesn't count here. He had reality manipulating powers, that's not his normal version and didn't Supes defeat him or something in that story arch?

He'll likely bombard LexCorps with Joker Venom while Luthor is unaware, and just walk inside and give a point-blank headshot to Luthor.

We have provided you with on-panel proof that Joker can beat Lex in his best day.

2 on-panel pics showed Joker pwning Lex.
(jokerized Lex in Last Laugh, headshot in EJ)

Yet you Luthor fangirls have not provided a shred of evidence to support your claims.

Joker omfgwtfpwns Lex Luthor
unless proven otherwise.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Doesn't change the fact that Joker would do the same to Luthor in this situation.

He'll likely bombard LexCorps with Joker Venom while Luthor is unaware, and just walk inside and give a point-blank headshot to Luthor.

Oh! It does, in this case Luthor is actually prepared and preparing for the Joker on the same day the Joker is preparing for him.

Luthor's resources extend his the reach of his influence far more quickly and efficiently than Joker's influence. So Luthor is likely to hit at the Joker or gather information on the Joker more quickly and he has the sheer strength of his tech to protect him when his best laid plans don't work out, Joker isn't in the same position.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
We have provided you with on-panel proof that Joker can beat Lex in his best day.

2 on-panel pics showed Joker pwning Lex.
(jokerized Lex in Last Laugh, headshot in EJ)

Yet you Luthor fangirls have not provided a shred of evidence to support your claims.

Joker omfgwtfpwns Lex Luthor
unless proven otherwise.

Emperor Joker is not proof, remember he had Myx's power, not his own? And Joker getting at Luthor when he's president? When he has responsibilities that extend beyond taking care of a full time anarchist criminal? When he doesn't have the protection of Lex Corp' defenses and technologies? He only had the secret service protecting him while he was in public office, many street levelers could have gotten to him in that position.

And in the comics, Luthor doesn't respect or care for the Joker (in this fight he's actually focused on the Joker alone). And as someone pointed out Luthor has always been the one leading the Joker in their villain teams, he even recruited him in some comics i.e. Joker has often been portrayed as the follower when it comes to Luthor.

Anyway, this is a fair fight, (at least as far their positions and prep time is concerned) in this scenario the Joker is the most likely to lose.

Joker has never really followed Luthor. I'm assuming you're referring to Rock of Ages, where at the end of it Joker pulls the switcheroo on everyone and winds up with the Worlogog. And figures out how to use it quite immediately, something Luthor had months to do.

And discounting the Jokerised President Luthor because he was the President... is a cop-out. Luthor with the resources of the United States military at his disposal declared war on the Joker... and lost. Simple as that.

I see people basically referring to Luthor's resources while ignoring Joker's resourcefulness.

Again.. this fight is a toss-up.

Originally posted by Allankles
Emperor Joker is not proof, remember he had Myx's power, not his own? And Joker getting at Luthor when he's president? When he has responsibilities that extend beyond taking care of a full time anarchist criminal? When he doesn't have the protection of Lex Corp' defenses and technologies? He only had the secret service protecting him while he was in public office, many street levelers could have gotten to him in that position.

And in the comics, Luthor doesn't respect or care for the Joker (in this fight he's actually focused on the Joker alone). And as someone pointed out Luthor has always been the one leading the Joker in their villain teams, he even recruited him in some comics i.e. Joker has often been portrayed as the follower when it comes to Luthor.

Anyway, this is a fair fight, (at least as far their positions and prep time is concerned) in this scenario the Joker is the most likely to lose.

bump

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

And discounting the Jokerised President Luthor because he was the President... is a cop-out. Luthor with the resources of the United States military at his disposal declared war on the Joker... and lost. Simple as that.

How is it a cop out when he left the responsibility of handling the Joker entirely to other people?

In this scenario Luthor has direct input and power over his resources in handling the Joker. He's not a president who merely makes declarations. He's in his full blown role as criminal mastermind/scientist here. Luthor takes it 7/10 at least.

Originally posted by Allankles
How is it a cop out when he left the responsibility of handling the Joker entirely to other people?

In this scenario Luthor has direct input and power over his resources in handling the Joker. He's not a president who merely makes declarations. He's in his full blown role as criminal mastermind/scientist here. Luthor takes it 7/10 at least.

That's no excuse, considering the fact that him being president gives him more power and control over the military and secret government agencies = more resources.
Come again.

PS: The events which took place in Last Laugh and EJ should not be disregarded. Those were merits for Joker.
Joker's punked Lex in two different occasions, both considered as CANON BTW.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Just because he's president, he no longer is much of a threat than he was before he was president??

That's no excuse, considering the fact that him being president gives him more power and control over the military and secret government agencies = more resources.
Come again.

PS: The events which took place in Last Laugh and EJ should not be disregarded. Those were merits for Joker.
Joker's punked Lex in two different occasions, both considered as CANON BTW.

As President, Luthor actually has less power, and is less dangerous. His actions are far more restricted, and he is under constant scrutiny from more than just Superman and the JL. He is susceptible to impeachment if his actions threaten the well being of his government, he's not ruling in a dictatorship remember.

Beyond that in Last Laugh as President, Luthor wasn't masterminding the destruction of Joker, he could only essentially put a bounty on the Joker's head, he didn't mastermind anything there, he was a sitting duck because he had to perform his major role in public office, in this fight he isn't under those kind of restrictions, or distractions.

We know Luthor is a genius, and Joker is very cunning. So at least we know both can be master strategists, the difference is that Luthor's influence in his universe is greater than Joker's, he has more power, resources, technical skills you name it, not to mention he is very resourceful as well, he has built himself back up from scratch plenty of times with ambitious schemes.

My argument is simply that Luthor should win more often than not.

EDIT: Oh yeah! And Luthor rebuilt Gotham, he has plenty of influence in that city as well.

Originally posted by Allankles

My argument is simply that Luthor should win more often than not.

The burden of proof is with you.
On-panel evidence >>> your opinions

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
FAIL.
Come again when you have a better argument.

The burden of proof is with you.
On-panel evidence >>> your opinions

That's the point there is no on panel evidence that Joker takes this. He strong arms gorillas to get at Lex? Lex wasn't masterminding Jokers demise at that time, while the Joker had the freedom to set up President Luthors kidnapping: that doesn't apply in this scenario.

Emperor Joker? He has Myx's power: doesn't apply. Until you can give on panel evidence that applies to the scenario drawn up here by the thread starter, you have to go by logic: Luthor is a strategist, Luthor is resourceful, Luthor has the overwhelming edge in power and resources, therefore Luthor most likely wins. You'd have to be reaching to have it the other way.

Luthor is a genius with far greater resources, there's no way Joker would take a majority. You'd have to think up the more improbable scenarios to have Joker winning this.

The only thing on panel is that Joker can beat Luthor h2h, and even then it was a pretty even fight.

Originally posted by Allankles
That's the point there is no on panel evidence that Joker takes this. He strong arms gorillas to get at Lex? Lex wasn't masterminding Jokers demise at that time, while the Joker had the freedom to set up President Luthors kidnapping: that doesn't apply in this scenario.

Emperor Joker? He has Myx's power: doesn't apply. Until you can give on panel evidence that applies to the scenario drawn up here by the thread starter, you have to go by logic: Luthor is a strategist, Luthor is resourceful, Luthor has the overwhelming edge in power and resources, therefore Luthor most likely wins. You'd have to be reaching to have it the other way.

Luthor is a genius with far greater resources, there's no way Joker would take a majority. You'd have to think up the more improbable scenarios to have Joker winning this.

The only thing on panel is that Joker can beat Luthor h2h, and even then it was a pretty even fight.

What evidence do you have to claim that Lex Luthor wins against Joker?
Scans please. You can't just go blabbering about utter nonsense without anything to back your claims.

Joker has faced and overpowered adversaries far smarter and more dangerous than Lex.

hate to say it but Lex wins....

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The fact that Joker has defeated Lex (doesn't matter what issue or when or how) in two different occasions means jackshit to you??

What evidence do you have to claim that Lex Luthor wins against Joker?
Scans please. You can't just go blabbering about utter nonsense without anything to back your claims.

Joker has faced and overpowered adversaries far smarter and more dangerous than Lex.

Originally posted by george '06
and yet he regularly takes an ass whipping from batman, so obviously, hes not the genius you say he is

Originally posted by Starscream M
joker's actually smarter than lex

No everyone will vote joker due to the fact the batman movie was a hit and the joker was the star of the show.

Lex is smart then the joker, but the joker is more sadistic.

Originally posted by kgkg
I don't see how loosing to batman as an indication of jokers intelligence especially when batman is considered to be one of the smartest heroes in DC.