thor vs gladiator

<continued>

Originally posted by KK the Great
But it is a reason.

A good reason.

We're not debating "What would happen if Gladiator were the villain in Thor's comic?"

We're debating "Thor vs. Gladiator."

There's no good reason for us to presume that this battle will involve plot contrivances designed to allow Thor's inevitable victory.

In a hypothetical KMC battle, Gladiator won't stand around gloating with his hands on his hips when he could be pressing his advantage. Living Lightning won't fly by and bail Thor out of trouble. Tarene won't step in and stave off Gladiator's killing blow. A distressed airplane won't force a team-up that gives Thor an opening to catch Gladiator off guard.

The "ultimate result of what actually occurs" is predestined. I don't have to read a single Thor comic to tell you that Thor beats his villains.

If Thor fights Superman in Action Comics, Superman will win.

If Thor fights Superman in The Mighty Thor, Thor will win.

Clearly, logically, an unavoidably, the details of the battle are *much* more important than the ultimate outcome when it comes to comparing the mettle of the combatants. At least if you want your analysis to have any degree of substance.

And how exactly was Gladiator caught off guard after they both saved the airplane from crashing? Where is it even depicted that he let his gaurd down? And even if in your imaginary world, he did so, is it not his own fault for letting it down even though he clearly believed Thor to still be a dire threat and was still trying to end his menace:

The proof's in the details. That much of, you're right. As to why you continually ignore those details, miscontrue others and focus on your own conceptions that Gladiator > Thor, despite understanding that, is beyond my ability to explain. At this point in our argument, you've added very little to what you've already said, all of which has been countered. You want to cling to your substitution fallacies despite and your preconceptions, that's your cup of tea. I'm gonna stick with the details, the results and the clear presentation of on-panel depictions.

Originally posted by spidey-dude

Dude, he was just holding back his durability. Saving it for later, I guess.

He asked too many questions, you see. Questions give him a glass jaw.

He was preoccupied with civilians.

He was just getting Gladiator's measure.

He was bewildered.

He didn't want to fight. The "have at thee!" gives it away.

He didn't feel like not getting knocked out just yet. Maybe later.

He was more worried about whether he remembered to turn off the stove that morning. That's the ticket!

^ Ah... the classic "strawman fallacy." Whereupon you describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to undermine, whilst ignoring the actual argument because you can't refute it legitimately. Well... once you resorted to facetious strawman fallacies in an attempt to completely ignore the details of the fight, you pretty much defeated yourself. That's fine. I've encountered that kind of desperation many a time. That usually signals the end of the debate. As it stands, it doesn't change the facts:

1) Thor was holding back;
2) Thor was bewildered by Gladiator's attack and demanding answers;
3) Thor was distracted whilst saving civilians...

... and most importantly; 4) Thor beat the crud out of Gladiator once those plot devices were dispensed with:

Deal with it. Thor wins.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As it stands, it doesn't change the facts:

1) Thor was holding back;

You're still trying to sell that?

When it comes to making excuses for a beating, the only person who trumps a Thor fan is Thor himself.

Is there some reason I should believe Thor when he delivers one of his standard ego-saving lines?

2) Thor was bewildered by Gladiator's attack

Who are you trying to fool with this crap, anyway?

Did you look up the wrong word in a thesaurus or something? The above is decidedly not the face of bewilderment.

"Stand thee back, villainous one!"
-Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

"Thou hast raised the wrath and ire of-Thor God of Thunder!"
-Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

"Now, since thou hast dared challenge the scion of eternal Asgard--HAVE AT THEE!"
-Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

*WHAMMM* *KRAKKT*
-Mjolnir; The Mighty Thor #34

"Thor was holding back the entire time [and was] bewildered by an assault from a former ally."
-OneDumbG0; KMC Versus Board

and demanding answers;

They were talking during the fight.

Just like 99% of all comic fights.

Alert the presses.

You know your excuses are getting thin when you have to resort to, "hey, my guy asked a question while hitting the other guy in the head, so his loss shouldn't count."

Should Gladiator's win count extra because he was so preoccupied with answering Thor's questions? I vote yes.

3) Thor was distracted whilst saving civilians...

That would be a much better point if Gladiator had landed his knockout punch (or any punch) while Thor was distracted saving the girl. But the truth is that Thor's moment of distraction didn't really have much of an effect on the outcome.

This is where Gladiator won the fight:

Thor's not distracted saving civilians when Gladiator smacks Mjolnir out of his hand and knocks it and him across the city.

The only thing he's distracted by are the bricks that Gladiator threw at him to disguise his true attack.

For your future benefit, just typing the word "facts" at the top of your laundry list of excuses doesn't grant them substance.

Originally posted by KK the Great
I don't think Thor has ever come off as stronger in their confrontations.

Really the only time they were portrayed as peers in a fight was in the Fantastic Four issue with the time bubble thing.

The other times, Gladiator seemed to be presented less like a peer and more like the Ivan Drago uber-threat that Thor had to Balboa-up to beat, especially in the issue with Wonder Man and Masterson Thor.

You say Thor hasnt come off as stronger in any of their confrontations.

You have seen this scan but I wonder why you continue to ignore Gladiator's own words here to sell your argument. It is crystal clear.

"I did my best,he is just too strong,"he says. How can you come to any other conclusion than Thor was stronger than Gladiator here. Gladiator didnt use the words too powerful or anything else. He used the words too strong. So for you to ignore that and build the crux of your argument around your perception of their battle and then falsely compare it to Drago and Rocky was way off from page two of this debate.

The comic clearly shows that soon as Thor got serious he was too much for Gladiator to which he later agreed to. Rocky didnt beat the shit out of Drago but simply beat him at the end while Thor beat Gladiator's ass into submission which is completely different. I think this Ivan Drago is a herochat thing because most of them are hypnotized by him as well.

Anywho Thor wins this and when he is going all out I think its safe to say he would win the majority. I mean we all know Thor is a lot more powerful than Gladiator and both are comparable strength wise. The only thing Glads has on him is speed and that didnt seem to work out to well for him in this encounter.

I am not saying Thor dominates him but I am saying that you are selling bs here. Thor whipped his ass,Glads agreed with it in his own words,and won when Thor decided to get serious. End of story.

Gladiator would have killed Thor if it wasn't for Tarene and the Enchantress coming into save Thor. What part of Tarene showing up and pulling Gladiator away as he was ready to kill Thor don't people understand????? 😕

I guess if the Enchantress would not have showed up and driven Thor to where the hammer was at...Thor would have fought Gladiator in his human form. 🙄

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok you and dumbgo have both presented your cases in their entirety and I dont believe either one of you has anything further to add here. So of course I want to say my piece now.

You say Thor hasnt come off as stronger in any of their confrontations.

You have seen this scan but I wonder why you continue to ignore Gladiator's own words here to sell your argument. It is crystal clear.

No it isn't.

"He's too strong" is not interchangeable with "He's stronger than me."

Thor being even close to Gladiator's strength is enough to explain his statement. Thor does not have to be stronger than Gladiator in order to be too strong to quickly assassinate.

"I did my best,he is just too strong,"he says. How can you come to any other conclusion than Thor was stronger than Gladiator here. Gladiator didnt use the words too powerful or anything else. He used the words too strong.

That's an asinine distinction.

Sure, on battleboards we're careful to distinguish between strength, power, toughness, and so on. But you know as well as I do that when characters talk about strength they could be referring to any of those things.

Gladiator could have been twice as strong as Thor (not saying he is) and Thor's onslaught at the end there still would have likely put him down. An energy blast followed by a flurry of Mjolnir shots to the head does nothing to demonstrate an advantage in strength, or even parity for that matter.

"Back, Gladiator! Powerful as thou might be, e'en thy strength is nothing compared to the raging fury of Mjolnir!"

That's what Thor says while blasting Gladiator and setting up his salvo of hammer blows. He doesn't say that he's stronger. He says that Mjolnir is more powerful.

Which isn't surprising, since the raging fury of Mjolnir is usually how he's able to beat physically superior foes (see also: Mangog).

The comic clearly shows that soon as Thor got serious he was too much for Gladiator to which he later agreed to. Rocky didnt beat the shit out of Drago but simply beat him at the end while Thor beat Gladiator's ass into submission which is completely different. I think this Ivan Drago is a herochat thing because most of them are hypnotized by him as well.

Truth be told, that example came to mind because of how resoundingly you're getting beaten in that Drago vs. Clubber debate.

The bottom line is this: Both times Thor has beaten Gladiator (including the Masterson fight), his victory has required him to go all-out raining down blow after unanswered blow. When Thor fights someone like Hercules, do you ever see him needing to go to such extremes to earn a win? I never have.

All Gladiator had to do in order to KO Thor for an entire minute was land one solid punch.

To put Gladiator down, Thor had to hit him with a big energy blast and press his advantage with a frenzied onslaught of hammer shots. Then Gladiator got hit again with an "Odin rivaling" blast from Tarene. And after all that, Gladiator was still getting to his feet and talking within seconds.

That does NOT paint the portrait of Thor beating a physically inferior opponent. It ABSOLUTELY paints a portrait of Thor overcoming a physically superior one.

I mean, good lord, Masterson had to pound him with TEN pissed-off Mjolnir strikes while he was already stunned by Living Lightning and unable to defend himself. Name anyone short of Thanos who would even survive that, let alone not be KO'd by it.

Thor didn't go to quite that extreme in the Jurgens fight, but he still blasted Glads and then hit him with four all-out hammer shots to the head. Thor usually craps his pants when someone survives one shot to the face like he gave Gladiator, much less four of them.

Your logic--that being KO'd by an onslaught of hammer-shots must necessarily demonstrate a strength disadvantage--is just absurd on the face of it. The fact that Thor even went to such extremes to secure a win only indicates the opposite, if anything.

Anywho Thor wins this and when he is going all out I think its safe to say he would win the majority.

I think that's far from safe to say.

What happens if Gladiator uses the speed he used in that fight when Thor isn't experiencing time differently?

Going all-out, Gladiator can get more than two weeks worth of attacks in, from his perspective, in the time it takes Thor to blink.

Originally posted by KK the Great
Going all-out, Gladiator can get more than two weeks worth of attacks in, from his perspective, in the time it takes Thor to blink.

Laughing my ass off...

Interpret the fights as much as you want, Thor's got much more than plain punches. In a fight where he uses his versatility and not only his brute power, Gladiator would fall.

Might I also add that Cassandra Nova made Gladiator pee himself.

Originally posted by llagrok
Laughing my ass off...

Did you read the scans?

The Earth heroes were using devices that made them immune to the time sphere, which slowed down time to such a degree that the heroes had been stockpiling weapons on the Shi'ar planet for TWO WEEKS from their perspective, and all the while even spaceships were frozen in the sky.

To interact with them, Gladiator had to remain at constant hyperspeed. He actually had to accelerate beyond his galactic traveling speed just to shake Thor's hand, let alone fight him.

Might I also add that Cassandra Nova made Gladiator pee himself.

Might I also add that Thor ended up bedridden in the hospital after nearly dying when a wooden ship mast fell on him.

Originally posted by KK the Great
You're still trying to sell that?

When it comes to making excuses for a beating, the only person who trumps a Thor fan is Thor himself.

Is there some reason I should believe Thor when he delivers one of his standard ego-saving lines?

Originally posted by KK the Great
Who are you trying to fool with this crap, anyway?

Did you look up the wrong word in a thesaurus or something? The above is decidedly not the face of bewilderment.

"Stand thee back, villainous one!"
-Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

"Thou hast raised the wrath and ire of-Thor God of Thunder!"
-Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

"Now, since thou hast dared challenge the scion of eternal Asgard--HAVE AT THEE!"
-Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

*WHAMMM* *KRAKKT*
-Mjolnir; The Mighty Thor #34

"Thor was holding back the entire time [and was] bewildered by an assault from a former ally."
-OneDumbG0; KMC Versus Board

"Yet thou attackest now in the manner of a craven coward! Why majestic one? Why?!"
- Thor; The Mighty Thor #34

"Thou speakest often of my crimes to come, Gladiator. But no proof thou hast offered. Thou art devoid of reason. For I would ne'er do that which might harm Midgard!"
- Thor; The Mighty Thor #35

"Surely, thou art brainwashed by a cunning foe! 'Tis the only possible explanation for thy bizzare statements!"
- Thor; The Mighty Thor #35

Originally posted by KK the Great
They were talking during the fight.

Just like 99% of all comic fights.

Alert the presses.

You know your excuses are getting thin when you have to resort to, "hey, my guy asked a question while hitting the other guy in the head, so his loss shouldn't count."

Should Gladiator's win count extra because he was so preoccupied with answering Thor's questions? I vote yes.

Originally posted by KK the Great
That would be a much better point if Gladiator had landed his knockout punch (or any punch) while Thor was distracted saving the girl. But the truth is that Thor's moment of distraction didn't really have much of an effect on the outcome.

This is where Gladiator won the fight:

Thor's not distracted saving civilians when Gladiator smacks Mjolnir out of his hand and knocks it and him across the city.

The only thing he's distracted by are the bricks that Gladiator threw at him to disguise his true attack.

For your future benefit, just typing the word "facts" at the top of your laundry list of excuses doesn't grant them substance.

Oops. Silly me. I suppose I'm supposed to just ignore that. Guess I'm also supposed to ignore that the shockwave attack also gave him time to pick up that building... Yea. Silly me. Face it, at the beginning of the fight, Gladiator's face was being used for batting practice and he had to resort to harming an innocent in order to set Thor up. And this is apparently proof of his superiority and thus an untainted victory in your opinion. BWAHAHAHAHA! And as for the building attack, Thor could have just jumped out of the way and just let all the rest of the debris smoosh the innocent woman behind him. Yeah, I'm sure that would make sense.

Now let me remind you of how this argument has developed between us. I've addressed every single one of your points. You've been forced to drop several of yours. Your account of the fight is a jaundiced one, at best. I've also had to correct you several times on important details. I don't know what's motivating you to ignore the clear presentation of the story, but the proof's in the pudding and in the characters' own words:

"Thus, I can hold back no longer!"
- Thor, The Mighty Thor #35

"I did my best. But he's too strong."
- Gladiator, The Mighty Thor #35

You really picked a losing battle here, mate. Your tenacity would be admirable, if it wasn't so obviously wasted on a losing effort.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Deal with it. Thor wins.

Originally posted by KK the Great
No it isn't.

"He's too strong" is not interchangeable with "He's stronger than me."

Thor being even close to Gladiator's strength is enough to explain his statement. Thor does not have to be stronger than Gladiator in order to be too strong to quickly assassinate.

That's an asinine distinction.

Sure, on battleboards we're careful to distinguish between strength, power, toughness, and so on. But you know as well as I do that when characters talk about strength they could be referring to any of those things.

Gladiator could have been twice as strong as Thor (not saying he is) and Thor's onslaught at the end there still would have likely put him down. An energy blast followed by a flurry of Mjolnir shots to the head does nothing to demonstrate an advantage in strength, or even parity for that matter.

"Back, Gladiator! Powerful as thou might be, e'en thy strength is nothing compared to the raging fury of Mjolnir!"

That's what Thor says while blasting Gladiator and setting up his salvo of hammer blows. He doesn't say that he's stronger. He says that Mjolnir is more powerful.

Which isn't surprising, since the raging fury of Mjolnir is usually how he's able to beat physically superior foes (see also: Mangog).

Truth be told, that example came to mind because of how resoundingly you're getting beaten in that Drago vs. Clubber debate.

The bottom line is this: Both times Thor has beaten Gladiator (including the Masterson fight), his victory has required him to go all-out raining down blow after unanswered blow. When Thor fights someone like Hercules, do you ever see him needing to go to such extremes to earn a win? I never have.

All Gladiator had to do in order to KO Thor for an entire minute was land one solid punch.

To put Gladiator down, Thor had to hit him with a big energy blast and press his advantage with a frenzied onslaught of hammer shots. Then Gladiator got hit again with an "Odin rivaling" blast from Tarene. And after all that, Gladiator was still getting to his feet and talking within seconds.

That does NOT paint the portrait of Thor beating a physically inferior opponent. It ABSOLUTELY paints a portrait of Thor overcoming a physically superior one.

I mean, good lord, Masterson had to pound him with TEN pissed-off Mjolnir strikes while he was already stunned by Living Lightning and unable to defend himself. Name anyone short of Thanos who would even survive that, let alone not be KO'd by it.

Thor didn't go to quite that extreme in the Jurgens fight, but he still blasted Glads and then hit him with four all-out hammer shots to the head. Thor usually craps his pants when someone survives one shot to the face like he gave Gladiator, much less four of them.

Your logic--that being KO'd by an onslaught of hammer-shots must necessarily demonstrate a strength disadvantage--is just absurd on the face of it. The fact that Thor even went to such extremes to secure a win only indicates the opposite, if anything.

I think that's far from safe to say.

What happens if Gladiator uses the speed he used in that fight when Thor isn't experiencing time differently?

Going all-out, Gladiator can get more than two weeks worth of attacks in, from his perspective, in the time it takes Thor to blink.

I never said that Thor could beat this guy ten out of ten times so its entirely possible for Glads to get some wins here especially out of ten matches due to his speed. But Thor is still taking the majority here as the fight has clearly shown. When Thor got serious he wrekced him.

Yes, Thor brings his hammer to 9o plus percent of his fights. Thor doesnt have to say I am stronger than you for him to be stronger than Gladiator. Imo Glad's words were enough to convince me. But that is only in this encounter and like I said in my first post their strength is comparable. But with that now said we must also take into account Thor's war hammer that he brings to this fight. See if you want to create a matchup hand to hand barring his war hammer then Id be more inclined to give Glads the majority. But Thor gets his war hammer which really decides this matchup.

Why dont you come out of the shadows on herochat then under another name and personally come at me in the clubber lang vs. ivan drago debate. Otherwise be silent.

I think its rather comical that you said that maybe Gladiator could have been twice as strong and then put up scans of another battle where Gladiator even admits he is my equal in strength in that particular battle and then he resorts to heat vision. I have gone over this already but your scan even shows that Glads and Thor's strength are comparable which has always been my position. Thor's hammer wins this. In your scans the fight was stopped before it could have been concluded while both looked very fresh still with no real victor in that particular skirmish.

Gladiator already went all out and the scan has been put up twice. You are trying really hard here to get us all to forget what actually happened in the comic and what Glads said himself. Thor wins. Accept it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Spin it however you want. In that encounter I think Thor looked stronger.

You think a lot of things that don't stand up to reason.

Do you have any scans of Gladiator beating the real Thor?

Have you been following at all?

OneDumb coming quick with a laundry list of excuses doesn't mean Thor wasn't beaten.

Yes, Thor brings his hammer to 9o plus percent of his fights. Thor doesnt have to say I am stronger than you for him to be stronger than Gladiator.

Thor himself doesn't attribute his win to superior strength. He says that as powerful as Gladiator is, even his strength falls short of the power of Mjolnir.

Which is exactly in line with how he usually manages to win against his more powerful villains.

Why dont you come out of the shadows on herochat then under another name and personally come at me in the clubber lang vs. ivan drago debate. Otherwise be silent.

Or you could just take it to Spinsulin and get put in your place again.

Hell, bring OneDumbG0. From what I've seen of his tenuous grasp of logic, he's almost certain to conclude that Rocky is stronger than Ivan.

I think its rather comical that you said that maybe Gladiator could have been twice as strong and then put up scans of another battle where Gladiator even admits he is my equal in strength in that particular battle and then he resorts to heat vision.

What's comical about it? I said right from the start that of all the Thor/Gladiator confrontations, that one was the only time they were portrayed as peers, while in the other two Gladiator was clearly written as a Drago-style overwhelmingly powerful opponent.

Originally posted by KK the Great
You think a lot of things that don't stand up to reason.

Have you been following at all?

OneDumb coming quick with a laundry list of excuses doesn't mean Thor wasn't beaten.

Thor himself doesn't attribute his win to superior strength. He says that as powerful as Gladiator is, even his strength falls short of the power of Mjolnir.

Which is exactly in line with how he usually manages to win against his more powerful villains.

Or you could just take it to Spinsulin and get put in your place again.

Hell, bring OneDumbG0. From what I've seen of his tenuous grasp of logic, he's almost certain to conclude that Rocky is stronger than Ivan.

What's comical about it? I said right from the start that of all the Thor/Gladiator confrontations, that one was the only time they were portrayed as peers, while in the other two Gladiator was clearly written as a Drago-style overwhelmingly powerful opponent.

No I saw you ignore points and try to tell us how you think the battle would go. You kept referring to speed but Gladiator clearly said he gave his best. We all have our opinions and our favorite characters but the at no time in either of these battles did the comic actually show us anything other than Thor being his superior in their second fight that was uninterrupted.

I never said Thor would beat him on strength alone. I have always maintained that their strength is comparable and Glads himself agrees with me. Why cant you? You put up the scans. It comes down to the warhammer. That is why Thor wins.

Yes, Thor beats more powerful villains using his hammer and thats how he defeated Gladiator as well. Without mjolinir Thor would lose more often than he would win.

I will come back to spinsulin. Rest assured. I cant speak for onedumbgo but I think he is happy here and doesnt want to travel from forum to forum. See kk this is what I dont get about you. Why must you insult him just because you disagreed with him. When did he ever say that rocky was stronger than drago? The stronger figher drago lost that encounter. The stronger person doesnt always win. Do you really think Gladiator is stronger than Thor in either of their encounters and if so what leads you to believe this?

Ok. First off Gladiator is fighting Thor who seems him as an ally and is clearly taken back. Rocky wants Drago's balls for what he did to his friend apollo creed. Thor clearly states he can hold back no more and quickly destroys Glads. Rocky was never holding back. His mission of beating Drago had been clear when he accpeted this matchup. Rocky barely managed to beat Drago at the end of their fight. Glads didnt look superior at all and his words afterwords proved he knew he was beaten and that he gave his best.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No I saw you ignore points and try to tell us how you think the battle would go. You kept referring to speed but Gladiator clearly said he gave his best.

Oh, well if Gladiator said he gave his best...

Are you serious with that?

I just posted scans of Gladiator spending an entire issue operating at hyperspeed. He fought evenly with a Thor who was on a different flow of time.

But Gladiator "said he gave his best," so I guess he must've been using that speed...um...nowhere. Sorry. He used it nowhere. Good try, though.

We all have our opinions and our favorite characters but the at no time in either of these battles did the comic actually show us anything other than Thor being his superior in their second fight that was uninterrupted.

Have you ever seen Thor fight a weaker opponent? Or even an equal one?

When he fights opponents weaker than himself, he doesn't need to lay into them with an all-out onslaught of repeated hammer blows like he did against Gladiator. He doesn't even do that against guys like Hercules or Wonder Man.

Yes, Thor won the day. It was a huge surprise to exactly nobody.

He's also won the day against Mangog, Kurse, and any number of foes who most people accept as being stronger than him. His victory over Gladiator is presented more in line with those fights than with a fight against, say, Hercules.

Gladiator is quite clearly portrayed not as a weaker nuisance or even a peer, but as an overwhelming powerhouse against whom Thor must pull out all the stops.

Just look at how he won again.

He hit Gladiator with a full-body energy blast.

Then he let pummeled his head with several all-out Mjolnir strikes.

Then Tarene stepped in and hit Gladiator with an "Odin rivaling" blast.

After all that, Gladiator was *still* rising to his feet and talking within seconds.

If Thor (and Tarene) did that to someone weaker than Thor, their target would be a bloody smear--not conscious and standing seconds later.

That is, plain and simply, NOT what it looks like when Thor fights a weaker opponent. That's what it looks like when Thor, the hero of the book, goes all-out to stop a stronger foe.

I explained all of this to OneDUmbG0 rationally, and he brushed it aside and proceeded to spam the thread with scans of Thor hitting Gladiator and lots of fist-pumping and chest-thumping, as though celebrating his simple-minded approach to analysis. That's when the debate was over.

Ultimately, Thor wins the majority.

thor wins

Originally posted by KK the Great
Oh, well if Gladiator said he gave his best...

Are you serious with that?

I just posted scans of Gladiator spending an entire issue operating at hyperspeed. He fought evenly with a Thor who was on a different flow of time.

But Gladiator "said he gave his best," so I guess he must've been using that speed...um...nowhere. Sorry. He used it nowhere. Good try, though.

Have you ever seen Thor fight a weaker opponent? Or even an equal one?

When he fights opponents weaker than himself, he doesn't need to lay into them with an all-out onslaught of repeated hammer blows like he did against Gladiator. He doesn't even do that against guys like Hercules or Wonder Man.

Yes, Thor won the day. It was a huge surprise to exactly nobody.

He's also won the day against Mangog, Kurse, and any number of foes who most people accept as being stronger than him. His victory over Gladiator is presented more in line with those fights than with a fight against, say, Hercules.

Gladiator is quite clearly portrayed not as a weaker nuisance or even a peer, but as an overwhelming powerhouse against whom Thor must pull out all the stops.

Just look at how he won again.

He hit Gladiator with a full-body energy blast.

Then he let pummeled his head with several all-out Mjolnir strikes.

Then Tarene stepped in and hit Gladiator with an "Odin rivaling" blast.

After all that, Gladiator was *still* rising to his feet and talking within seconds.

If Thor (and Tarene) did that to someone weaker than Thor, their target would be a bloody smear--not conscious and standing seconds later.

That is, plain and simply, NOT what it looks like when Thor fights a weaker opponent. That's what it looks like when Thor, the hero of the book, goes all-out to stop a stronger foe.

I explained all of this to OneDUmbG0 rationally, and he brushed it aside and proceeded to spam the thread with scans of Thor hitting Gladiator and lots of fist-pumping and chest-thumping, as though celebrating his simple-minded approach to analysis. That's when the debate was over.

So now you are trying to prove what exactly? That he went all out against Gladiator but doesnt need to against Hercules and other weaker opponents than Gladiator. I mean where are you getting this theory that Gladiator is superior to Thor? Where? In both of these battles both of these fighters were impressed with one another. In the second battle Thor was victorious. Thor stated he wasnt holding back anymore and beat him. This is all stated in the comic. Thor said he was serious and quickly decimated Glads into the pavement. The guy went back with his tail inbetween his legs here. You already know his comments and you cant change the obvious meaning of his words.

You can downplay them all you want and piss and moan about him losing but just because you see this fight different that doesnt overtake the actual comics here. Thor won and looked rather superior to Glads. Rocky beat a stronger Drago while Thor appeared stronger in this battle as well. So I think this comparison is terrible. Drago had an obvious edge in the strength department while Glads doesnt have one even according to him.

Please dont tell me you are comparing Mangog to Glads here. Wasnt Thor amped up for that fight with Mangog anyways?

***** and moan all you want but his own words prove you are wrong here. He didnt say,"I had him until that ***** Tarene interfered." No he said Thor was too strong and that he tried his best. Thor wasnt even going all out and wanted to know what had gotten into Glads. When Thor decided to get serious he stomped him into the ground.

Onedumbgo posted scans of the fight so you couldnt downplay Thor's intentions and his words. Again I can tell you like Glads but you havent changed one single mind here.

Thor wins and deal with it.

Originally posted by KK the Great
Did you read the scans?

The Earth heroes were using devices that made them immune to the time sphere, which slowed down time to such a degree that the heroes had been stockpiling weapons on the Shi'ar planet for TWO WEEKS from their perspective, and all the while even spaceships were frozen in the sky.

To interact with them, Gladiator had to remain at constant hyperspeed. He actually had to accelerate beyond his galactic traveling speed just to shake Thor's hand, let alone fight him.

And I STILL don't believe that Gladiator would be able to get 2 weeks of punching time in on Thor. Crazy, huh?

Originally posted by KK the Great
Might I also add that Thor ended up bedridden in the hospital after nearly dying when a wooden ship mast fell on him.

Did piss his pants though.

Can't stoop any lower than urinating yourself.

Thor.