Originally posted by darthgoober
Took control how?
Magic sort of gets represented as being able to break the 4th wall through all of SevenSoldiers. In the battle against Zor they climb between panels, tear them apart and squash them. Most notably her spell is what causes the team to come together in the final issue. In the casting she turns Tarot cards into the covers of various issues in order to represent the Soldiers.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Magic sort of gets represented as being able to break the 4th wall through all of SevenSoldiers. In the battle against Zor they climb between panels, tear them apart and squash them. Most notably her spell is what causes the team to come together in the final issue. In the casting she turns Tarot cards into the covers of various issues in order to represent the Soldiers.
Originally posted by Cavalier
Animal Man's talk with Morrison trumps almost all (but not all) 4th wall breaking feats.
And how would it be more impressive than things like the time that Doom held his writers and artist hostage and actually made them change the plot of the comic in progress? I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong in your assessment or anything because I'm not familiar with the instance in question. I'm just asking what it was that made the conversation so special.
Originally posted by darthgooberIt's because he comes to completely understand what it means to be a comic book character... he explores the futility of trying to attack Morrison, and the idea of Morrison controlling everything he says and does, and how he can be made to act completely out of character.
And how would it be more impressive than things like the time that Doom held his writers and artist hostage and actually made them change the plot of the comic in progress? I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong in your assessment or anything because I'm not familiar with the instance in question. I'm just asking what it was that made the conversation so special.
Characters can be shown threatening their writers and so forth, but we know it's not real and that they could never really carry through with their threats.
But Buddy was one of the only ones to realize this.
There's more, but... the point is that he realizes the perspective of a reader reading something completely fictional, where as all the other characters that "break the 4th wall" still act (for the most part) as if they're in the story, and talking to the writer is just part of that.
You should read it... it's surreal stuff.
Originally posted by CavalierIt's because he comes to completely understand what it means to be a comic book character... he explores the futility of trying to attack Morrison, and the idea of Morrison controlling everything he says and does, and how he can be made to act completely out of character.
Characters can be shown threatening their writers and so forth, but we know it's not real and that they could never really carry through with their threats.
But Buddy was one of the only ones to realize this.
There's more, but... the point is that he realizes the perspective of a reader reading something completely fictional, where as all the other characters that "break the 4th wall" still act (for the most part) as if they're in the story, and talking to the writer is just part of that.
You should read it... it's surreal stuff.
But She-Hulk had a 60 issue run, and she broke the 4th wall across 54 of them,
I know cause I have the collection.
It was downright hilarious.
The insane part is, It's part of She-Hulk's skill-set (in 2008 Bios)
to sense the readers looking at her.
Also, She-Hulk definitely knows she's in a stupid comic book, (so does Juggs)
she also knows that Writers control her life (scans below)
and she also knows about the 4th Wall, which she literally mentions here:
(this is She-Hulk beyond the 4th Wall, beating up her Writers ... in 2008)
Originally posted by Galan007I never said Buddy was the only one.
^so does mxy. don't try to make it all philosophical. 131
But honestly (and I'm not necessarily referring to Mxy here), if a character is ever written to "beat up the writers", or kidnap them, or whatever, they're not breaking the 4th wall... they're just dealing with new characters in their world. Not addressing our world.
Originally posted by CavalierDoesn't that same logic work for writers appearing in comics?
I never said Buddy was the only one.But honestly (and I'm not necessarily referring to Mxy here), if a character is ever written to "beat up the writers", or kidnap them, or whatever, they're not breaking the 4th wall... they're just dealing with new characters in their world. Not addressing our world.
Originally posted by Red HulkOnly if the characters are shown to be able to physically affect the "writers".
Doesn't that same logic work for writers appearing in comics?
Morrison says something to Buddy, along the lines of "You can never enter my world. Not really. But I can enter yours whenever I please".
Originally posted by Mr MasterYour the best 🙂 Jugg has soft side!
I read Animal #26, it's a wonderful book,
and definitely one of the most detailed expressions
of what God should and indeed is in comics.But She-Hulk had a 60 issue run, and she broke the 4th wall across 54 of them,
I know cause I have the collection.It was downright hilarious.
The insane part is, It's part of She-Hulk's skill-set (in 2008 Bios)
to sense the readers looking at her.Also, She-Hulk definitely knows she's in a stupid comic book, (so does Juggs)
she also knows that Writers control her life (scans below)
and she also knows about the 4th Wall, which she literally mentions here:(this is She-Hulk beyond the 4th Wall, beating up her Writers ... in 2008)
Originally posted by CavalierBut wouldn't it still be a comic character talking about a supreme world?
Only if the characters are shown to be able to physically affect the "writers".Morrison says something to Buddy, along the lines of "You can never enter my world. Not really. But I can enter yours whenever I please".
If a comic character beats up a writer, then they're still addressing the fact that someone else writes them.
Fact is, a writer can never appear in a comic. Only the representation of a writer can appear in a comic, and that's what is what gets beat up by comic characters, and that's what talks to comic characters. Hell, even Animal Man killed a writer... the problem is that Morrison chose to show Animal Man that was impossible... other writers didn't.
Anyway... a lot of the 4th wall feats irritate me unless well done.
The only 4th wall feats any comic character has is knowing that they're in a comic realistically.
Blarg!
Originally posted by Red HulkFair enough.
Fact is, a writer can never appear in a comic. Only the representation of a writer can appear in a comic, and that's what is what gets beat up by comic characters, and that's what talks to comic characters.
I guess a more apt response would be to say that it's never a character breaking a fourth wall if it gives the illusion of them coming out of a comic book, of them affecting the writing of the comic book, and of them affecting the real world while they believe it the whole time.
Whenever a character truly believes they hold any power over the real world... that's not 4th wall breaking, because that's not really realizing that they're characters.
IMO.
Originally posted by CavalierI see any response to 'another world' as 4th wall breaking.
Fair enough.I guess a more apt response would be to say that it's never a character breaking a fourth wall if it gives the illusion of them coming out of a comic book, of them affecting the writing of the comic book, and of them affecting the real world while they believe it the whole time.
Whenever a character truly believes they hold any power over the real world... that's not 4th wall breaking, because that's not really realizing that they're characters.
IMO.
To me, they don't have to know they're characters, they just have to know that they are being watched, and understand that people 'watch' them.
And obviously things like Mxy punching writers in the faces, and She-Hulk ripping pages never happened, but it's still basic understanding of what 'they're' doing, although it may make no sense. Morrison just explains what actually happens, but it doesn't rule out any other things as '4th wall breaking' IMO.
Basically, there's good writing, and there's bad writing of it, but all of it counts as 4th wall breaking... I think anyway...
What's worse for me is when these things get attributed as feats for the characters...
Originally posted by Red HulkMeh... I guess that goes back to what's a superior "feat" of 4th wall breaking... I would put realizing the futility of being a comic book character far above most Shulkie feats.
Basically, there's good writing, and there's bad writing of it, but all of it counts as 4th wall breaking... I think anyway...
Originally posted by Red HulkAmen to that.
What's worse for me is when these things get attributed as feats for the characters...
"Impossible Man turns into Marvel's editor!"
"She Hulk rips his page out!"
Ugh.
Originally posted by CavalierThat makes sense. He knows he can't actually do anything, and that in itself is the best understanding of it as you can get.
Meh... I guess that goes back to what's a superior "feat" of 4th wall breaking... I would put realizing the futility of being a comic book character far above most Shulkie feats.Amen to that.
"Impossible Man turns into Marvel's editor!"
"She Hulk rips his page out!"Ugh.
Ya. It's only funny when it's applied to another 4th wall person... other than that, it's nothing but hyped up junk.
Anyway, bed.
