Re: Re: What does a Person Blind From Birth....?
Originally posted by lord xyz
They don't (black).
That seems to illustrate a severe lack of imagination and experience in a non-sighted world. Just because you and I can't absolutely define what a blind person thinks of the colour red doesn't mean there's no difference between red and green for a blind person.
seeing as every individual has different dreams anyway, blind people probably also experience different things when dreaming.
I wondered if any blind person has ever had OBE (outer body experience), Ive had these lots of times and everything is white and hazzy.
I took this from a treatse (whatever that is) on Astral Projection I found on the net...
Blind people cannot visualize AT ALL, if they have been blind since birth, but they do have a very keen sense of bodily awareness. The majority of sighted people also have great trouble with visualization of any kind, and all projection techniques depend heavily on visualization. This being the case, I developed a projection technique that does NOT depend on visualization to exert pressure on the astral body to separate. It turned out to be so much easier, and more successful, than the other visualization based techniques, that I discarded them in favour of this simple tactile method.
Note: Blind people are not blind in astral form. The astral body does not have any organs as such, it is a point of consciousness only. The astral body you are aware of while projecting is provided courtesy of the subconscious minds creative ability.
link here : http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/rbruce3.html
astral projection? really? for serious?
Visual dreams in the congenitally blind?
Lopes da Silva FH
Trends in Cognitive Science 7, 2003.
An EEG study of sleep in congenitally blind persons revealed a significant correlation between the visual activity reported during dreaming and the decrease of alpha strength recorded from the central and occipital regions of the scalp. This provides the first objective evidence that subjects who have never had visual experiences can have dreams with virtual images that are probably mediated by the activation of the cortical areas responsible for visual representations.
Visual dream content, graphical representation and EEG alpha activity in congenitally blind subjects
Bértolo H, Paiva T, Pessoa L, Mestre T, Marques R, Santos R
Brain Research: Cognitive Brain Research 15, 2003
It is currently claimed that congenitally blind do not have visual imagery and are therefore unable to present visual contents in their dreams. The aim of our study was to quantitatively evaluate the existence of visual imagery in born-blind dreams and to correlate it with objective measures, such as sleep EEG frequency components, namely with alpha attenuation (regarded as an indicator of visual activity), and graphical analysis of dream pictorial representations. The investigation was carried out via simultaneous recordings of dream reports and polysomnography, during nocturnal sleep at volunteers' homes; scheduled regular awakenings during the night provided the data for dream and EEG analysis. In the morning, subjects were asked to make a drawing of their dream images. Congenitally blind (n=10) were comparable to normal sighted subjects (n=9): the two groups presented equivalent visual activity indices, and no differences in the analysis of graphical representation of dreaming imagery. However, blind subjects presented a lower rate of dream recall than sighted (27% versus 42%). Both groups had significant negative correlation between Visual Activity Index (VAI) and alpha power in the central and occipital O2 derivations (blind: C4: r=-0.615, P<0.005; O2: r=-0.608, P<0.006; sighted: C4: r=-0.633, P<0.01; O2: r=-0.506, P<0.05). This correlation was weaker for the blind in O1 (r=-0.573, P<0.05) and non-existent for the sighted. Blind individuals have significantly lower alpha activity in the central derivation. In conclusion, the congenitally blind have visual content in their dreams and are able to draw it and, as expected, their VAI is negatively correlated with EEG alpha power.
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Some notes: The conclusion that occipital activation in blind subjects indicates sight is not necessarily true. Blind individuals show activation in visual areas when reading braille, and people kept blindfolded for days show a similar effect. Our brains are highly plastic, meaning they adapt based on what is coming in, and it is possible that, instead of being a "visual cortex", that area is designed for "visual type" experiences, that can be adapted for different situations.
However, the subjects themselves report visual activity during dreams
They can understand colour as well as you can understand heat or X rays.
That was an interesting article. But I´m not sure you can measure all activity with electrodes and the like, things may be happening in the brain or energetic self which cannot be measured.
I know Astral projection or OBE and that sort of thing may sound daft,
unless you´ve experienced it. I have, so I thought it would be an interesting angle on this discussion.
Originally posted by Bicnarok
That was an interesting article. But I´m not sure you can measure all activity with electrodes and the like, things may be happening in the brain or energetic self which cannot be measured.
not, not even close, and EEGs are highly sensitive to interference, be it from equipment or from just other brain activity.
However, in this, it was the similarity of activation in the visual cortex between blind and sighted individuals. One would expect, if a brain sees nothing, there would be no activation in that area.
Like I said, because of plasticity, it might be that the visual cortex play a roll in something "vision like", such as spatial arrangement of objects, distances, etc, for blind people. However, the blind people did describe visual phenomena in their dreams.