I personally don't think that Anakin can defeat Bane in a pure saber competition, thanks (and only thanks) to the orbalisks- considering Anakin's style is basically all-offense, it will be entirely useless against Bane, and seeing as Anakin isn't known for his accuracy... well, you get the point. He will, however, decimate any of the other two within a saber duel. I've already explained why I believe either Yoda or Mace will kill Bane in a lightsaber duel. Sith are toast in lightsaber duel.
That being said, however, here are certain quotes that PROVE that Dooku wasn't 'messing around' with Anakin or whatnot. Anakin beat him, fair and square:
"And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread." - Even though he was holding back, Anakin was pwning Dooku.
"Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace he used for a heart to go supercritical." - Dooku was AFRAID of what would happen if Anakin actually stopped holding back. That's right, afraid.
"No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice." - That's correct. Mid-battle, Dooku decided to go for the kill rather than follow Sidious' orders.
"And through the cross of their blades he saw in Skywalker's eyes the promise of hell, and he felt a sickening presentiment that he already knew the answer to that question. Treachery is the way of the Sith." - Dooku realized that Sidious betrayed him.
That being said, I believe that's enough to confidently say Anakin beat Dooku fair and square.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I personally don't think that Anakin can defeat Bane in a pure saber competition, thanks (and only thanks) to the orbalisks- considering Anakin's style is basically all-offense, it will be entirely useless against Bane, and seeing as Anakin isn't known for his accuracy... well, you get the point. He will, however, decimate any of the other two within a saber duel. I've already explained why I believe either Yoda or Mace will kill Bane in a lightsaber duel. Sith are toast in lightsaber duel.That being said, however, here are certain quotes that PROVE that Dooku wasn't 'messing around' with Anakin or whatnot. Anakin beat him, fair and square:
"And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread." - Even though he was holding back, Anakin was pwning Dooku.
"Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace he used for a heart to go supercritical." - Dooku was AFRAID of what would happen if Anakin actually stopped holding back. That's right, afraid.
"No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice." - That's correct. Mid-battle, Dooku decided to go for the kill rather than follow Sidious' orders.
"And through the cross of their blades he saw in Skywalker's eyes the promise of hell, and he felt a sickening presentiment that he already knew the answer to that question. Treachery is the way of the Sith." - Dooku realized that Sidious betrayed him.
That being said, I believe that's enough to confidently say Anakin beat Dooku fair and square.
Oh my god.
It can't be that hard to understand. Dooku entered the fight with certain orders which didn't allow him to kill or defeat Anakin at any cost. Is that clear so far? Because of that he didn't gave Anakin and Kenobi all he could, wasted a chance to easily kill Anakin and after that taunted the young Jedi to unleash his dark emotions allowed Anakin to emerge victorious - not his skill as it was at that point in time. The unnatural dark side boost he received did the job.
Notice that Nick Gillard said that the only thing that made Anakin better with a lightsaber than Obi-Wan were his new found Dark Side abilities. Without that power boosts, Anakin is equal to Kenobi in terms of force use and lightsaber combat. So. Do you really want to tell me that Obi-Wan Kenobi would be able to defeat the likes of Bane, Kun or Revan [or Dooku] in a lightsaber duel? I hope not. Assuming that Anakin goes into "godlike" mode is nothing more but turning the exception into the rule - the regular state of the individual. Following that line of thought, RotJ Luke is stronger than OT Vader and Padawan Kenobi a better duellist than Darth Maul. I don't think that arguing like that makes much sense.
After watching a season of House and letting his balls drop, Nai Fohl enters the ring once again! It's so good to see you, man.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And now, Ladies and Gentleman, KMC SW VS Forum presents another Episode of "Revenge of the Fanboys".
LOL. Say, aren't you the same Nai Fohl who just practically begged Darth Sexy not to flame him? And you come here with this? No, Nai, no. That simply won't do. Pick an ideology and stick with it, okay? It's either "LOLZ GUNS A BLAZING" or we make our posts respectful. You don't get to straddle both sides of the fence as if it were a Chris Lee cardboard cut out.
And that it was. You can now go and watch our featured film "Bullshit with Gideon" in the next Anakin or Sidious related topic. Thanks.
I understand that English is your native tongue. It's evident from the appalling lack of humor in this diatribe; I guess your wit is literally lost in the translation. Meanwhile, I thought I was just a Sidious fanboy; now it's both him and Anakin? I guess that's still less than your quota of Ancient Sith + Yoda and Dooku, so as long as I'm ahead of the curve, I feel accomplished.
Out of curiosity, have you taken a look at Dooku vs. Sidious recently? Some dude bumped the thread for shits and giggles. I particularly loved your argument how "LOL DOOKU PWNZ SIDZ!"
It makes the situation all the more hilarious, especially when you dare criticise me about fanboyism.
Really Gideon. Why do you always keep forgetting the minor details?
Minor details? So I guess what you mean to say is that none of the following matter in the end?
a) Dooku completely pwned Anakin and Obi-Wan to the point where he simply took Obi-Wan out of the fight while delivering a backkick at Anakin. Did you somehow miss that [b]fact[/B]
a.) Count Dooku was driven back the entire time by Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, was forced to overwhelm Kenobi with the Force rather than disarm him with his LOLZ UBER MAKASHI, and then had his Super Battle Droids fire upon the Jedi in an attempt to save his old ass. Did you somehow miss that, Nai? Or does the German edition cut out the parts you don't like?
b) Nice that you're once again using the RotS Novel as a source which describes a completely different fight.
b.1) According to Matthew Stover (a man whose word I trust more than yours), George Lucas was heavily involved in the editing process of the novelization and played a key role in drafting it. George Lucas > you. Meanwhile, even if it were totally different, narrative and character thoughts displayed in the novelization are just as canon as anything else.
Does Dooku look hard pressed in the movie? Nope.
b.2) Whoa, wait a second, my Aryan brother. You're telling me you can make out the Count's expression, even though most of the duel doesn't take into account his facial features, since they are 100% computer generated? I guess Palpatine really did have to take a shit during his fight with Windu.
Is the duo coming close to defeating him at any given time of the fight? Nope!
b.3) LOLZ THEY SURE ARE! Since, since the first saber clashes, they dominated the fight, pushing Dooku all across the General's quarters. Ironically enough, he was able to push Skywalker and Kenobi back during their duel on Geonosis, but somehow is unable to do so here.
Unfortunately for you, the movie still represents the higher level of canon.
Unfortunately for you, the movie doesn't seem to be your argument's best friend at the moment.
c) If you want to stick to the novels interpretation than [b]do it correctly. Following the novels interpretation, Dooku was not allowed to harm Anakin in any way and was adviced to try and push him over to the Dark Side. Notice: That are two clear disadvantages for Dooku as 1) He wasn't allowed to do all he could and 2) tapping into the Dark Side can bring you quite close to your full potential, as seen, for example, when Luke goes mad in RotJ and overcomes the (without a doubt) more skilled Vader.[/B]
An outright lie. Dooku's own thoughts during the duel in the novelization, once he realized that he was being suckered was "the comedy was over. It was time to kill."
Does kill have another meaning in German? Wouldn't that be ironic.
So Gideon. You can decide now: Either Dooku is still superior to Anakin in terms of lightsaber skills (because he pwned him while Kenobi and Skywalker where double-teaming him) or he lost because he wasn't allowed to go all out and even had to make his opponent stronger by taunting him into using the Dark Side. Or, to give you another way out: You can simply realize that comparing Anakin to Dooku based on that duel in the fashion you always attempt to do it is a grade A, money back guaranteed, steeming and stinking bucket of Canadian horse piss. So. Keep in mind: This is debating and not "Gideon picks everything that supports his opinion and leaves the rest out".
Your familiarity with Canadian horse piss is rather disturbing, but not necessarily surprising. Here's my decision. Count Dooku's alarming egotism prevented him from using the obvious Force advantage and sought to subdue Skywalker through lightsaber skills (his preferred method of fighting) and failed miserably when Skywalker got pissed. Isn't it cool? I found a fourth option!
And there we have it again. Yes. Anakin can turn into an unstoppable force to annihilate somebody who isn't allowed to hurt him, if being properly taunted before that. Or he can simply be outsmarted by an inferior force user and duellist, as happened, when he faced his old master Kenobi. Since the opponents here consist of a tactical mastermind (Revan), a guy that is pretty much invunerable by a lightsaber (Bane) and a dude that wields are completely unique weapon with a unique lightsaber style (Kun), I'd love to see your arguments how Anakin would overcome any of them with "laughable ease".
Where again did Kenobi outsmart Anakin? Being in a better state of mind =/= outsmarting someone.
Oh. And what "evidence" would that be, Gideon? Based on the "evidence" we have, Revan and Kun remained undefeated in lightsaber combat throughout their entire career and dominated their respective eras pretty much (at least in their prime). And Bane is still covered with that nice orbalisk armor.
Oh, well in that case... I forgot that being undefeated in lightsaber combat in one's era, in one's career, and dominated one's respective era clearly means that he or she is better than everyone else in another period. Guess Yoda and Windu kick the shit out of Ragnos. I wish you'd told me that sooner. Would've given me a more efficient way for curbstomping your pro-Ancient Sith arguments
So. I'm waiting for you to come back here and present us evidence how any of the three Sith will be defeated in lightsaber combat with "laughable ease". Or you can take that laughable statement together with your laughable attempts to analyze the source material the resulting laughable opinions, put them on a boat and send them on a nice trip back to Lala-Land. The result might look like that:
Self portrait, Nai? Really not necessary. But I'm pretty sure that's the only way someone would take notice of how you look: you have to force your picture upon them. Nasty.
Originally posted by Gideon
After watching a season of House and letting his balls drop, Nai Fohl enters the ring once again! It's so good to see you, man.
Attempt to be funny or insulting number 243 million. And once more: Failed.
LOL. Say, aren't you the same Nai Fohl who just practically begged Darth Sexy not to flame him? And you come here with this? No, Nai, no. That simply won't do. Pick an ideology and stick with it, okay? It's either "LOLZ GUNS A BLAZING" or we make our posts respectful. You don't get to straddle both sides of the fence as if it were a Chris Lee cardboard cut out.
Did I miss the link to the stuff you've quoted above this comment or does it simply not exist? Gosh! Where did I beg Darth Sexy not to flame me? Suffering from that delusions again, Gideon?
I understand that English is your native tongue.
That would be German.
It's evident from the appalling lack of humor in this diatribe; I guess your wit is literally lost in the translation. Meanwhile, I thought I was just a Sidious fanboy; now it's both him and Anakin? I guess that's still less than your quota of Ancient Sith + Yoda and Dooku, so as long as I'm ahead of the curve, I feel accomplished.
Doesn't it get boring trying to insult people because of a "lack of humor", Gideon? Because that certainly is the case having to read it in pretty much every damn post you produce here.
Out of curiosity, have you taken a look at Dooku vs. Sidious recently? Some dude bumped the thread for shits and giggles. I particularly loved your argument how "LOL DOOKU PWNZ SIDZ!"
Wow. After re-reading the thread, you have once more failed to actually understand what I was posting there? Hilarious. The "You 4 year old opinions, that I've still not been capable of grasping due to my lack of reading comprehension suck" flame attempts do also get boring, Gideon. Especially as they still lack any basis.
It makes the situation all the more hilarious, especially when you dare criticise me about fanboyism.
I "dare"? It doesn't take too much courage to call some teenager a fanboy, Gideon. Especially since, considering you recently claimed that NJO Luke Skywalker can't be ahead of DE Sidious, you don't have much left to argue that you aren't a Sidious fanboy, huh?
a.) Count Dooku was driven back the entire time by Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, was forced to overwhelm Kenobi with the Force rather than disarm him with his LOLZ UBER MAKASHI, and then had his Super Battle Droids fire upon the Jedi in an attempt to save his old ass. Did you somehow miss that, Nai? Or does the German edition cut out the parts you don't like?
Did I miss the sequence when the two Jedi came actually close to defeating Dooku in the lightsaber fight? Apparently he still had enough time to force rape Kenobi, despite the fact that he had two Jedi attacking him. So obviously they weren't even able to give him enough trouble in lightsaber combat to have him focus on that.
b.1) According to Matthew Stover (a man whose word I trust more than yours), George Lucas was heavily involved in the editing process of the novelization and played a key role in drafting it. George Lucas > you. Meanwhile, even if it were totally different, narrative and character thoughts displayed in the novelization are just as canon as anything else.
George Lucas > the novel. Really, Gideon. You want to tell me that character thoughts, which are based on actions that did never happen (movie > novel), can be canon. So Anakin, for example, is hurt by Dooku calling him a "fraud" and "posturing child" despite the fact that, actually, Dooku never did that? Sure...
b.3) LOLZ THEY SURE ARE! Since, since the first saber clashes, they dominated the fight, pushing Dooku all across the General's quarters. Ironically enough, he was able to push Skywalker and Kenobi back during their duel on Geonosis, but somehow is unable to do so here.
Yeah. Right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgPQxebCdjY
0:18 - Dooku smiling after the initial attack, casually taunting Anakin for fun.
0:30 - Dooku parries a simultaneous attack by Obi-Wan and Anakin, using only one hand. Gosh. He's under hard pressure there.
0:32 - Dooku force pushes Kenobi aside as if he is nothing. Pwned.
0:49 - Dooku force rapes Kenobi and casually kicks Anakin into the next wall.
1:03 - Dooku receives a force aided boot into the face, lands on his feet and keeps fighting as if nothing has happened instantly.
1:20 - Dooku locking sabers with Anakin. Notice how Anakin is struggling and moaning while Dooku simply keeps talking as if nothing happens (and hell...Anakin has a freaking artificial arm and is still unable to overpower Dooku physically there).
Yeah. Right. Obi-Wan and Anakin (while getting shitted on by Dooku) are completely dominating the fight. Holy shit.
Unfortunately for you, the movie doesn't seem to be your argument's best friend at the moment.
See above.
An outright lie. Dooku's own thoughts during the duel in the novelization, once he realized that he was being suckered was "the comedy was over. It was time to kill."Does kill have another meaning in German? Wouldn't that be ironic.
Yes. But those thaughts are an reaction to the fact that he gets almost "teamed to death" by Obi-Wan and Anakin multiple times before. Something that doesn't happen in the movie. And after that thought in the novel, he force rapes Kenobi and then taunts Anakin. But notice. In the novel he taunts him by calling him a fraud and a postunring child which is clearly Dun Möch. In the movie he tells him to use his anger and hatred. Hell. Dooku is still trying to convert Anakin to the Dark Side when they lock their sabers in the movie, something that never happens in the novel, because Dooku has already decided that he has to kill Skywalker there.
Yet unfortunatelly, in the RotS commentary, Lucas specifically says that Dooku words there are designed to convert Anakin and not to destabilize him. So, apparently, he didn't want to defeat Anakin there, otherwise it would be utter nonsense to tell him to use his dark feelings.
Count Dooku's alarming egotism prevented him from using the obvious Force advantage and sought to subdue Skywalker through lightsaber skills (his preferred method of fighting) and failed miserably when Skywalker got pissed. Isn't it cool? I found a fourth option!
The point is, Gideon, that by telling Anakin to use his anger and hatred, it was Dooku himself that enabled Anakin (who is still moaning in the saber-lock at that time) to unleash his anger. The only reason Anakin had to "get pissed" was when Dooku owned him and Obi-Wan with the force. But he isn't able to overcome Dooku before Dooku tells him to utilize this emotions. In the novel, Anakin figures that out for himself. In the (higher level of canon) movie version it's Dooku starting the process.
Oh, well in that case... I forgot that being undefeated in lightsaber combat in one's era, in one's career, and dominated one's respective era clearly means that he or she is better than everyone else in another period. Guess Yoda and Windu kick the shit out of Ragnos. I wish you'd told me that sooner. Would've given me a more efficient way for curbstomping your pro-Ancient Sith arguments
Wow. Did it ever occure to you, dear Gideon, that you are applying the same line of thought when it comes to the PT/OT era Jedi and Sith? They are noted as the best of their era - they must be able to easily defeat everybody from previous eras. And "curbstomping" the pro-Ancient Sith arguments? When did that happen? At the second Gideons-dreams-come-true-convention in Lala-Land? As far as I remember, your role in those debates was to post "I agree with Lightsnake" and keep repeating allready defeated arguments like a broken record.
And nice attempt to draw the attention away from the fact that you still didn't present an argument how the Jedi will defeat the Sith in a lightsaber fight with "laughable ease".
Self portrait, Nai? Really not necessary. But I'm pretty sure that's the only way someone would take notice of how you look: you have to force your picture upon them. Nasty.
Aww. Too dumb that they removed the original picture from their site. Here is the one that was once included into the posting:
And no. I don't have to force pictures of myself on people to have them take notice of how I look. They can find pics of me in every dictionary, looking under the key words "awesome", "wow", "God", "superhuman" and "DA MAN"... 😮💨
Originally posted by Borbarad
Attempt to be funny or insulting number 243 million. And once more: Failed.
So, I found myself doubled over in laughter at this opening remark. Allow me to get this straight: you begin this whole ordeal with numerous insults and jabs directed at my person, correct? I mean, come on, Nai. Aren't you the Nazi who styles himself as "da man"? Be man enough to admit that you came here throwing out the verbal assaults. And when I dish them back out, it's suddenly "LOLZ UR ATTEMPT TO BE FUNNY IS STOOPID" and then you pick an (unfunny) arbitrary number? Jesus Christ, this is getting old. You do this every single time, and these lines were much better when ACstyles or Nebaris were using them.
Did I miss the link to the stuff you've quoted above this comment or does it simply not exist? Gosh! Where did I beg Darth Sexy not to flame me? Suffering from that delusions again, Gideon?
Easy, Nai. Such sensitive ego. And, yes, you did whine about DS trying to flame you. Being the victim of a poor upbringing doesn't give you carte blanche to play the victim whenever you like, Nai.
That would be German.
Yeah, left off the "n't" to "is".
Doesn't it get boring trying to insult people because of a "lack of humor", Gideon? Because that certainly is the case having to read it in pretty much every damn post you produce here.
Rehashing opening salvos, criticising someone's sense of humor, and doing so in a remarkably unwitty fashion does not qualify as humor. Seriously, did you shut off the DVD player and read my last six arguments with AC and Nebaris and decide to borrow everyone else's lines?
Wow. After re-reading the thread, you have once more failed to actually understand what I was posting there? Hilarious. The "You 4 year old opinions, that I've still not been capable of grasping due to my lack of reading comprehension suck" flame attempts do also get boring, Gideon. Especially as they still lack any basis.
Why, golly gee, Nai, I figured since you were the one who brought up the whole fanboyism topic, I'd bring up some of your finer moments. Hey, everyone, this is the guy who spearheaded the "LOLZ DOOKU IS SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL, BADASS, AND SMARTER THAN SIDIOUZ" series of jokes that plagued this forum. Come on, Nai. If you're going to get hostile and defensive over your in-character **** ups, don't bring up fanboyism at all. I diagnose you with terminal hypocrisy. Cure? Pull your head out of your ass. Dr. House would be so disappointed.
I "dare"? It doesn't take too much courage to call some teenager a fanboy, Gideon.
Your experience with "handling" teenagers notwithstanding, Nai, it clearly does. You come, we argue, you leave. You watch your season of House, feign a limp, grab a cane (you two are the same age, right?), and wobble back on here as if your presence matters. Once you start getting burned in your little flame war, you wine and go for one of Nebaris's patented approach. He does it a lot better than you.
Especially since, considering you recently claimed that NJO Luke Skywalker can't be ahead of DE Sidious, you don't have much left to argue that you aren't a Sidious fanboy, huh?
LOL. So you do read everything I type on here. Thanks for confirming my theories, Nai. You've been waiting, watching, reading. Desiring to debate me again but oh-so-fearful. And I said that Skywalker didn't generate or demonstrate power to be on par with Sidious's until late NJO and DN. Though I do appreciate your ability to draw conclusions from nothing. It's like magic.
Did I miss the sequence when the [b]two Jedi came actually close to defeating Dooku in the lightsaber fight? Apparently he still had enough time to force rape Kenobi, despite the fact that he had two Jedi attacking him. So obviously they weren't even able to give him enough trouble in lightsaber combat to have him focus on that.[/B]
Is Dooku resistent to lightsabers? Is his cape and outfit made of cortosis? Because you make it sound like they were swinging away and he was either engaging them or not caring at all, when the truth is that he gained a momentary advantage over the two of them. And as I recall, wasn't his ass knocked over a balcony?
George Lucas > the novel. Really, Gideon. You want to tell me that character thoughts, which are based on actions that did never happen (movie > novel), can be canon. So Anakin, for example, is hurt by Dooku calling him a "fraud" and "posturing child" despite the fact that, actually, Dooku never did that? Sure...
Narrative that doesn't necessarily conflict with the movie, Nai. Here I thought Nazis were educated.
Yeah. Right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgPQxebCdjY0:18 - Dooku smiling after the initial attack, casually taunting Anakin for fun.
Right. So, since Darth Sidious was all shits and giggles during his duel with Yoda (and Yoda didn't so much as crack a grin), I guess he obviously owned Yoda!
Your hypocrisy's showing, Nai. Cover it up, please. The rest of us can't handle the toxic exposure you produce.
0:30 - Dooku parries a simultaneous attack by Obi-Wan and Anakin, using only one hand. Gosh. He's under hard pressure there.
Or, gosh, maybe he's using the Force to compensate for his physical inferiority.
Naw. You're right.
0:32 - Dooku force pushes Kenobi aside as if he is nothing. Pwned.
The only thing 'pwned' here is your argument. Given that he would later have his guards attack, it's obvious that Dooku knocked Kenobi aside out of desperation. And no one denied his superiority in the Force.
0:49 - Dooku force rapes Kenobi and casually kicks Anakin into the next wall.
Ah, yes. Casually. Which is why he clearly shows signs of strain by dropping the walkway on Kenobi and is knocked down over the balcony.
1:03 - Dooku receives a force aided boot into the face, lands on his feet and keeps fighting as if nothing has happened instantly.
Force-aided boot to the face? Confirm it was Force-aided and then confirm that it was all macho Dooku and no Force assistance for his recovery.
1:20 - Dooku locking sabers with Anakin. Notice how Anakin is struggling and moaning while Dooku simply keeps talking as if nothing happens (and hell...Anakin has a freaking artificial arm and is still unable to overpower Dooku physically there).
Yes, he makes one grunt and ergo, he must be suddenly gasping for air like an asthmatic. Never mind that he actually does knock Dooku back and that Dooku wasn't talking as if nothing is happening, judged by his pause and grunt of the word "anger".
Yeah. Right. Obi-Wan and Anakin (while getting shitted on by Dooku) are completely dominating the fight. Holy shit.
You're very formulaic in your posts, Nai. Predictability is definitely something you excell in. Holy shit. See? I can do it too.
See above.
I looked at it for all of five seconds before dismantling it.
Yes. But those thaughts are an reaction to the fact that he gets almost "teamed to death" by Obi-Wan and Anakin multiple times before. Something that [b]doesn't happen in the movie. And after that thought in the novel, he force rapes Kenobi and then taunts Anakin. But notice. In the novel he taunts him by calling him a fraud and a postunring child which is clearly Dun Möch. In the movie he tells him to use his anger and hatred. Hell. Dooku is still trying to convert Anakin to the Dark Side when they lock their sabers in the movie, something that never happens in the novel, because Dooku has already decided that he has to kill Skywalker there. [/B]
Right. Sidious says "strike me down!" to Luke Skywalker. Does that mean he really wants to die?
Yet unfortunatelly, in the RotS commentary, Lucas specifically says that Dooku words there are designed to convert Anakin and not to destabilize him. So, apparently, he didn't want to defeat Anakin there, otherwise it would be utter nonsense to tell him to [b]use his dark feelings.[/B]
I want the exact quote.
The point is, Gideon, that by telling Anakin to [b]use his anger and hatred, it was Dooku himself that enabled Anakin (who is still moaning in the saber-lock at that time) to unleash his anger. The only reason Anakin had to "get pissed" was when Dooku owned him and Obi-Wan with the force. But he isn't able to overcome Dooku before Dooku tells him to utilize this emotions. In the novel, Anakin figures that out for himself. In the (higher level of canon) movie version it's Dooku starting the process.[/B]
You have yet to prove it was his intention. And if it was, it makes Dooku all the more the fool.
Wow. Did it ever occure to you, dear Gideon, that you are applying the same line of thought when it comes to the PT/OT era Jedi and Sith? They are noted as the best of their era - they must be able to easily defeat everybody from previous eras. And "curbstomping" the pro-Ancient Sith arguments? When did that happen? At the second Gideons-dreams-come-true-convention in Lala-Land? As far as I remember, your role in those debates was to post "I agree with Lightsnake" and keep repeating allready defeated arguments like a broken record.
Actually, it's not the same thing at all. Statements for Yoda and Palpatine apply to all eras. Likewise, you can keep telling me that the Ragnos4Prez! fanclub wasn't beaten, but Faunus had the balls to admit it. 1.) You're all gone. 2.) It's not even accepted at EoD. 3.) You're so frightened to post here.
And nice attempt to draw the attention away from the [b]fact that you still didn't present an argument how the Jedi will defeat the Sith in a lightsaber fight with "laughable ease".[/B]
You were debating me about Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan, my Nazi friend. Pick an argument first.
Aww. Too dumb that they removed the original picture from their site. Here is the one that was once included into the posting:And no. I don't have to force pictures of myself on people to have them take notice of how I look. They can find pics of me in every dictionary, looking under the key words "awesome", "wow", "God", "superhuman" and "DA MAN"... 😮💨
And there goes all doubts of you trying to be like Greg House. LOL, Nazis don't need to model themselves after fictional TV characters. Especially when they are American and being portrayed by British characters. Doesn't your whole ideology have a problem with those two countries?
So both House and Hitler have a problem with you, Nai. Shame, shame, shame.
Originally posted by Gideon
So, I found myself doubled over in laughter at this opening remark. Allow me to get this straight: you begin this whole ordeal with numerous insults and jabs directed at my person, correct? I mean, come on, Nai. Aren't you the Nazi who styles himself as "da man"? Be man enough to admit that you came here throwing out the verbal assaults. And when I dish them back out, it's suddenly "LOLZ UR ATTEMPT TO BE FUNNY IS STOOPID" and then you pick an (unfunny) arbitrary number? Jesus Christ, this is getting old. You do this every single time, and these lines were much better when ACstyles or Nebaris were using them.
Let me get this straight for you, Gideon: I'm provoking you with ad hominem phrases and you jump on them like a mad muppet because your King-of-the-Ring position in this forum means everything to you. And now look out: I'm just saying "Hey, Joe. You aren't funny." Your reaction: "Nazi!" Can it be that somebody [you] takes the internet a little bit too serious?
Easy, Nai. Such sensitive ego. And, yes, you did whine about DS trying to flame you. Being the victim of a poor upbringing doesn't give you carte blanche to play the victim whenever you like, Nai.
My "poor upbringing" enabled me to properly understand words written down in front of me. Something that you're noble upbringing apparently didn't manage to do. Oh wait. I'm talking to a person who apparently thinks that every German is a Nazi...nfc.
Why, golly gee, Nai, I figured since you were the one who brought up the whole fanboyism topic, I'd bring up some of your finer moments. Hey, everyone, this is the guy who spearheaded the "LOLZ DOOKU IS SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL, BADASS, AND SMARTER THAN SIDIOUZ" series of jokes that plagued this forum. Come on, Nai. If you're going to get hostile and defensive over your in-character **** ups, don't bring up fanboyism at all. I diagnose you with terminal hypocrisy. Cure? Pull your head out of your ass. Dr. House would be so disappointed.
*Yawn* I will point out again, once more, that I neither stated that Dooku is more powerful or smarter than Sidious. If you'd read the thread once more, the argument circled around Dooku being possible able to take Sidious in a lightsaber fight and an "all out match" (winning with his lightsaber abilities). Did you get that now, Gideon?
Your experience with "handling" teenagers notwithstanding, Nai, it clearly does. You come, we argue, you leave. You watch your season of House, feign a limp, grab a cane (you two are the same age, right?), and wobble back on here as if your presence matters. Once you start getting burned in your little flame war, you wine and go for one of Nebaris's patented approach. He does it a lot better than you.
Did it ever occur to you, Gideon, that people can get bored arguing the same stuff over and over again? See. I got bored, checked EoD, found nothing interesting, came here, did a few posts and I may be gone tomorrow. And my presence here certainly doesn't matter - except for you, and - apparently - Advent who enjoyed seeing a post of me here again. So what?
LOL. So you do read everything I type on here. Thanks for confirming my theories, Nai. You've been waiting, watching, reading. Desiring to debate me again but oh-so-fearful. And I said that Skywalker didn't generate or demonstrate power to be on par with Sidious's until late NJO and DN. Though I do appreciate your ability to draw conclusions from nothing. It's like magic.
As a matter of fact, Gideon, I didn't even take a look into this forum for - uh - a damn long period of time. I didn't even waste two seconds of my free-time thinking about you and your pretty thoughts on a B-movie universe. The fact, that you have "theories" about me actually confirms that you waste much more time thinking about me, than I could ever affort to spent with Gideon-related-thoughts. Believe it or not.
Narrative that doesn't necessarily conflict with the movie, Nai. Here I thought Nazis were educated.
Ah. The "Nazi" again. Creative flaming of a person living in Germany, indeed. No. Narrative doesn't necessarily conflict with the movie, Gideon. The point is that narrative does conflict with the movie when character thoughts and so on are based on incidents which are simply not happening in the movie version. It's that easy. Dooku can't be surprised by Anakin and Obi-Wan almost double-teaming him with coordinated manouvers, when nothing like that happens in the movie. He can't develop the thought that it's about to "end this comedy" because he struggles with the two Jedi, while he floors them, taunts them etc.
The only thing 'pwned' here is your argument. Given that he would later have his guards attack, it's obvious that Dooku knocked Kenobi aside out of desperation. And no one denied his superiority in the Force.
Are you willingly ignoring the point, Gideon? The mere fact that he has the time to knock Obi-Wan aside, while he keeps duelling Anakin, actually shows that the Jedi didn't generate enough pressure on him with their lightsaber abilities to keep him from using his force abilities.
Ah, yes. Casually. Which is why he clearly shows signs of strain by dropping the walkway on Kenobi and is knocked down over the balcony.
Which doesn't change the fact that he apparently has enough time to turn his back on Anakin, think about what he could do to Kenobi and use the force (without any distraction from Anakin attacking him from behind) to pwn Kenobi and simultaneously floor Anakin. Either Anakin was standing up there and was sipping a Martini, watching his former master dealing with the battle droids, or he was completely inable to force Dooku to focus on him with his famed saber abilities. I think the latter idea is the more logical one.
Force-aided boot to the face? Confirm it was Force-aided and then confirm that it was all macho Dooku and no Force assistance for his recovery.
He is hit, lands on his feet and is immediately ready to fight again. It doesn't matter if that kick was "force-aided" or not and it doesn't matter if Dooku used no Force assistance for his recovery. The fact is that Anakin, capitalizing on Dooku being busy with burrying Obi-Wan, was not capable to take Dooku out in that situation.
Yes, he makes one grunt and ergo, he must be suddenly gasping for air like an asthmatic. Never mind that he actually does knock Dooku back and that Dooku wasn't talking as if nothing is happening, judged by his pause and grunt of the word "anger".
Yes. He pushes Dooku back after Dooku has told him to use his anger and hatred which - apparently - Anakin does right after that.
Right. Sidious says "strike me down!" to Luke Skywalker. Does that mean he really wants to die?
Nope. But what would have happened if Vader had decide not to ignite his lightsaber to stop the blade of his son, eh? See. Dooku counted (haha) on Sidious. He thought Sidious would stop Anakin from killing him. Instead he was betrayed. Sidious in RotJ did count on Vader to stop Luke - had Vader developed the thought that it might be a good idea to have Luke cut right through Sidious face, Sidious would have been dead. Period.
You have yet to prove it was his intention. And if it was, it makes Dooku all the more the fool.
See quote in the other thread. The only "foolish" act of Dooku here was to thrust his master.
Actually, it's not the same thing at all. Statements for Yoda and Palpatine apply to all eras. Likewise, you can keep telling me that the Ragnos4Prez! fanclub wasn't beaten, but Faunus had the balls to admit it. 1.) You're all gone. 2.) It's not even accepted at EoD. 3.) You're so frightened to post here.
It's not the statements, Gideon. It's the interpretations. You take the quotes and turn them into ultimate and unbeatable weapons. I may explain it to you once again. Sidious can be the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the SW universe. Now...does that mean that Ragnos can't beat him? Nope. Yoda can be the most devastating foe the Dark Side has ever seen. Does that give him a guaranteed victory in a lightsaber fight against Exar Kun? Nope. And that's it. That was the entire point for the entire time. I hope you get it now. But just to answer that:
1) We're all gone because, apparently, we have better things to do with our time than discussing SW related topics. Or read forums in general.
2) I haven't seen a SW related thread on EoD recently. If it's "not accepted" as opinion at EoD (which I doubt), than it's not accepted by the same people who didn't accept it here. Guess who cares...
3) If you can use the search function, Gideon, you would see that I went into discussion arguing against the Ancient Jedi and Sith rather often, which did often lead to rather heated arguments with IKC, Janus and Illustrious which usually ended with us agreeing to disagree.
And you really think that people that already crossed their mid-20s are "frightened" to post here? You should go and do a reality check, mate.
You were debating me about Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan, my Nazi friend. Pick an argument first.
Do you think that dodging the point once more gets you anywhere, Gideon. I'll might point out that people referred to me as "the lawyer" around here, because I usually kept bringing up details to everybodys attention. Here's the detail: You said that the Jedi will defeat the Sith in lightsaber combat with "laughable ease". Present your arguments or rest your case.
And there goes all doubts of you trying to be like Greg House. LOL, Nazis don't need to model themselves after fictional TV characters. Especially when they are American and being portrayed by British characters. Doesn't your whole ideology have a problem with those two countries?So both House and Hitler have a problem with you, Nai. Shame, shame, shame.
Tell me, Gideon. Are you're attempting to "model yourself" after Grievous. He appears in your avatar and your signature. Oh wait. Can it be, that the House picture just is there, because I liked the face with the "Lord save me from stupidity" phrase below it? Oh noez. So keep calling me "House", call me "Nazi" or "Hitler's mom" if you wish to Gideon. Doesn't change the fact that you're out of my life, whenever I hit the "x" on the right top of my browser, while vice versa I haunt you in your dreams. [Enter mad laughter here]
Originally posted by Borbarad
Let me get this straight for you, Gideon: I'm provoking you with ad hominem phrases and you jump on them like a mad muppet because your King-of-the-Ring position in this forum means everything to you. And now look out: I'm just saying "Hey, Joe. You aren't funny." Your reaction: "Nazi!" Can it be that somebody [you] takes the internet a little bit too serious?
You recognize me as "king-of-the-ring" around here? Aw, thanks, Nai. Endorsement from a Nazi. That's about as useful as stock from Enron, though I do appreciate the thought behind it. Anyways, as I said, these statements of yours are rehashed and diluted statements taken from ACstyles and Nebaris. You say I'm not funny, I say you're not funny, you say I'm throwing a fit, I say you're throwing a fit. I'm going to state the obvious, you're going to continue using the same formula that you used however many years ago you joined this forum. It's not like you're covering any new ground here, sport, or making some sort of statement.
My "poor upbringing" enabled me to properly understand words written down in front of me. Something that you're noble upbringing apparently didn't manage to do. Oh wait. I'm talking to a person who apparently thinks that every German is a Nazi...nfc.
Every German a Nazi? No, certainly not. I've got major German ancestry, actually, and it's a language I'm dying to learn (though I hear it's obscenely difficult). No, it's merely a little bait in this war of jabs and jests. Though I'm not surprised you take such offense to it. Who's getting riled, again?
*Yawn* I will point out again, once more, that I neither stated that Dooku is more powerful or smarter than Sidious. If you'd read the thread once more, the argument circled around Dooku being possible able to take Sidious in a lightsaber fight and an "all out match" (winning with his lightsaber abilities). Did you get that now, Gideon?
False, sir.
Originally posted by Borborad
Well...people didn't seem to think that much before they post...Force powers
I don't know if you ever noticed that but there are only three persons that can redirect or absorb force lightning with their hands in the movies: Sidious, Dooku and Yoda. Yoda can absorb it. Sidious can redirect it. Dooku can at least deflect it.
Sidious might be a more powerful force user compared to Dooku (but not "outclassing" him) but Dooku would be able to deflect Sidious force lightning. So it doesn't help Sidious much to be the better force user here.Lightsaber skill
Here Dooku obviously outclasses Sidious.
If you don't believe me: Dooku defeated Mace Windu in TPM times. We can assume that Mace can be slightly better than Dooku in ROTS times. Still Mace disarmed Sidious after what time ? 30 seconds ?And Dooku was able to attack Yoda in AotC were Sidious in ROTS was totaly pushed into defence. Dooku uses the best lightsaber form for a duel were Sidious relies on not completed forms (form VI or VII).
Experience
Dooku is 18 years older than Sidious so he was already a force practitioner when Sidious wasn't even born. He had much more practice in lightsaber use than Sidious (including sparing with Mace and real fights with Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin).Conclusion
Dooku is obviously the superior lightsaber duelist and he can nullify Sidious advantage in force powers. So he would win if there ever would be a fight between them."But Dooku was the apprentice !"
So what ? Did anybody here take a look at Dookus motivation ? Dooku was a political idealist. He wanted to end corruption in the Senate and he thought Sidious could be the one to end it. He although was an aristocrate so I think he hadn't much love for democracy.
He couldn't do what Sidious did because he didn't had the time to gain as much political influence as Sidious already had.So if Dooku ever planed to kill Sidious he would have done that after the events in RotS. And yes...Dooku was manipulated by Sidious but that won't count in a duel between them.
Did it ever occur to you, Gideon, that people can get bored arguing the same stuff over and over again? See. I got bored, checked EoD, found nothing interesting, came here, did a few posts and I may be gone tomorrow. And my presence here certainly doesn't matter - except for you, and - apparently - Advent who enjoyed seeing a post of me here again. So what?
Oh, we both know you won't be gone tomorrow. You're much too addicted to me, Nai. You've practically hit on me with every post.
As a matter of fact, Gideon, I didn't even take a look into this forum for - uh - a damn long period of time. I didn't even waste two seconds of my free-time thinking about you and your pretty thoughts on a B-movie universe. The fact, that you have "theories" about me actually confirms that you waste much more time thinking about me, than I could ever affort to spent with Gideon-related-thoughts. Believe it or not.
Such hostile denial, Nai. Don't get too riled up about it. Besides, your cover's been blown.
Ah. The "Nazi" again. Creative flaming of a person living in Germany, indeed. No. Narrative doesn't necessarily conflict with the movie, Gideon. The point is that narrative does conflict with the movie when character thoughts and so on are based on incidents which are simply not happening in the movie version. It's that easy. Dooku can't be surprised by Anakin and Obi-Wan almost double-teaming him with coordinated manouvers, when nothing like that happens in the movie. He can't develop the thought that it's about to "end this comedy" because he struggles with the two Jedi, while he floors them, taunts them etc.
He was being pushed back by them the whole time, used a desperate Force push to floor Kenobi, had his droids attack (all the while still being driven back by Anakin), and gained a momentary advantage, disabled one, was knocked back by Anakin until he was eventually disarmed and killed. I'd say that that applies.
Are you willingly ignoring the point, Gideon? The mere fact that he has the time to knock Obi-Wan aside, while he keeps duelling Anakin, actually shows that the Jedi didn't generate enough pressure on him with their lightsaber abilities to keep him from using his force abilities.
He wasn't dueling Anakin, Nai. Otherwise he would have been cut in half the second he dropped his guard to lay waste to Kenobi. Unless you think the great Count is saber proof.
Which doesn't change the fact that he apparently has enough time to turn his back on Anakin, think about what he could do to Kenobi and use the force (without any distraction from Anakin attacking him from behind) to pwn Kenobi and simultaneously floor Anakin. Either Anakin was standing up there and was sipping a Martini, watching his former master dealing with the battle droids, or he was completely inable to force Dooku to focus on him with his famed saber abilities. I think the latter idea is the more logical one.
Right. Because thinking to disable Kenobi is clearly a monumentous effort for Dooku regarding time. Is it your goal to make him look like an idiot? Perhaps Anakin was sitting on his ass, overcome by hatred? Perhaps he was building up his strength? Who knows.
He is hit, lands on his feet and is immediately ready to fight again. It doesn't matter if that kick was "force-aided" or not and it doesn't matter if Dooku used no Force assistance for his recovery. The fact is that Anakin, capitalizing on Dooku being busy with burrying Obi-Wan, was not capable to take Dooku out in that situation.
Ah, you brought up the Force-aided thing, not me. But I do appreciate how you changed your mind. And yes, it does matter. He knocked Dooku into an inferior position.
Yes. He pushes Dooku back [b]after Dooku has told him to use his anger and hatred which - apparently - Anakin does right after that. [/B]
Judging from the way that Dooku was being pushed back the entire duel, Anakin was building up the rage and hatred prior to that. I'm sure Dooku's advice, however, just made him even more pissed.
Nope. But what would have happened if Vader had decide not to ignite his lightsaber to stop the blade of his son, eh? See. Dooku counted (haha) on Sidious. He thought Sidious would stop Anakin from killing him. Instead he was betrayed. Sidious in RotJ did count on Vader to stop Luke - had Vader developed the thought that it might be a good idea to have Luke cut right through Sidious face, Sidious would have been dead. Period.
Except Sidious was shackled, so I don't know what exactly Dooku thought he'd do. Unless he's an idiot. The point is that Sith have a tendancy to say shit like that to goad their enemies or to set them off balance, not because they actually are suicidal.
See quote in the other thread. The only "foolish" act of Dooku here was to thrust his master.
Pretty dumb, yeah.
It's not the statements, Gideon. It's the interpretations. You take the quotes and turn them into ultimate and unbeatable weapons. I may explain it to you once again. Sidious can be the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the SW universe. Now...does that mean that Ragnos can't beat him? Nope. Yoda can be the most devastating foe the Dark Side has ever seen. Does that give him a guaranteed victory in a lightsaber fight against Exar Kun? Nope. And that's it. That was the entire point for the entire time. I hope you get it now. But just to answer that:
I take quotes and turn them into ultimate and unbeatable weapons? Thank you. Though, of course, you try to save face with the any given Sunday rule. Curious how you tend to ignore it for this situation, though.
1) We're all gone because, apparently, we have better things to do with our time than discussing SW related topics. Or read forums in general.
Yes, that's why you created a whole new set for just that purpose. Jesus, Nai, you'll have to do better.
2) I haven't seen a SW related thread on EoD recently. If it's "not accepted" as opinion at EoD (which I doubt), than it's not accepted by the same people who didn't accept it here. Guess who cares...
I've seen statements by Deception, the biggest Ragnos fanboy I've ever seen. He's totally unwilling to debate it here or there. He knows he can't prove the Ragnos4Prez! to be correct.
3) If you can use the search function, Gideon, you would see that I went into discussion arguing against the Ancient Jedi and Sith rather often, which did often lead to rather heated arguments with IKC, Janus and Illustrious which usually ended with us agreeing to disagree.
More often than them, Nai, which doesn't say much.
And you really think that people that already crossed their mid-20s are "frightened" to post here? You should go and do a reality check, mate.
It was a provocation, man. I'm curious, though... can I get a list of things that you say that are baiting and things that are serious? Because you react so differently to some things I say, and I don't want to hurt your feelings.
Do you think that dodging the point once more gets you anywhere, Gideon. I'll might point out that people referred to me as "the lawyer" around here, because I usually kept bringing up details to everybodys attention. Here's the detail: You said that the Jedi will defeat the Sith in lightsaber combat with "laughable ease". Present your arguments or rest your case.
Nai, I'm not dodging the issue. I'm telling you how this is going to be. You're going to decide if we're going to debate Anakin vs. Dooku or you can decide if we're going to debate the purpose of the thread. I'm not going to debate both, simultaneously. You will pick one and I'll happily argue this. Though, a Nazi with reading comprehension would point out that I said "laughable ease" before I remembered Bane had his orbalisks.
Tell me, Gideon. Are you're attempting to "model yourself" after Grievous. He appears in your avatar and your signature. Oh wait. Can it be, that the House picture just is there, because I liked the face with the "Lord save me from stupidity" phrase below it? Oh noez. So keep calling me "House", call me "Nazi" or "Hitler's mom" if you wish to Gideon. Doesn't change the fact that you're out of my life, whenever I hit the "x" on the right top of my browser, while vice versa I haunt you in your dreams. [Enter mad laughter here]
No, though I'm flattered you compare me to Grievous. Tactical genius with a great reputation? Could be worse. I don't model my entire personality after him, though, as you do with House. Come on Nai. You've been exposed.
Originally posted by Gideon
You recognize me as "king-of-the-ring" around here? Aw, thanks, Nai. Endorsement from a Nazi. That's about as useful as stock from Enron, though I do appreciate the thought behind it.
Apparently you have forgotten that I live in Europe, Gideon. We have a long lasting tradition when it comes down to ship kings into the afterlive with creative methods. But I'm really surprised you like the thought of being Peter III, which is visited by Alexei Orlow. Or would you enjoy a little bit of Spanish history more? You could be Peter I. and I will assume the role of Henry II.
Every German a Nazi? No, certainly not. I've got major German ancestry, actually, and it's a language I'm dying to learn (though I hear it's obscenely difficult). No, it's merely a little bait in this war of jabs and jests. Though I'm not surprised you take such offense to it. Who's getting riled, again?
Well, Gideon. As I told you many times before, you don't have the slightest idea what "flaming" is. A hint: It's not about to throw a series of random insults at the opponent, no, it shall be done in a way that enables the opponent to laugh his ass off while getting insulted. And since you keep LOLing here, I guess I'm doing that job far better than yourself. But well...we both know that this is the status quo. You do something...I come and do it better. The destiny of the everlasting inferior.
False, sir.
Excuse me, Gideon. May I point out for you once again what I, according to your humble oppinion, should have said? Let me refresh your memory.
"LOLZ DOOKU IS SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL, BADASS, AND SMARTER THAN SIDIOUZ"
Ah well. Now let's have a look at the things you've quoted. What do I read there? "Sidious might be a more powerful force user compared to Dooku". Interresting, isn't it? The exact opposite of what you've claimed I've said. And the rest? Surprise. It's exactly what I've claimed to have written down in the text. And that is that Dooku would be able to overcome Sidious using his lightsaber. And now? Since you don't have the ability to proof that Dooku can't block Sidious lightning (no, you can't) and since you also can't proof that Sidious would be able to take Dooku with a lightsaber (considering that Dooku was ahead of Mace Windu in that department who, in turn, was able to stalemate Sidious with his lightsaber abilities only), I wonder what you have to say, Gideon?
So what have you archieved by digging out a three year old (!) thread, with the exception to demonstrate your inability to read and the inability to "own" me with that?
Oh, we both know you won't be gone tomorrow. You're much too addicted to me, Nai. You've practically hit on me with every post.
You think that is the case, Gideon? You probably shouldn't talk about "addiction", considering that you are the guy here, who's profile is littered with attacks on Janus and IKC (even though they didn't come here fore years). Apparently your latent hatred on the people called "Antedeluvians" is consuming you from the inside. And I can totally understand that. After all they (we?) have used any possible opportunity to make you look like a fool. And now I visit again and do the same. What a tragedy.
And naturally I'm hitting you with almost every post. As you think of no end of yourself and possess an immeasurable ego, you simply are the biggest target around here.
Such hostile denial, Nai. Don't get too riled up about it. Besides, your cover's been blown.
Hate to burst your bubble, there, Gideon, but the only cover which has been blown is your own. You can freely admit that you're just a squalid dwarf among giants, who has managed to climp on their shoulders and, possible, look a little bit farther than they could. And because of that, he does now think, he is greater than those titans. Ironically, you're still the same pitiful vermin you always were, that is just allowed to enjoy a bit of fresh air and sunlight, because the gods are on vacation recently.
He was being pushed back by them the whole time, used a desperate Force push to floor Kenobi, had his droids attack (all the while still being driven back by Anakin), and gained a momentary advantage, disabled one, was knocked back by Anakin until he was eventually disarmed and killed. I'd say that that applies.
I have to say that it's kind of funny, how the same person, which explained two posts ago, that it is impossible to tell what Dooku was feeling or thinking, now steps in here and tells me the guy has been desperate. Can you please stop contradicting yourself?
And please. Dooku is fighting two Jedi. Despite of that he still manages to take one of them out for a short time first (force pushing Kenobi) and finally simultaneously floors them with a single demonstration of his superior force abilities. Yet, somehow, despite of those facts, it was them who were controlling the fight?
He wasn't dueling Anakin, Nai. Otherwise he would have been cut in half the second he dropped his guard to lay waste to Kenobi. Unless you think the great Count is saber proof.
Sure, Gideon. First he is "pushed back by them the whole time" and now Anakin is taking another time-out in the fight, maybe to enjoy his second breakfest, while Dooku force pushs Kenobi out of the match. So Anakin is simply watching instead of attacking the (somehow distracted) Sith Lord? Is that now a hint to the overwhelming teamwork of the two Jedi or just a testament to Anakin's superior abilities in lightsaber combat?
Right. Because thinking to disable Kenobi is clearly a monumentous effort for Dooku regarding time. Is it your goal to make him look like an idiot? Perhaps Anakin was sitting on his ass, overcome by hatred? Perhaps he was building up his strength? Who knows.
I’ve got to be honest. I’m confused, Sasquatch. What is it now? Is Anakin constantly driving back Dooku with his supposed uber lightsaber skill, just taking a timeout here and there to allow Dooku to unleash his force ownage, or can it be, that he simply isn't good enough to built up constant pressure on the Sith Lord?
Ah, you brought up the Force-aided thing, not me. But I do appreciate how you changed your mind. And yes, it does matter. He knocked Dooku into an inferior position.
Yes, after Dooku wasted almost 10 seconds with dropping the nice metal structure on the – already knocked out – Kenobi. So whoopie-di-doo. Anakin managed to knock somebody into an inferior position who wasn't even looking at him because he was busy with unleashing force ownage on Kenobi? Impressive.
Judging from the way that Dooku was being pushed back the entire duel, Anakin was building up the rage and hatred prior to that. I'm sure Dooku's advice, however, just made him even more pissed.
Can we please skip the day-trip to Unnecessary Land and instead simply concede, that Anakin in his normal, regular and every day shape is in no way able to match Dooku with a lightsaber?
Quite frankly is simply idiotic to discuss Anakin's lightsaber abilities based on a situation in which he had a reason to freak out, was then told to use the anger and hatred possibly building him throughout the fight [instead of attempting to keep them under control, like he always did before]. Because the odds of that happening in another lightsaber duel that he enters are roughly on par with me finding the Loch Ness monster in my bathtub. And without that, following Nick Gillards rating of the lightsaber duellists in the SW universe, he isn't more proficient with the weapon than Kenobi. Do you also believe that Kenobi would be able to win a lightsaber duel against Dooku [or Kun, Bane, Revan]?
Except Sidious was shackled, so I don't know what exactly Dooku thought he'd do. Unless he's an idiot. The point is that Sith have a tendancy to say shit like that to goad their enemies or to set them off balance, not because they actually are suicidal.
Oh yes. Now the guy that, in your eyes, without a doubt, is the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the SW universe is stopped by handcuffs, because it fits your argument. And I still don't know where you get the "suicidal" from. Dooku had survived Anakin and Kenobi together and even managed to floor them both with his abilities. So why, please tell me, should he assume that Skywalker alone would be able to defeat him – using the Dark Side or not?
I think what Dooku expected when taunting Anakin was that he would go through another outburst of emotions, possible attacking him with uncontrolled anger. A situation that Dooku could have managed with his fencing abilities and his superior force powers (and possible back-up he expected from Sidious). And suddenly he was confronted with an individual using the Dark Side in a controlled fashion, which gave him a boost in skill that Dooku hadn't expected.
I take quotes and turn them into ultimate and unbeatable weapons? Thank you. Though, of course, you try to save face with the any given Sunday rule. Curious how you tend to ignore it for this situation, though.
I was thinking about "ultimate and unbeatable weapons" like the Death Star, Gideon, which tend to get vaporized by small space-vessels. And I ignore the "any given sunday rule" for what situation, exactly?
Over the time-span of multiple years, despite the fact that several people did throw the fact right into your face, you've constantly ignored that none of the quotes you were capable of bringing about Sidious, still didn't have the effect to make him the unbeatable God of all Sith Lords. See. He might be the "most powerful one" or the "best Dark Side user" with the "greatest force knowledge" and so on and so forth. Is he also the best when it comes down to mano-a-mano combat? You don't know. Is he able to deal with amulet/sceptre blasts? You don't know. Is he familiar with every damn force ability spawned by the ancient Sith which they usually kept for themselves? You can't tell. So what? I can simply say that Sadow will annihilate Sidious using his amulets in the matter of seconds, and everything you can say against that is: "No. I don't think so", and list the quotes once more, which can do almost everything – except for proving that Sidious can take the blast of a Sith amulet. And of course I could state that Ragnos might be 99,5 % of Sidious in terms of force ablities, but 200 % better in armed combat. Who's going to win an all out duel? See? All you have archieved here is gathering ammunition for arguing against a great void filled with speculations without ever reaching any conclusion. If you're lucky, your attempts to do so will once make it into the "Almost Magazine".
Yes, that's why you created a whole new set for just that purpose. Jesus, Nai, you'll have to do better.
Gosh, Gideon. Wasn't you the guy that used any possible opportunity for EoD-bashing in the famed "Oh look. There is almost nobody posting there"-fashion? Yes? Well. Can it be that your "You build a new forum to discuss there" somehow colides with your usual "Look. Nobody there" rants? In fact, taking a look at the Arena Section, the last thread putting two individuals from the SW universe against each other, was started a year ago.
I've seen statements by Deception, the biggest Ragnos fanboy I've ever seen. He's totally unwilling to debate it here or there. He knows he can't prove the Ragnos4Prez! to be correct.
Did we just slip into some alternate dimension where I actually give a flying ducky about what Deception says or does?
As a matter of fact, the inside scoop is this: You can call out people for not being able to proof their opinions to be correct all day long, which doesn't change the fact that you're equally inable to do the same for your opinions. The only way to definetly proof that character X is able to beat character Y is to have some source which includes a fight between those two characters. And even then, considering the LFL-policy of not tossing out "power level charts" or make any "clear cuts" in the comparance of characters (especially from different eras) and the general setting of fights in the SW universe, people could still keep arguing about the issue without reaching any conclusion.
More often than them, Nai, which doesn't say much.
Ah well. Do you still suffer from the delusion that I do or did discuss my personal opinions here?
It was a provocation, man. I'm curious, though... can I get a list of things that you say that are baiting and things that are serious? Because you react so differently to some things I say, and I don't want to hurt your feelings.
I give you a hint: If you should ever "hurt my feelings", Supergirl, I'll verbally break you down into so many different pieces, that even my grandmother, who can do a 1,000 piece puzzle of clear blue sky in less than an hour, will never be able to finish putting you back together again, even when she does go back in time to when her vision was perfect. But this will never happen, because on every occasion you're attempting to throw some insults in my direction, I get one of the two following visions in my head: a) Mr.Ed attempting to curse people in foreign languages; b) a pimpled teenage boy shouting at his computer and jumping up and down in front of his desk like a mad monkey on speed. Both are far too entertaining and funny to allow me to get angry before I can laugh my ass off.
But as general advice: I take nothing, and that means N-O-T-H-I-N-G, in this forum seriously and I act according to that rule. If you want quite and peaceful conversation, you can have it via PM - this here is the place for entertainment.
Nai, I'm not dodging the issue. I'm telling you how this is going to be. You're going to decide if we're going to debate Anakin vs. Dooku or you can decide if we're going to debate the purpose of the thread. I'm not going to debate both, simultaneously. You will pick one and I'll happily argue this. Though, a Nazi with reading comprehension would point out that I said "laughable ease" before I remembered Bane had his orbalisks.
Oh looky. You're dodging the issue once again. What effect it has on Kun and Revan, that you did take Bane's orbalisk into consideration now? None? Great. So I'd still love to see your arguments for Revan and Kun being defeated with "laughable ease" by any of the three Jedi here in a lightsaber fight. In case that this kind of "multitasking" is too much for your brain you can simply admit that, instead of talking around the issue again and again.
No, though I'm flattered you compare me to Grievous. Tactical genius with a great reputation?
I was more thinking about him being a coward that runs away from every confrontation and hides behind entire armies.
Could be worse. I don't model my entire personality after him, though, as you do with House. Come on Nai. You've been exposed.
Aren't you the guy that told me two postings ago that I'm certainly not like House? Gosh. Your not only inable to deliver sound arguments, you can't even come up with flames that don't contradict eachother. Until you finally manage to do that, you can stop bugging me, because I find your particular brand of psychobablry about as useful and about as effective as fairy dust. Not to mention that it is about as entertaining as staring at a test pattern.
I'm going to dispense with all the flaming and jabbing here, Nai. Because now, you've been caught and there's no reason in perpetuating this any longer. But I am looking forward to your responses.
On the subject of Darth Sidious versus Count Dooku:
Your claim is that you originally said on that thread that Count Dooku "might" be able to defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel and that he "might" be able to defeat Sidious in an all out match. I've taken the liberty of posting what you actually said:
Originally posted by Borborad
Well...people didn't seem to think that much before they post...Force powers
I don't know if you ever noticed that but there are only three persons that can redirect or absorb force lightning with their hands in the movies: Sidious, Dooku and Yoda. Yoda can absorb it. Sidious can redirect it. Dooku can at least deflect it.
Sidious might be a more powerful force user compared to Dooku (but not "outclassing" him) but Dooku would be able to deflect Sidious force lightning. So it doesn't help Sidious much to be the better force user here.Lightsaber skill
Here Dooku obviously outclasses Sidious.
If you don't believe me: Dooku defeated Mace Windu in TPM times. We can assume that Mace can be slightly better than Dooku in ROTS times. Still Mace disarmed Sidious after what time ? 30 seconds ?And Dooku was able to attack Yoda in AotC were Sidious in ROTS was totaly pushed into defence. Dooku uses the best lightsaber form for a duel were Sidious relies on not completed forms (form VI or VII).
Experience
Dooku is 18 years older than Sidious so he was already a force practitioner when Sidious wasn't even born. He had much more practice in lightsaber use than Sidious (including sparing with Mace and real fights with Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin).Conclusion
Dooku is obviously the superior lightsaber duelist and he can nullify Sidious advantage in force powers. So he would win if there ever would be a fight between them."But Dooku was the apprentice !"
So what ? Did anybody here take a look at Dookus motivation ? Dooku was a political idealist. He wanted to end corruption in the Senate and he thought Sidious could be the one to end it. He although was an aristocrate so I think he hadn't much love for democracy.
He couldn't do what Sidious did because he didn't had the time to gain as much political influence as Sidious already had.So if Dooku ever planed to kill Sidious he would have done that after the events in RotS. And yes...Dooku was manipulated by Sidious but that won't count in a duel between them.
...Essentially, you completely lied about what you claimed to have said. In the quoted diatribe, you make it clear that there is no doubt in your mind that Count Dooku would emerge victorious over Darth Sidious in any setting, all the while refusing to acknowledge his superiority in the Force. Now, of course, we know that this is all dogshit anyway; Lucas's stance on the matter is that Dooku is lumped in "with Maul", in that he never even had the potential to become more powerful than Darth Sidious.
Ah well. Now let's have a look at the things you've quoted. What do I read there? "Sidious might be a more powerful force user compared to Dooku". Interresting, isn't it? The exact opposite of what you've claimed I've said. And the rest? Surprise. It's exactly what I've claimed to have written down in the text. And that is that Dooku would be able to overcome Sidious using his lightsaber. And now? Since you don't have the ability to proof that Dooku can't block Sidious lightning (no, you can't) and since you also can't proof that Sidious would be able to take Dooku with a lightsaber (considering that Dooku was ahead of Mace Windu in that department who, in turn, was able to stalemate Sidious with his lightsaber abilities only), I wonder what you have to say, Gideon?So what have you archieved by digging out a three year old (!) thread, with the exception to demonstrate your inability to read and the inability to "own" me with that?
Yoda was able to subdue Dooku's lightning on Geonosis without any visible effort. Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to channel Dooku's lightning into his lightsaber without any visible effort (something that Anakin Skywalker replicated in their duel on Tatooine in Star Wars: The Clone Wars novel. In contrast, Yoda was overpowered during the opening salvo in the Chancellor's office and knocked unconscious and showed remarkable physical strain in holding the lightning at bay during the final moments of their fight. Also in contrast, Yoda was disarmed handily by a single gout of the Sith Lord's lightning, despite the fact that Yoda was able to augment his physical strength to ridiculous proportions and even broke lightsaber locks with Palpatine in their duel; Mace Windu, despite the metaphysical properties of Vaapad allowing him to channel the lightning into and back out of his lightsaber, was nearly killed by his own blade under the force of the Emperor's lightning, despite the fact that he outmassed Palpatine, had proper leverage, and was capable of augmenting his physical strength to utterly annihilate an army of Super Battle Droids and fight on even footing with Kar Vastor. So, actually, even though it isn't my burden to disprove, all evidence points to Dooku being unable to contend with Darth Sidious's Force lightning.
On the subject of Darth Sidious versus the Ancient Sith
Originally posted by Borborad
Over the time-span of multiple years, despite the fact that several people did throw the fact right into your face, you've constantly ignored that none of the quotes you were capable of bringing about Sidious, still didn't have the effect to make him the unbeatable God of all Sith Lords. See. He might be the "most powerful one" or the "best Dark Side user" with the "greatest force knowledge" and so on and so forth. Is he also the best when it comes down to mano-a-mano combat? You don't know. Is he able to deal with amulet/sceptre blasts? You don't know. Is he familiar with every damn force ability spawned by the ancient Sith which they usually kept for themselves? You can't tell. So what? I can simply say that Sadow will annihilate Sidious using his amulets in the matter of seconds, and everything you can say against that is: "No. I don't think so", and list the quotes once more, which can do almost everything – except for proving that Sidious can take the blast of a Sith amulet. And of course I could state that Ragnos might be 99,5 % of Sidious in terms of force ablities, but 200 % better in armed combat. Who's going to win an all out duel? See? All you have archieved here is gathering ammunition for arguing against a great void filled with speculations without ever reaching any conclusion. If you're lucky, your attempts to do so will once make it into the "Almost Magazine".
Once again, your hypocrisy has been exposed, Nai. You refuse to apply the "any given Sunday" conditions to any arena but until it pertains to Sidious. You have no problem stating that "Character X" would crush "Character Y" even though the battles we debate are purely speculative in nature. I appreciate the attorney-esque approach to maneuvering through loopholes, but this one won't work. While we all make room for the fact that it is possible for an inferior character to defeat the superior one, conditions have to be proper for such an event. Meaning, as common sense dictates, the more powerful character will be pronounced winner unless there are noticeable conditions or circumstances (i.e. Windu's Vaapad, amulet blasts, ect.).
Likewise, I will also point out that you once refused to accept statements of Palpatine being the strongest. Now you do, of course. But so do Janus and the rest. But it practically pains you to admit it.
Did we just slip into some alternate dimension where I actually give a flying ducky about what Deception says or does?As a matter of fact, the inside scoop is this: You can call out people for not being able to proof their opinions to be correct all day long, which doesn't change the fact that you're equally inable to do the same for your opinions. The only way to definetly proof that character X is able to beat character Y is to have some source which includes a fight between those two characters. And even then, considering the LFL-policy of not tossing out "power level charts" or make any "clear cuts" in the comparance of characters (especially from different eras) and the general setting of fights in the SW universe, people could still keep arguing about the issue without reaching any conclusion.
That's obvious, Nai. As I said, the battles we debate are totally speculative, but that doesn't stop any of us from saying "Character X would totally crush Character Y", unless you button all of your entries here with the "any given Sunday" rule. You don't. So, again, don't be obtuse by trying to whip it out here to save face.
If you want to slide in there that the quotes were taken from three years ago and you've changed your minds, then be like House and have the balls to admit that you were wrong.
On the subject of IKC, Janus, and my profile
You think that is the case, Gideon? You probably shouldn't talk about "addiction", considering that you are the guy here, who's profile is littered with attacks on Janus and IKC (even though they didn't come here fore years). Apparently your latent hatred on the people called "Antedeluvians" is consuming you from the inside. And I can totally understand that. After all they (we?) have used any possible opportunity to make you look like a fool. And now I visit again and do the same. What a tragedy.
I've simply done what they themselves have done in the past. Janus's profile is a testament to his self-glorification and his disdain for others. Why should you all be exempt from similar treatment? I've simply taken statements you've all made (i.e. IKC taking DS to task for trolling and yet demonstrating the same conduct in the span of five minutes and Janus's pre-PT bias that compelled him to make statements like "BANDON > KENOBI!"😉. Don't bother trying to save their reputations or act like I'm picking on them. I've simply done what they've done, except mine show how stupid a lot of the things they have said and done are. We all poke fun at it.
On the subject of egotism
Originally posted by Borborad
And naturally I'm hitting you with almost every post. As you think of no end of yourself and possess an immeasurable ego, you simply are the biggest target around here.
give you a hint: If you should ever "hurt my feelings", Supergirl, I'll verbally break you down into so many different pieces, that even my grandmother, who can do a 1,000 piece puzzle of clear blue sky in less than an hour, will never be able to finish putting you back together again, even when she does go back in time to when her vision was perfect.
Well, Gideon. As I told you many times before, you don't have the slightest idea what "flaming" is. A hint: It's not about to throw a series of random insults at the opponent, no, it shall be done in a way that enables the opponent to laugh his ass off while getting insulted. And since you keep LOLing here, I guess I'm doing that job far better than yourself. But well...we both know that this is the status quo. You do something...I come and do it better. The destiny of the everlasting inferior.
Hate to burst your bubble, there, Gideon, but the only cover which has been blown is your own. You can freely admit that you're just a squalid dwarf among giants, who has managed to climp on their shoulders and, possible, look a little bit farther than they could. And because of that, he does now think, he is greater than those titans. Ironically, you're still the same pitiful vermin you always were, that is just allowed to enjoy a bit of fresh air and sunlight, because the gods are on vacation recently.
Don't lecture me on egotism, Nai. This is the sort of thing that makes appearances in my profile, for the record. The same thing I did to IKC. I'm sure House makes egotism and narcissism look cool, but it's not.