Obama in Germany; or 'Giving out Fish'

I think we are all inclined to take the cynical route when it comes to politicians (and we all know Bush has been playing the fool his entire political career) as of now.

I don't blame anyone for being suspicious. I hope he wins the election and brings about some cohesion that begins to amend the U.S.'s very battered international reputation.

Originally posted by KidRock
That is nice of him to list all those problems..unfortunately I didn't see one solution to any of those problems.

Id rather him fix the problems here..in America..you know the country he is running for president of?

Recognizing problems elsewhere in the world doesn't mean he's abandoning problems that are centered here in America.

Becomming the president doesn't just mean he'd be the leader of America, it makes you the leader of the free world. So speaking of global affairs certainly isn't a bad thing.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't think that was being suggested

However, he does seem to be insinuating that, if elected president, one could depend on him to try and fix the situation, which, imho, sounds really nice and will motivate especially those who feel ostracized from the politcal system to vote for him, however, its not something he has any control over, and it is likely any American involvement will be seen as imperial.

No, the point of this thread is not to say Obama will be as bad as Bush

i think his use of "we" alot in the speech isn't really meant to imply that as leader of the US he would get the US involved in things such as Darfur. the fact is that the world sees the US as ignoring alot of these kinds of issues throughout the world and as the worlds most powerful country it can persuade other nations to do more....

i dont believe the US will actually commit any large scale resources to world causes such as AIDS epidemics (not at a governmental level when institutions such as the Bill Gates foundation are doing it) but merely to exert political pressure on other nations to help in the fight against AIDS, terrorism etc

i believe the speech was also intended as the 1st step toward repairing the US's damaged reputation across the world...many countries in Europe have distanced themselves from the US over the last 7 years and this is an attempt at beginning to rectify that and to start a joint effort against global problems

it was certainly shrewd but i didn't see any notion of American imperialism or intervention...then again...maybe that's where the shrewdness really came into play...."the greatest trick the devil ever pulled...etc etc"

Originally posted by BackFire

Becomming the president doesn't just mean he'd be the leader of America, it makes you the leader of the free world. So speaking of global affairs certainly isn't a bad thing.

Unless your George Bush..then you should just "mind your own business!!"

We are not in Iraq to bring democracy... if that's what you are implying

Originally posted by BackFire
the free world.

What classifies as the free world?

I assume the free world to be countries in which the people can choose their leaders in regular and repeated free and fair elections,as opposed to one party states, dictatorships military or otherwise.Semi benign autocracies such as Saudi Arabia. Theocracies and any other denial of democracy.

I feel blessed to live in a land that is free on this basis,but strange as it seems to me it appears that there are places where democracy is not what the people want

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
What classifies as the free world?

Its an obsolete hangover-term from McCarthyism.

I feel a touch dissapointed his trip to london is such a quite affair,but maybe the private talks are potentially important. McCain s visit was so low key i must have blinked and missed it.
the british government dosent want to show bias were told

Originally posted by jaden101
i think his use of "we" alot in the speech isn't really meant to imply that as leader of the US he would get the US involved in things such as Darfur. the fact is that the world sees the US as ignoring alot of these kinds of issues throughout the world and as the worlds most powerful country it can persuade other nations to do more....

i dont believe the US will actually commit any large scale resources to world causes such as AIDS epidemics (not at a governmental level when institutions such as the Bill Gates foundation are doing it) but merely to exert political pressure on other nations to help in the fight against AIDS, terrorism etc

i believe the speech was also intended as the 1st step toward repairing the US's damaged reputation across the world...many countries in Europe have distanced themselves from the US over the last 7 years and this is an attempt at beginning to rectify that and to start a joint effort against global problems

it was certainly shrewd but i didn't see any notion of American imperialism or intervention...then again...maybe that's where the shrewdness really came into play...."the greatest trick the devil ever pulled...etc etc"

again, however, this deals with the actual implementation of the ideas

I agree with you, and if this is really how obama feels, good show

What do you think of these as rhetoric?

My dictionary -collins concise- varies deffinition of rhetoric from
The study of the technique of using language effectivly--to
Speech or discourse that pretends to significance but lacks true meaning

well its good to hear speeches that use language effectivly and are not peppered with bloopers and regionalisms
Much of speech rambled across history for the benefit of the berlin audience, but i can believe that barack wants to open up the US internationally

Originally posted by inimalist
again, however, this deals with the actual implementation of the ideas

I agree with you, and if this is really how obama feels, good show

What do you think of these as rhetoric?

No one can answer that fairly until he gets into office.

Originally posted by inimalist
again, however, this deals with the actual implementation of the ideas

I agree with you, and if this is really how obama feels, good show

What do you think of these as rhetoric?

depends on who the rhetoric is aimed at...i think it'll do wonders for his status throughout the world but in the US...his outlook and focus on world affairs may be seen as a detriment to domestic issues and thus might not be well received in the US

it all depends on whether the US people see it as him wanting the US to solve all the problems or whether he simply wants to encourage other nations to do so

i think the sentiment of what he is proposing is sound though....but then how can you criticise someone who's proposing to help solve the worlds problems...whether or not directly or indirectly