Sorceress Ultimecia Vs. Nozdormu

Originally posted by Becci
I am bumping this thread because "new" data about Nozdormu has appeared. It is not actually new, since it was in War of the Ancients, but it did not cross my mind when I posted in this thread previously. I had forgotten it until the point where I read it yesterday:

Nozdormu has shown resistance to time, existance and reality compression for a longer period of time. Troughout the entire War of the Ancients, Nozdormu while being tortured kept all of time, reality and existance from imploding.

At the same time as he kept everything together, he showed anomalistic time powers when he ripped Krasus, Broxigar and Rhonin out of time and existance itself, to where he was caged. While doing this, he also for a brief moment granted Krasus absolute vision, allowing him to see everything that has, is and will come. "Krasus had witnessed time in its ultimate aspect, all at once".

During this process, Gaskal was slain, and if nothing else, proves that Nozdormu can not only keep time and existance from imploding, but can do so while being tortured extremely and while preforming other actions at the same time, such as killing Gaskal by altering Gaskar himself rather than the time around him.

So with this newly rediscovered knowledge, I dare say that Nozdormu can not only fight back compression, but also fight Ultimecia while doing so.

Just because he can resist some relatively minor Time Compression and Reality Warping powers, does not mean he can resist it on a universal level.

Only Ultimecia was able to absorb ALL reality, all time, and space, Nozdormu is a part of both.

Minor? On what are you basing "minor"? 😐

"Relatively minor time compression and reality warping power"? He prevented all of existance, along with time and space from IMPLODING! Heck, I would even say that holding back an implosion is more impressive than being able to preform compressing. Especially since Ultimecia did never really have much trouble, while Nozdormu was being tortured and weakened.

Korialstrasz said that if Nozdormu had given in, existance would no longer be. All that was known would be no longer. Let me give you the exact words by Richard A. Knaak: "Fighting to hold everything together, absolutely EVERYTHING". Nozdormu is part of both existance and time, and he could withstand it for the duration of the whole War of the Ancients.

How can you go about saying "He can not resist Ultimecia" when he held all of existance, along with reality and time from imploding for a longer period of time while being tortured and bound by the Old Gods?
He was also according to Korialstrasz weak during this process, which Korialstrasz had determined by Nozdormu's voice. This is of course not fact, but a speculation from Korialstrasz.

You can not prove that Ultimecia is stronger than the force he fought. No, I can not prove that the force he fought is greater than Ultimecia either, but that is exactly the point. Since Nozdormu has shown resistance, we can not assume that Ultimecia is the better of the two and say that she'll win since Nozdormu has shown capable of preventing the exact same thing as she has been shown capable of preforming. Nozdormu has shown not only resistance to it himself, but has been able to prevent time, space, reality and existance implosion under massive pain and likely under a weakened state for a long period of time, and not to mention how long he might have been fighting it before contacting Korialstrasz.

When one reads that, it get's scary to think of what Highfather can do...

If we use the teachings of professor David Deutsch, Nozdormu kept the multiverse from ceasing to exist. According to David Deutsch, the 'Fabrics of Reality' which was specified as one of the things Nozdormu kept from imploding, it is reality on a multiversal level. Which means that Nozdormu kept multiple universes from ceasing to exist while being tortured and weakened.

Originally posted by Becci
Minor? On what are you basing "minor"? 😐

"Relatively minor time compression and reality warping power"? He prevented all of existance, along with time and space from IMPLODING! Heck, I would even say that holding back an implosion is more impressive than being able to preform compressing. Especially since Ultimecia did never really have much trouble, while Nozdormu was being tortured and weakened.

Korialstrasz said that if Nozdormu had given in, existance would no longer be. All that was known would be no longer. Let me give you the exact words by Richard A. Knaak: "Fighting to hold everything together, absolutely EVERYTHING". Nozdormu is part of both existance and time, and he could withstand it for the duration of the whole War of the Ancients.

How can you go about saying "He can not resist Ultimecia" when he held all of existance, along with reality and time from imploding for a longer period of time while being tortured and bound by the Old Gods?
He was also according to Korialstrasz weak during this process, which Korialstrasz had determined by Nozdormu's voice. This is of course not fact, but a speculation from Korialstrasz.

You can not prove that Ultimecia is stronger than the force he fought. No, I can not prove that the force he fought is greater than Ultimecia either, but that is exactly the point. Since Nozdormu has shown resistance, we can not assume that Ultimecia is the better of the two and say that she'll win since Nozdormu has shown capable of preventing the exact same thing as she has been shown capable of preforming. Nozdormu has shown not only resistance to it himself, but has been able to prevent time, space, reality and existance implosion under massive pain and likely under a weakened state for a long period of time, and not to mention how long he might have been fighting it before contacting Korialstrasz.

Can you prove that?

Because if that is true, it is the single greatest feat in Warcraft(by far) and would cement Noz as the single strongest character in all of Warcraft, easily.

I mean, with that kinda power, why would the Titans need to travel to planet to planet to destroy corruption, when Highfather could just control it on a universal level?

Either you misunderstood the context of what happened, or that is the greatest contradiction in Warcraft.

And also...What would have been causing all existence to implode?

And again, how will Noz actually go about killing Ultimecia?

1. "Images flashed through his befuddled mind again. Landscaps, creatures, artifacts. Krasus had witnessed time in its ultimate aspect, all at once.
Aspect? That word summoned another read vision, one he had thankfully forgotten until now. In the midst of the swirling chaos of time, Krasus had glimpsed a sight that left his heart and hope shattered.
There, in the center of the fury, he had seen Nozdormu, the great Aspect of Time . . . trapped like a fly in a web.
Nozdormu had been there in all his terrible glory, a vast dragon not of flesh but of the golden sands of eternity. His glittering, gemlike eyes, eyes the color of the sun, had been open wide, but had not in turn seen the insignifficant figure of Krasus. The great dragon had been in the throes of both battle and agony, ensared yet also fighting to hold everything together--absolutely everything.
Nozdormu was both victim and savior. Trapped in all time, he also held it from falling apart. If not for the Aspect, the fabric of reality would have collapsed there and then. The world Krasus knew would have disappeared forever. It would never have even existed"

2. I have never objected to Nozdormu being one of the high tier entities of Warcraft. He can create pocket dimensions, can kill a person thousand times over with a single thought and do so in different ways, he has the ability to see ALL things that has and will come simultaneously, enter the mind of others, create time and space vortex, uses fatal magic across dimensions and his gigantic size alone could easily par him with Archimonde as he climed the World Tree. Not to mention that he has every single power any bronze dragon has ever shown.

3. The Titans does not travel planets to destroy corruption. You have gotten that wrong. They travel cosmos to spread life. That is the reason why they left guardians on Azeroth (The Aspects). Highfather Aman'Thul granted Nozdormu the powers he did, and Nozdormu became the most powerful entity on Azeroth, and easily among the top 5 in existance. I would even be so bold as to say that he is the second most powerful there is, only surpassed by Highfather.
(This is of course relative. He is as powerful as he is because he is a master of time and space. An advantage in combat impossible to fight)

4. There is one point of high importance that you need to consider: Highfather is no destroyer. He is a creator. Nozdormu is no warrior. He is a guardian. Sure, Highfather could probably dominate the universe if he ever wanted, but he only wants to create. The Pantheon are no warriors.

5. Nozdormu's feat of holding everything together is, indeed, the greatest accomplishment in all of Warcraft after Highfather, who created time.

6. The universe itself is the reason. As one Bronze Dragon said, if certain things in the past are altered to a drastical extent, it would not alter the future. It would create no future, or any past. All that is would cease to exist. The Old Gods were trying to escape their banish with the usage of time disruption and altering of the ancient war. What no one knew but Nozdormu (Who was trapped by the Old Gods), was that the fabrics of reality (Again I want to refer everyone to professor David Deutsch's book named "Fabric of Reality"😉 was being torn asunder, that existance would cease and that time was crumbling.

The Bronze Dragonflight was given a HUGE responsebility.

7. I imagine that Nozdormu has a lot of options: He could create extreme mental pain that has her lose focus, he could compress Ultimecia to the point of no existance, he could turn her into dust by making her body beyond ancient, he could transform her into a baby, he could ensnare her with telekinesis and let lose the wrath of time on her, or he could appear before her and with a grip crush her (For as far as I recall, she is not that big and has not shown much physical durability). I even think that Ultimecia might lose against Nozdorm in an actual time battle. Other than her compression ability, has she shown anything to be on par with Nozdormu?

Longer than expected 😛

I concede the debate because I do not care enough about Ultimecia(hate her in fact) to actually read that post.

Nozdormu says he loves Ultimecia and cherishes her friendship and because of that Ultimecia is destroyed and Nozdormu wins.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Nozdormu says he loves Ultimecia and cherishes her friendship and because of that Ultimecia is destroyed and Nozdormu wins.

Seriously though, fvck Ultimecia and all of Disk 4.

There's a difference between keeping time and existence from imploding, and actually being the controller of all time and existence.

Ultimecia could've re-made all of existence in her image, anything she wanted, she was basically god.

Originally posted by Terryc250
There's a difference between keeping time and existence from imploding, and actually being the controller of all time and existence.

Ultimecia could've re-made all of existence in her image, anything she wanted, she was basically god.

She was compressing existance. Nozdormu kept existance from being compressed. There is less of a difference than you want to see.

Originally posted by Becci
Other than her compression ability, has she shown anything to be on par with Nozdormu?

Instead of asking us about this, and waiting for an answer, why you just don't go to Ultimecia's Respect Thread and see for yourself?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Ultimecia could've re-made all of existence in her image, anything she wanted, she was basically god.

No. She was becoming god.
To be able to do what you said, she would need to absorb ALL existence. Something she failed to do.

Originally posted by SHM
Instead of asking us about this, and waiting for an answer, why you just don't go to Ultimecia's Respect Thread and see for yourself?

No. She was [b]becoming god.
To be able to do what you said, she would need to absorb ALL existence. Something she failed to do. [/B]

I have read the respect thread, but seen nothing that implicate this. Which is why I decided to ask instead, since perhaps not all things has been brought up.