Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not precisely...Maul isn't exactly a slouch there and his blade skills are far enough to compensate for lack of force
I definitely agree there, however since every one on KMC always talk about not using opinions I want to know are we basing Maul's win on any evidence that he is superior to Kun in saber combat?
During Kun's time at his peak isn't true that he could not be beaten in saber combat?
He was Ulic's equal with a saber, exactly. Maul, however, has been conditioned as a living weapon physically and, in moments, outmatched the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy (Anoon Bondara), and without much difficulty, defeated Qui-Gon Jinn...Maul's got a very impressive resume with saber abilities...frankly, I'd call him one of the best pure duelists in history
Originally posted by Lightsnake
He was Ulic's equal with a saber, exactly. Maul, however, has been conditioned as a living weapon physically and, in moments, outmatched the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy (Anoon Bondara), and without much difficulty, defeated Qui-Gon Jinn...Maul's got a very impressive resume with saber abilities...frankly, I'd call him one of the best pure duelists in history
Ok, I see where you are coming from. I thought Ulic was only Exar Kun's equal before he created his new light saber and combat style. I am not familiar with Anoon Bondara so I take your word on it.
One thing I do disagree with and I am going by what I saw in the movies, I do not know if the novel depicts differently, Maul had much difficultly with Qui-Gon Jinn.
Qui-Gon back Maul all the way down into those beams which to me saved Maul from Qui-Gon's assault and gave him time to re-cooperate.
Originally posted by LightsnakeYea, from every thing I've read, Kun's double bladed was different in that the handle was only as long as a regular hilt, whereas Maul's was obviously as long as two hilts put together, if not slightly longer. Kun was said to have to be more skilled with the saber due to safety precautions. I think i read that on the OS before they revamped the site and modified people's profiles.
It's not a problem at all.From what we've seen, Exar's saber is different in that it's shorter and might require a style to go with it to be unique. Unfortunately we can't gauge much as he swings it a grand total of three times, two of which he's holding it with with both hands
Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok, I see where you are coming from. I thought Ulic was only Exar Kun's equal before he created his new light saber and combat style. I am not familiar with Anoon Bondara so I take your word on it.One thing I do disagree with and I am going by what I saw in the movies, I do not know if the novel depicts differently, Maul had much difficultly with Qui-Gon Jinn.
Qui-Gon back Maul all the way down into those beams which to me saved Maul from Qui-Gon's assault and gave him time to re-cooperate.
Anoon Bondara was the Jedi Battlemaster before Cin Drallig, btw...he's described as having saber skills second to none in the Order so in sheer bladework, he was something
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Even that wouldn't have bested Maul...Qui-Gon, Obi-wan feels, is the one exhausted and Maul is simply younger, stronger and faster...and all around better. Divided, Maul would have killed either of themAnoon Bondara was the Jedi Battlemaster before Cin Drallig, btw...he's described as having saber skills second to none in the Order so in sheer bladework, he was something
Makes sense, on a personal note, the way Qui-Gon Jinn went out was poorly done. They could have given him a better death then a simple hit to the face and stomach.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
To be fair, Maul's combination of Tera Kasi with Juyo is just as unfamiliar to Bane as Jar'Kai was
Just as familiar? Kas'im had mastered all seven forms of the lightsaber, where he was described as possessing millions of moves and combinations at his command, all of which Bane was completely unfamiliar with. Maul, however, possesses mastery of a form that Bane has complete familiarity with, and a complementary, single form of unarmed combat that Bane doesn't. There's no comparison. What Bane was unfamiliar with against Kas'im encompassed all there was to the weapon. With Maul, all he's unfamiliar with is a part of Maul's overall fighting style, not the whole, that encompassed the moves that make up a single style of combat. I'm sorry but the comparison isn't close.
As for the battle, don't even try to imply that Maul stands a chance.
Technically speaking, Bane has complete familiarity with Maul's saber form, possesses a form of lightsaber that Maul can't be said to be familiar with (the hooked lightsaber, that attacks subtly at different angles than normal lightsabers do, which can prove to be unimaginably deadly, as was shown against Farfalla, where it was stated that Bane's attack would have slipped right past Farfalla's defences and dismembered his arm at the smallest of angles), and combined with his armour, fights in the most unorthodox method observed in the entire mythos (he can block attacks with his limbs, use his entire body as a weapon without fear of being harmed, and can focus almost fully on his offence, having to worry little for his defence, only having to protect his head).
Physically, Bane was described as a mountain of muscle, and receives the added benefits of the orbalisks constantly pumping his body with substantial amounts of adrenaline.
As far as force power stands (which both Kas'im and Yoda, arguably the two greatest authorities on saber combat in the entire mythos, considered the by far most significant attribute in lightsaber combat, and the real determining factor in a lightsaber confrontation), it can't be put into words how badly Bane outclasses him, and as such, he'll have a far greater capacity for using the Force to empower his speed and strength and reflexes etc. than Maul ever would.
Lastly, he receives the added benefits of the orbalisk armour, which gives his entire body, with the exception of his head, absolute invulnerability in the context of a lightsaber fight. He only has to protect one area of his entire body, and it just so happens to be the smallest one.
Maul gets curbstomped, don't ever try to argue otherwise.
...What? I addressed that quite clearly. As unfamiliar to Bane as it may have been, it still only represented an addition to Maul's form (Bane was perfectly familiar with the other aspect), and only encompassed the moves that would make up a single style of combat, whereas the entirety of Kas'im's style was unfamiliar to Bane, and it encompassed the moves and sequences of all seven styles.
No, you didn't. You did your usual 'suck Bane's cock' bullshit and failed to accept any valid point.
Newsflash, Nebby. If it's that simple, stop with the 'OMGKUNHASTEHUNIQUE' bullshit when nothing indicates it. Nothing indicates Bane is familiar with Tera Kasi. And Jar'Kai is a variation of FORM IV as PoD kindly points out. Maul developed his own style using a martial art Bane...has no experience with and, oh, yes, is a master of all the forms of saber combat and has speed to boot.
Can you demonstrate how Maul integrated Teras Kasi into his lightsaber style, and how a form based on hand-to-hand combat would affect the mechanics of a duel? Also, show where Maul was stated to have mastered "all" the forms of lightsaber combat - I'm familiar with him being said to have been a "high-level master of multiple forms" as a prerequisite for mastering Juyo.
And please provide the quote that notes Jar'Kai to be a derivative of Ataru, and then show me where it is stated that Jar'Kai is the only method of dual-bladed fighting. We're discussing a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, someone stated to have perfected each to its highest degree, so it's more than a little ridiculous to suggest he wouldn't be able to apply any of those forms with two lightsabers.
I dont' have PoD, so I'm relying on the passages that I remember or that you or Nebaris can provide. But so far, this is a poor showing from you, Lightsnake.
Originally posted by FaunusI'm pretty sure the Episode one jorunal had Palpatine teaching him how to totally master saber combat. Moreover, Tera Kasi is a martial art, which Maul is a master of, and like Kit, he integrates it to his general style.
Can you demonstrate how Maul integrated Teras Kasi into his lightsaber style, and how a form based on hand-to-hand combat would affect the mechanics of a duel? Also, show where Maul was stated to have mastered "all" the forms of lightsaber combat - I'm familiar with him being said to have been a "high-level master of multiple forms" as a prerequisite for mastering Juyo.
And please provide the quote that notes Jar'Kai to be a derivative of Ataru, and then show me where it is stated that Jar'Kai is the only method of dual-bladed fighting. We're discussing a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, someone stated to have perfected each to its highest degree, so it's more than a little ridiculous to suggest he wouldn't be able to apply any of those forms with two lightsabers.
I dont' have PoD, so I'm relying on the passages that I remember or that you or Nebaris can provide. But so far, this is a poor showing from you, Lightsnake. [/B]
Originally posted by LightsnakeQuote? Ulic, Exar, and that guy from RoDV were all stated to be "master swordsman" (or in the case of the latter, a "master of the sword"😉, but we don't take that to mean they knew every form.
I'm pretty sure the Episode one jorunal had Palpatine teaching him how to totally master saber combat.
Moreover, Tera Kasi is a martial art, which Maul is a master of, and like Kit, he integrates it to his general style.Kit didn't know Teras Kasi, to my knowledge. He knew Shii-Cho (Form I), and applied that to his unarmed style.
Sure, from PoD:Jar'Kai is stated as a form of dual-bladed combat, but it's never to my knowledge known as double-bladed combat itself.
Bane hesitated. Few of the students at the Academy had even attempted to use two sabers at once. The Blademaster had always discouraged them from this variation of the fourth form, saying it was inherently flawed. Now, as he saw the cruel and cunning expression on his enemy's face, Bane understood the real truth.
I'm not sure if this is Karpyshyn getting it totally wrong, but this is the only source I have to go on for it.
And IS there any other method of dual saber fighting? I've never really heard of one...It's always just 'Jar'Kai' as its own form.
Originally posted by Faunus
Quote? Ulic, Exar, and that guy from RoDV were all stated to be "master swordsman" (or in the case of the latter, a "master of the sword"😉, but we don't take that to mean they knew every form.
Don't have the exact quotes at hand right now, though...I'll look later
Kit didn't know Teras Kasi, to my knowledge. He knew Shii-Cho (Form I), and applied that to his unarmed style.
Jar'Kai is stated as a form of dual-bladed combat, but it's never to my knowledge known as double-bladed combat itself.