The name Allah

Ok so, I was watching a little discussion and thought I'd post some of the questions raised here- it was a question put to a panel of a Muslim Teacher and a Christian Theologian.

Question: God's name in the Koran is totally different from his name in the Jewish Scripture and the Bible, does this create a question over the authenticity of the Koran.

Christian: Yes it does, because we cannot find a name for God in the Koran beyond the second century BC. Therefore its a very new name, theres no historical evidence that supports it so, we have to go back to the older scriptures(Old Testament) to find God's name. God gives his name to Moses YAHWEH. This name never appears in the Koran, however all the prophets used this name when discussing God (in English bibles where you see LORD this is were the name YAWEH is said) Why did Muhammad not know this name? He is meant to be the greatest of all prophets yet he didn't know Gods name? The only name he knows is a arabic name, a generic name which means nothing. Allah is the same as Elohim a generic name- however Moses rejected the generic name and asked God his real name, which he gave as YAHWEH.

The Muslim teacher did not comment and went on to answer another question about Salvation in Islam.

Opinions?

Who says Mohammed didn't know it? Arabia at the time had a sizeable Jewish population, I'm sure he probably did.

The reason the word "yahweh" doesn't appear in the Koran, is because it was written in Arabic. I own an English Koran, and guess what? Niether "yahweh" nor "allah" are in it. Only the word "God".

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Who says Mohammed didn't know it? Arabia at the time had a sizeable Jewish population, I'm sure he probably did.

The reason the word "yahweh" doesn't appear in the Koran, is because it was written in Arabic. I own an English Koran, and guess what? Niether "yahweh" nor "allah" are in it. Only the word "God".

So, why did he never use God's name?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
So, why did he never use God's name?

Because he didn't want to. He probably felt like using the Arabic version of the word god ( he was preaching to alot of Arabs). QM already kinda answered your question.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Because he didn't want to. He probably felt like using the Arabic version of the word god ( he was preaching to alot of Arabs). QM already kinda answered your question.

Hmm...I dunno, if I was preaching to an Arabic Audience I would still use my name...as in my personal name. My name is Gavin. God's name is YAHWEH...all prophets before Muhammad used that name but Muhammad didn't...is it possible he didn't use the name because he didn't know it and/or its significance?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Hmm...I dunno, if I was preaching to an Arabic Audience I would still use my name...as in my personal name. My name is Gavin. God's name is YAHWEH

You might but that depends. Some people are called Mohammed but people in the West call them Moe. Who decides what Gods true name is aren't there lots of cultures where people have different names for God?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

...all prophets before Muhammad used that name but Muhammad didn't...is it possible he didn't use the name because he didn't know it and/or its significance?

Its just a name. Teachings are more important than names.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You might but that depends. Some people are called Mohammed but people in the West call them Moe. Who decides what Gods true name is aren't there lots of cultures where people have different names for God?

But Muhammad didn't use any name for God...he just called him God...he used an Arabic noun "allah" not a name...why did he not do what all prophets did before him and use God's name? Is it possible that it is because he didn't know the name?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its just a name.

Oooo...erroneous.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Teachings are more important than names.

Teachings mean nothing if there is no source.

Can I get some clearification on the actual question being asked in this thread?

Originally posted by Devil King
Can I get some clearification on the actual question being asked in this thread?

Does the use of Allah, rather than YHWH, to refer to God make it reasonable to question the Koran's authenticity?

isn't it related to the same philosophy that prohibits the drawing of Mohammed?

ie, the word would literally be a depiction of Allah

Originally posted by inimalist
isn't it related to the same philosophy that prohibits the drawing of Mohammed?

ie, the word would literally be a depiction of Allah

I'm sorry, I don't understand why that would matter

making a name for God in Islam is idolatry, be it by Mohammed or a regular every day Muslim.

Christians and Muslims have different rules, and in Islamic theology these conflicts are explained by each previous revelation being only incomplete, whereas the one to Mohammed got the complete one.

I guess I don't understand the question... God in Islam doesn't have a name because they consider it idolotry and Muslims and Christians have different beliefs about this...

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm sorry, I don't understand why that would matter

making a name for God in Islam is idolatry, be it by Mohammed or a regular every day Muslim.

Christians and Muslims have different rules, and in Islamic theology these conflicts are explained by each previous revelation being only incomplete, whereas the one to Mohammed got the complete one.

I guess I don't understand the question... God in Islam doesn't have a name because they consider it idolotry and Muslims and Christians have different beliefs about this...

Yet, if the God in Islam is the God of Abraham, Moses and so on then he does have a name, but it is never mentioned although it is mentioned by all the other prophets...does this mean that Muhammad never knew the name?

actually, from a Muslim narrative, the name given to God in previous scriptures is part of an incomplete revelation.

One Mohammad received the revelations, it rendered it moot.

The God may have the same name (although this is a weird theoretical point to make) but in Islam, one is not supposed to refer to the name.

so:

A) he has the same name, but in Islam the mention of a name to refer to God is idolatry, so no one calls him by it

B) The name given in previous scripture is part of an incomplete doctrine. For some reason, Allah needed to make people think he had another name in order to prepare them for the final revelation.

In either of these, it is possible for him to be the god of Jew, Christians and Muslims, though remember, to a Muslim, what the other faiths believe is only partially accurate, so because Christians or Jews have different beliefs about the name of god, it doesn't make it not the same God of Islam. Much like God in the NT differs from god of the OT, yet both Jews and Christians believe they worship the same god.

Anyways, isn't the idea that they worship the same being a memetic argument and not a spiritual one?

Not at all, Muslims believe their God is the God of Jesus and Abraham etc, its just they got it wrong.

So, where is the evidence that they cannot use his name? From the Koran I mean...(or the other teachings)

holy ****

ok dude, like, I would also assume you don't grow a beard and pray 5 times a day

it shouldn't be a surprise at all that you don't follow the same beliefs as a muslim.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Teachings mean nothing if there is no source.

Not really the most important things is that the teaching are civilised.

Originally posted by inimalist
making a name for God in Islam is idolatry, be it by Mohammed or a regular every day Muslim.

Actually I think that could be wrong. I don't think its wrong to give God a name in Islam but whats wrong is to translate his names and give it an exact meaning.

I mean you can call God...God but if you ask a sunni muslim what Gods name is they will say he has 99 names but we don't know what the exact meaning is.

Originally posted by inimalist

so:

A) he has the same name, but in Islam the mention of a name to refer to God is idolatry, so no one calls him by it

You sure about this? Im kinda confused at what you're trying to say maybe I misunderstood you.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually I think that could be wrong. I don't think its wrong to give God a name in Islam but whats wrong is to translate his names and give it an exact meaning.

its like making an image of Mohammad.

There is not a strict prohibition against naming god or depicting Mohammad, however, in Islamic philosophy, idolatry includes these things, and there is a prohibition against idolatry.

Where the "don't name God" thing came from, no idea. However, the concern would be that people would worship the name as opposed to Allah.

For similar reasons mosques are very minimal and undecorated, with the exception of calligraphic verses of the Qu'ran.

and yes, to someone who has no beliefs it is difficult to distinguish between calligraphy and depictions, however, in Islam, it is an important distinction.

maybe this helps? notice that it says ideas can be idolatry, and that can be manipulated to mean "words", since words represent ideas.

http://www.lutonmuslims.co.uk/kufrbiltaghoot.htm

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I mean you can call God...God but if you ask a sunni muslim what Gods name is they will say he has 99 names but we don't know what the exact meaning is.

that might be true

the use or writing of said name would still, at least how I was taught, be considered idolatry

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You sure about this? Im kinda confused at what you're trying to say maybe I misunderstood you.

so, if god has a name, and he revealed it to people prior to the revelations to mohammad, it is possible, that to muslims, Allah still has that name.

However, in some interpretations of Islam, the revelations of Mohammad include the prohibition of naming god, for fear that the name and not God himself would be worshipped, making it impossible for people to name him.

I personally think option B made more sense, but also, I'm not a believer, so most of this isn't very logical in the first place

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Ok so, I was watching a little discussion and thought I'd post some of the questions raised here- it was a question put to a panel of a Muslim Teacher and a Christian Theologian.

[b]Question: God's name in the Koran is totally different from his name in the Jewish Scripture and the Bible, does this create a question over the authenticity of the Koran.

Christian: Yes it does, because we cannot find a name for God in the Koran beyond the second century BC. Therefore its a very new name, theres no historical evidence that supports it so, we have to go back to the older scriptures(Old Testament) to find God's name. God gives his name to Moses YAHWEH. This name never appears in the Koran, however all the prophets used this name when discussing God (in English bibles where you see LORD this is were the name YAWEH is said) Why did Muhammad not know this name? He is meant to be the greatest of all prophets yet he didn't know Gods name? The only name he knows is a arabic name, a generic name which means nothing. Allah is the same as Elohim a generic name- however Moses rejected the generic name and asked God his real name, which he gave as YAHWEH.

The Muslim teacher did not comment and went on to answer another question about Salvation in Islam.

Opinions? [/B]

So, I guess it is age that makes all the difference to you. In other words, because the Jewish religion is older then the Muslim religion, you feel that sense Muhammad did not use the older name for god that his teaching were illegitimate. Now, the Hindu religion is older then the Jewish religion and they have their own name for god. Why didn't the Jewish people use the older name for god? Does that make the Jewish religion illegitimate?

Idolatry in Islam is is worshipping or ascribing divinity to anything that can be seen or was crafted by human hands.

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As for the name debate; Muslims do not consider Islam to be a new religion. Mohammed did not start a new religion, but restored and perfected Abraham's. So when God said "I am" in the Bible, Muslim philosophy would argue that it was another way of saying that he doesn't have a name, and simply is.