What political philosophy would work best in your ideal society?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Isn't that the complete opposite of what a society is?

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I think that socialism and communism are both great philosophies, but I would need certain uncontrollable conditions to make an ideal society. For instance, I would need a bond of trust that would make sure that no one would manipulate the system as it has been manipulated in the past. Both are very easy to manipulate. Second, I would need lots of wealth to begin with because it takes a long time to get the "money wheel" turning under either of those. If these conditions were met, my society would be ideal for me. Unfortunately, in modern society, the first condition has been proven nearly impossible in the modern world. One power-hungry bastard is bound to ruin it for everybody, and setting up countermeasures against it would make me the power-hungry bastard, so my ideal society couldn't exist in the real world. Ah well, I've still got imagination land.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
I think that socialism and communism are both great philosophies, but I would need certain uncontrollable conditions to make an ideal society. For instance, I would need a bond of trust that would make sure that no one would manipulate the system as it has been manipulated in the past. Both are very easy to manipulate. Second, I would need lots of wealth to begin with because it takes a long time to get the "money wheel" turning under either of those. If these conditions were met, my society would be ideal for me. Unfortunately, in modern society, the first condition has been proven nearly impossible in the modern world. One power-hungry bastard is bound to ruin it for everybody, and setting up countermeasures against it would make me the power-hungry bastard, so my ideal society couldn't exist in the real world. Ah well, I've still got imagination land.

You do realize that communism is fundamentally antidemocratic and the closest application of it in the real world resulted in a situation so horrific that it's the only event involving systematic mass murder other than the Nazi and Armenian genocides to be officially known as a "holocaust", right?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
You do realize that communism is fundamentally antidemocratic and the closest application of it in the real world resulted in a situation so horrific that it's the only event involving systematic mass murder other than the Nazi and Armenian genocides to be officially known as a "holocaust", right?

Since there is nothing sacred about humanity and since free will is an illusion, I would create a society of castes based on transhumanisim.

Immortal genius philosopher kings would be at the top while specially bred stupid people that have a shitton of children to serve as free slave labor at the bottom. Designed to desire only to serve their betters, they would exist in a constant state of bliss.

The smart, tall and beautiful elites would be able to rule and satisfy their desire to control the castes below them and not suffer the annoying drawbacks of rebellion. There would probably be other castes for differently specialties, with everyone in each caste bred to desire nothing but what they are designed to do. It would be like a machine, with each cog doing its part and loving it. In this way, everyone would be equal since everyone would be happy.

Oh and all religions would be abolished and disposed of. The word god would be stricken from memory, save for perhaps among the elites.

would you then have a quarantined zone where "savages" could live, or did you learn your lesson from the book?

Originally posted by Autokrat
Immortal genius philosopher kings would be at the top while specially bred stupid people that have a shitton of children to serve as free slave labor at the bottom. Designed to desire only to serve their betters, they would exist in a constant state of bliss.

If you have the ability to achieve transhumanism slave labor would be terribly inefficient.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
would you then have a quarantined zone where "savages" could live, or did you learn your lesson from the book?

You mean a Brave New World? I've never read it actually.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you have the ability to achieve transhumanism slave labor would be terribly inefficient.

Sure, but then who would the elites rule over to make themselves feel good? Out of all the castes they would be the only ones with any real "independent" thoughts and egos that would need satisfying. I suppose you could just have self sufficient transhumans that use AI and robotics for any production necessary. Anything sub par or deviant could just be disposed of, limiting the surplus population.

Originally posted by Autokrat
Sure, but then who would the elites rule over to make themselves feel good? Out of all the castes they would be the only ones with any real "independent" thoughts and egos that would need satisfying. I suppose you could just have self sufficient transhumans that use AI and robotics for any production necessary. Anything sub par or deviant could just be disposed of, limiting the surplus population.

Just modify the "elites" to be permanently happy too, they'd never know the difference.

Originally posted by Amazing Vrayo!!
yeah, but im pretty sure you just read my first sentence, because I said that I know it doesn't work in the real world, but if there was peace, and trust between all members of my society then it would be fine.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
True communism involves the breakdown of all hierarchical relationships, including the family. I do hope you know I was referring to "Democratic Kampuchea".

They were very functional. If you need to build homes and you have a deficit of lumber but a surplus of human bones, use what you have.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
They were very functional. If you need to build homes and you have a deficit of lumber but a surplus of human bones, use what you have.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
They were very functional. If you need to build homes and you have a deficit of lumber but a surplus of human bones, use what you have.

When you run out of potatoes but like to **** like bunnies, eat babies!

They also proved that the differences between a public school and an extermination camp can be purely cosmetic.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
They also proved that the differences between a public school and an extermination camp can be purely cosmetic.

I\ve suspected this for years....

I know, aren't you glad Pol Pot's dead?

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
But you are giving value to things that will have no value unless their is higher consciousness perceiving them. In comparison its like an artist creating his masterpiece and then hiding in fear that it may get ruined, and then committing suicide in the process out of fear he may also will too. Without any one there to give value to the art work, its just an arbitrary mixture of chemicals that hold as much value a as a turd or any other composition of chemicals. We allocate value to existence, not the other way round.

In other words, if we are all dead there will be nothing to asses the value of what survives. If we die and everything else goes with us, its not going to matter because without us its just a arbitary arrangement of matter. Biology is only complicated and beutiful, because we interpret it as such. The matter itself doesn't know that its beautiful or complex, it just exists.

Hum.. that's funny. Do human being have value in and by themselves? Regardless of how others evaluate them? Are they not chemicals too?

The beauty and value you find in human intellect and its achievements is entirelly subjective, just like the value he places in the existence and agency of other organisms. The value you place in other people's lifes is equally subjective as well.

Of course, you could claim that humans can atribute value to themselves, so if a man values his own life, maybe that's enough for you to claim that it has value. But the thing is, the fundamental value we atribute to our own lives is self-preservation instinct. And even bacteria value themselves in this sense. You only see subjectivity and agency in human individuals and you link it to intellectual capacities, that is nonsense. To illustrate this: a mentally defective man who is too stupid to learn how to talk can still allocate value to his own life and so can dogs, plants and single cell organisms. This is self-evident through self-preserving behavior, even if they have no way of understanding how or why they do it, even if they have no minds or conscient sensations at all. We don't want to live because we're smart.

The respect for the existency and agency of other entities comes from empathy that we acquired through evolution. It is no more obejective to feel it for people than to feel it for trees.

By the way, the separation of humans and other living organisms into distinct ontological classes has little to no basis in biology.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
True communism involves the breakdown of all hierarchical relationships, including the family. I do hope you know I was referring to "Democratic Kampuchea".