Originally posted by DigiMark007
Care to explain how faster reflexes and greater leg strength equate to a lower top speed? I'm not trying to be difficult, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Simple. Pure strength doesn't directly correlate to top speed. The Hulk is slower than Quicksilver, even though Pietro's leg press is thousands of times lower than Banner's.
Spidey's best straight-line running speed feat isn't as impressive as his competitor's, so his only defense is pure speculation. And last I checked, speculation wasn't worth much on the forum.
Originally posted by Soljer
Simple. Pure strength doesn't directly correlate to top speed. The Hulk is slower than Quicksilver, even though Pietro's leg press is thousands of times lower than Banner's.Spidey's best straight-line running speed feat isn't as impressive as his competitor's, so his only defense is pure speculation. And last I checked, speculation wasn't worth much on the forum.
Except Hulk weighs about 3x as much as Quicksilver.
The comparison between Quicksilver and Hulk doesn't really correlate, but I see where you're going.
Though I still feel Spiderman's top speed is higher than Cap's.
Well, in the real world, foot speed is whats important. Determined by genes are the proportion of fast-twitch fibres to slow-twitch fibres.
As they say, sprinters are born, not made.
However, building strength in the body, especially the legs does have a big impact. Think about professional sprinters and their amount of muscle mass.
Originally posted by Mindset
Except Hulk weighs about 3x as much as Quicksilver.The comparison between Quicksilver and Hulk doesn't really correlate, but I see where you're going.
Though I still feel Spiderman's top speed is higher than Cap's.
Except Hulk's legs are about 300000 times stronger then Quicksilver. He has more muscles; he should be faster correct?
However you are right, you cant compare a Mutant and an Accident whose physiological makeup is totally different then a human to straight line sprinting as we know today.
However what we can take from this is that Quicksilver DNA or powers; if you want to call it that; is what caused him to be born for speed (as somebody said earlier, sprinters are born not made). However he leg presses far less then Hulk, hell, for less then spiderman; yet I feel it would be hard pressed to find somebody debating that spidey is faster then Peitro because he is stronger.
Same thing applies to this, just because spidey has far more strength, and even better reflexes, in a straight line sprint it would only help him at the gun.
Now he could easily leap frog across the field and win, but then, that's not a sprint now is it?
100 meter dash; not 100 meter leap frog.
As soljer said earlier, spideys best straight line feat cant match caps.
Originally posted by PlacidityHowever, building strength in the body, especially the legs does have a big impact. Think about professional sprinters and their amount of muscle mass.
Usain Bolt, 6"5 190lbs. World record holder in the 100m dash.
Kinda slender for his height, but his body is built for fast twitch muscle response and overturn. He doesn't have alot of muscle mass.
I guess you can say he is lean, but he is still very well built. All sprinters do weights to increase power to mass ratio, but try not to become too heavy (like a weight lifter).
The power generated by stronger muscles also help alot with the burst of speed at the starting blocks, and even with driving the arms during the sprint.
Don't get me wrong though, I've been saying that if you don't have the basic speed (determined by genes), having a strong body core and legs aint going to help too much.
Originally posted by Soljer
Simple. Pure strength doesn't directly correlate to top speed. The Hulk is slower than Quicksilver, even though Pietro's leg press is thousands of times lower than Banner's.Spidey's best straight-line running speed feat isn't as impressive as his competitor's, so his only defense is pure speculation. And last I checked, speculation wasn't worth much on the forum.
It's not speculation if there's a rational backing for the opinion. Not only could Spidey propel himself forward at a MUCH faster rate because of his strength, but his faster reflexes mean that he'd be able to get more leg-pumps in per second than anyone else. Faster leg speed + greater strength = easily greater speed. There's a difference between not having a scan and not having a reason. This is just common sense.
Citing QS doesn't really mean much. His powers allow for him to recoil his legs and push off again many thousands of times per second. No one that we're talking about has such powers. But yes, to complete the analogy, Hulk would also be much faster than anyone in this field (Spidey included). He might not be the best out of the blocks, but his top speed would be far beyond anything Pete could muster.
This would be an almost clear sweep by Spiderman (with Beast coming up second, and the rest competing for third).
Reasons are simple: for anything requiring throwing strength, Spidey has the perfect mix of pure strength as well as launch speed. While his ability to throw a discus is not the same as that of (say) Superman or the Hulk, he should still be able to easily throw it well over a several block radius (outdoing any of the other contenders ...and anyways, Superman and Hulk, who could throw the discuss out of the continent, are not competing). This applies to other throw events (e.g. the Javelin).
When it comes to speed, he is also faster than any of them. While someone may bring up Cap or TChala or Batman, none of them have the linear speed that Parker can bring to the game. Remember, relative speed of a spider and all that jazz. Now, I know the Beast can also bound quite quickly, but this is Parker's game again.
Someone brought up wind resistance ....to be honest it is not a factor. The reason athletes do not just jump as high as they can is NOT because of wind shear and resistance effects ....it is BECAUSE they are trying to have the most efficient motion possible. This is why even swimmers strokes (olympic swimmers) are super efficient ....they spend most of their time working on their strokes since dynamics count for much. (By the way, air resistance is very different from wind resistance when it comes to athletics ....you will notice that olympic swimmers will wear several hundred dollar suits to cut down on water drag, but in the 100m running sprint there is not much need for that since the drag coefficient is not the same as it is in water).
Furthermore, unlike a human, Spiderman can leap many dozens of feet with a bound.
Actually, let me not even bother with comics and look at the real world ....at full speed, the African Cheetah actually travels around 21 feet PER bound. When you see it in video it doesn't seem so, but that is around 20-21 feet per bound. Most of the time it is actually in the air.
Anyways, this brings the endurance competitions. 10km is a long distance for many people (I've run it several times, although you should note that before coming to the US I was from Kenya, thus i have an advantage there .....the higher altitudes gave my hemoglobin greater affinity for oxygen carry, as well as giving me more red blood cells in the first place ....it is known as acclimatization). People like Captain America, being peak human and also never tiring, have major advantages here (Cap would be like a 'super' Kenyan or Ethiopian marathon runner). However it would still be Spiderman's event .....his greater speed would carry him further far faster, and while he may tire faster than Steve, it is not as if he is a normal human (again, the guy is not human .....at least not like Aunt May). His rest and stop cycles would be more than Captain (who wouldn't need to rest), but Spiderman's other physical feats would make him win.
Again, this would be a sweep for Parker, with the only real competition being from Beast (again, another not-so-human contender. While people like Captain America may never tire, imagine racing against a greyhound ....no matter how 'super' you are, as long as you are HUMAN you will never defeat the animal. It will run faster than you are, and will tire far less than you can ....in Africa hunting dogs will run full speed for miles without even tiring when they are hunting down antelope. They may not have the speed of a cheetah, but they will run nonstop for miles at full speed with only a hanging tongue to indicate any exertion).
Winner: Spiderman
Silver: Beast.
Bronze: The rest can sort it out amongst themselves.
Originally posted by DigiMark007oh ok I understand
Any of our opinions would be a complete guess, so it's not really important. What is important is that we know the ratio of leg strength between the competitors, and thus know that whatever MPH it would be for Spidey, it would be far less for anyone else on this list.DestinyGuy's knowledge of sprinting is fairly standard, and I've conceded that he has a valid point. But the runners that he is showing are all of very comparable levels of speed, reflexes, and strength. Put someone with 2x the reflexes, 5x the strength on the track with those guys. You wouldn't need perfect form. You wouldn't need to be close to it. And keep in mind, the 2x and 5x are being ridiculously generous to Spidey's competitors. And as stated before, he wouldn't even need proper technique. He can cover close to 100m in a single leap. And not a looping, high leap, which would be needed for the physics-based argument to hold ground, but a straightforward one that just barely clears the hurdles. His rate of accelleration and topspeed would be so far beyond the others that he'd have a few second to wait before the 2nd place finisher came in (sans perhaps Goblin).
It's like having an overhead lifting competition between Thing and Spider-Man, then arguing that the Thing wouldn't use proper lifting technique, while Spidey would, and would thus win. It's equally as preposterous in this thread.
Originally posted by spetznaz
This would be an almost clear sweep by Spiderman (with Beast coming up second, and the rest competing for third).Reasons are simple: for anything requiring throwing strength, Spidey has the perfect mix of pure strength as well as launch speed. While his ability to throw a discus is not the same as that of (say) Superman or the Hulk, he should still be able to easily throw it well over a several block radius (outdoing any of the other contenders ...and anyways, Superman and Hulk, who could throw the discuss out of the continent, are not competing). This applies to other throw events (e.g. the Javelin).
When it comes to speed, he is also faster than any of them. While someone may bring up Cap or TChala or Batman, none of them have the linear speed that Parker can bring to the game. Remember, relative speed of a spider and all that jazz. Now, I know the Beast can also bound quite quickly, but this is Parker's game again.
Someone brought up wind resistance ....to be honest it is not a factor. The reason athletes do not just jump as high as they can is NOT because of wind shear and resistance effects ....it is BECAUSE they are trying to have the most efficient motion possible. This is why even swimmers strokes (olympic swimmers) are super efficient ....they spend most of their time working on their strokes since dynamics count for much. (By the way, air resistance is very different from wind resistance when it comes to athletics ....you will notice that olympic swimmers will wear several hundred dollar suits to cut down on water drag, but in the 100m running sprint there is not much need for that since the drag coefficient is not the same as it is in water).
Furthermore, unlike a human, Spiderman can leap many dozens of feet with a bound.
Actually, let me not even bother with comics and look at the real world ....at full speed, the African Cheetah actually travels around 21 feet PER bound. When you see it in video it doesn't seem so, but that is around 20-21 feet per bound. Most of the time it is actually in the air.
Anyways, this brings the endurance competitions. 10km is a long distance for many people (I've run it several times, although you should note that before coming to the US I was from Kenya, thus i have an advantage there .....the higher altitudes gave my hemoglobin greater affinity for oxygen carry, as well as giving me more red blood cells in the first place ....it is known as acclimatization). People like Captain America, being peak human and also never tiring, have major advantages here (Cap would be like a 'super' Kenyan or Ethiopian marathon runner). However it would still be Spiderman's event .....his greater speed would carry him further far faster, and while he may tire faster than Steve, it is not as if he is a normal human (again, the guy is not human .....at least not like Aunt May). His rest and stop cycles would be more than Captain (who wouldn't need to rest), but Spiderman's other physical feats would make him win.
Again, this would be a sweep for Parker, with the only real competition being from Beast (again, another not-so-human contender. While people like Captain America may never tire, imagine racing against a greyhound ....no matter how 'super' you are, as long as you are HUMAN you will never defeat the animal. It will run faster than you are, and will tire far less than you can ....in Africa hunting dogs will run full speed for miles without even tiring when they are hunting down antelope. They may not have the speed of a cheetah, but they will run nonstop for miles at full speed with only a hanging tongue to indicate any exertion).
Winner: Spiderman
Silver: Beast.
Bronze: The rest can sort it out amongst themselves.
A man after my own heart.
I love your style. Logic is also top. But what I love most is how you integrate real-life science and knowledge into your debates. My favourite debater 😎
(I am not an ass-kisser btw 😆 )
But, I reckon Wolverine will probably take the 10k run from Capt, since he has the healing factor that removes waste products from muscles (e.g lactic acid), which means he can run at a pretty fast pace without tiring for quite a while.
Cap doesn't produce lactic acid period. And assuming roughly similar strength levels for the two of them, Logan weighs more due to his skeleton. Cap in the distance race is probably the only non-Spidey-win possibility in the whole thread. Though I'm of the mind that it's not far enough for Pete to get tired enough to fall behind (which he would eventually, it's just a question of when).
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Cap doesn't produce lactic acid period. And assuming roughly similar strength levels for the two of them, Logan weighs more due to his skeleton. Cap in the distance race is probably the only non-Spidey-win possibility in the whole thread. Though I'm of the mind that it's not far enough for Pete to get tired enough to fall behind (which he would eventually, it's just a question of when).
But Wolverine's enhanced strength (he does have enhanced strength right?) compensates for extra weight he carries. I'm sure Wolverine fans would be quick to show you how fast can be (even though some of it is BS 😂 ).
But then again, if Capt doesn't produce waste products (is that really true or does his body just removes it quickly?), than I guess I'd lean more towards Cap taking it.