NJO Luke vs Any Two (Saber Fight)

I would wager that Luke at his peak (DN -> LotF?) is pretty much unbeatable by any single opponent. At his highest showings, he's beastly. At his lowest, he's embarrassing.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
MAUL? IS THAT A JOKE? I dearly hope so.

Of course it isn't. Maul is one of the greatest pure duelists ever. He took down the entire Black Sun organization, which included at least seven bounty hunters perhaps only a tier below Boba Fett (we don't know because he took them all out so quickly), and a Nightsister trained in saber combat. He also took bested Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fairly easily while not even at 100% health. He tooled Anoon Bondara, the most skilled lightsaber combatant of the current Jedi Order.

His only two losses were to Darth Vader and Darth Sidious. The former he was beating badly and Vader would have died had he not impaled himself and harmed his own life support systems in order to hit Maul. Plus it wasn't clear if that Maul was ressurected, or a clone, or what. We don't even know if he had the same combat experience as the original. The latter he lost to after being hunted for a month on a remote world by assassin droids, having not eaten in days, probably wounded, and definitely exhausted. Hardly flattering circumstances.

So yeah, I think Maul could definitely take NJO Luke. He doesn't get nearly enough respect around here in my opinion.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
But Luke is probably the greatest saber combatant in history.

I don't know much about the NJO era. I'm going by what Gideon says that, during NJO, Luke was not a very well trained lightsaber duelist and he was only extremely formittable because of his vast Force powers. LOTF Luke would be a different story.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Of course it isn't. Maul is one of the greatest pure duelists ever. He took down the entire Black Sun organization, which included at least seven bounty hunters perhaps only a tier below Boba Fett (we don't know because he took them all out so quickly), and a Nightsister trained in saber combat. He also took bested Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fairly easily while not even at 100% health. He tooled Anoon Bondara, the most skilled lightsaber combatant of the current Jedi Order.

His only two losses were to Darth Vader and Darth Sidious. The former he was beating badly and Vader would have died had he not impaled himself and harmed his own life support systems in order to hit Maul. Plus it wasn't clear if that Maul was ressurected, or a clone, or what. We don't even know if he had the same combat experience as the original. The latter he lost to after being hunted for a month on a remote world by assassin droids, having not eaten in days, probably wounded, and definitely exhausted. Hardly flattering circumstances.

So yeah, I think Maul could definitely take NJO Luke. He doesn't get nearly enough respect around here in my opinion.

I don't know much about the NJO era. I'm going by what Gideon says that, during NJO, Luke was not a very well trained lightsaber duelist and he was only extremely formittable because of his vast Force powers. LOTF Luke would be a different story.

You are correct that Maul is more technically skilled and better physically conditioned than Luke Skywalker- what you are not correct about is the fact that Skywalker is- when empowered by the force- faster, stronger, with superior reflexes. By F*CKING LIGHTYEARS. Maul cannot, in any shape and form, contend with Luke, who is far faster (seemingly wielded 20 sabers at once to destroy a Yuuzhan Vong army. An incredible feat) and simply a greater swordsman- the above mentioned feat curbstomps any of Maul's own.

Yeah, Maul is good, but he is NOT a match for top-tier duelists like Yoda, Sidious (who outclassed Maul, despite holding back and not trying to kill him, while Maul- a physical beast, who would only use to pain to empower himself, in a manner certain Sith do), Mace, Bane, or Luke. Not even close.

If anything, Maul is overrated.

Edit: Well, Faunus, I agree that Luke at his peak is probably the strongest force user in history- nevertheless, it doesn't make him completely unbeatable. I'd wager that DE Sidious can, at least, challenge him.

Ah, you're right. That 20 sabers at once feat was during the NJO run. Heh. I concede.

Although I think a duel with Bane might be interesting, and if Mace doesn't use Vaapad, that Mace would go down like Anoon did.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
You are correct that Maul is more technically skilled and better physically conditioned than Luke Skywalker- what you are not correct about is the fact that Skywalker is- when empowered by the force- faster, stronger, with superior reflexes. By F*CKING LIGHTYEARS. Maul cannot, in any shape and form, contend with Luke, who is far faster (seemingly wielded 20 sabers at once to destroy a Yuuzhan Vong army. An incredible feat) and simply a greater swordsman- the above mentioned feat curbstomps any of Maul's own.

Yeah, Maul is good, but he is NOT a match for top-tier duelists like Yoda, Sidious (who outclassed Maul, despite holding back and not trying to kill him, while Maul- a physical beast, who would only use to pain to empower himself, in a manner certain Sith do), Mace, Bane, or Luke. Not even close.

If anything, Maul is overrated.

Edit: Well, Faunus, I agree that Luke at his peak is probably the strongest force user in history- nevertheless, it doesn't make him completely unbeatable. I'd wager that DE Sidious can, at least, challenge him.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Although I think a duel with Bane might be interesting, and if Mace doesn't use Vaapad, that Mace would go down like Anoon did.

Originally posted by Faunus
Bane would own Maul. Mace - more technically skilled than Maul, and physically stronger to boot - would, too. You're overrating him considerably.

Bane would own Maul. I agree. I think it'd be a lot like his Kas'im fight, which was very entertaining.

I seriously disagree that Mace is more technically skilled than Maul. Anoon was more technically skilled than Mace. Look how that turned out. However, Mace would use Vaapad, and kill Maul, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Anoon was more technically skilled than Mace - something that he himself questioned after sparring with said Jedi Knight and Qui-Gon Jinn. You forget, Mace created his own style based on his mastery of Juyo, which, as with Maul and Kas'im and Sidious and every one else, requires "high-level mastery" of multiple forms. Maul never invented his own form, and at twenty-two he hasn't had the time Mace had to develop his skills, although his training under Sidious was more specialized and complete than anything Mace went through.

Even then, Mace is more powerful than Maul. Physically, he's demonstrated far greater strength, although I would not go so far as to say that he's a superior physical specimen. I don't think I could name another SW character with Maul's conditioning and rigor of training. Mace also has the shatterpoint charism, as Gideon would put it, on his side.

So yes, he would solidly defeat Maul, if not all that easily.

Originally posted by Faunus
Nicely said.

Thxies. 😉

Originally posted by Faunus
Of course Sidious could challenge him. I just don't think he has a shot at winning, just as I feel about the Yoda vs. DE Sidious scenario. A lot of people could fight Luke without just getting run down.

Well, DN Luke SHOULD take on Sidious- however, considering that even Caedus, who isn't Sidious by any means, was able to damage Luke during their fight, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Sidious doesn't stand a chance at winning. It's not a great chance, but I believe he could beat Luke, or at least injure him.

Then again, that's just speculation, and overall, Luke > DE Sidious.

Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?

To be fair, Luke was already wounded from his much earlier duel with Lumiya, something that Jacen took advantage of immediately with a roundhouse kick to the bandaging on his chest. He had lung damage, you know, like smoking plasma.

Plus, Jacen noted that he'd set up weapons and traps in the event of Luke's arrival - he used them, if you missed it, and that's the only reason he survived.

A fresh Luke against a Jacen who didn't have the entire arena rigged wouldn't be such a drawn out battle.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?

Originally posted by Faunus
To be fair, Luke was already wounded from his much earlier duel with Lumiya, something that Jacen took advantage of immediately with a roundhouse kick to the bandaging on his chest. He had lung damage, you know, like smoking plasma.

Plus, Jacen noted that he'd set up weapons and traps in the event of Luke's arrival - he used them, if you missed it, and that's the only reason he survived.

A fresh Luke against a Jacen who didn't have the entire arena rigged wouldn't be such a drawn out battle.

Well, you got some good points there. Still, it doesn't mean that Luke will curbstomp Jacen in a 'fair' battle.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?

I like that point. I'd probably support what Faunus said regarding it. Especially if it's after RoT, when he basically has a fresh body (his skin was basically pink like a new born's), tons of Force knowledge, and a decade more to practice his saber technique since his non-orbalisk days in PoD.

Dooku becomes a viable threat in a duel, although no longer as much in the Force contest

I don't necessarily agree with that. Yes, electricity are the orbalisks' weakness, but it should be noted that it took Bane's own lightning, meant to kill, redirected upon him at point blank range, to damage him so severely. Even then, not all of the orbalisks were dead. Not even most of them. From what we see in the book, Bane's lightning is practically near Sidious' level - far beyond what Dooku's demonstrated.

Very true on the subject of Bane. However, his little orbalisk power moding is gone big time...while he's still an incredible combatant, he can't just bull into opponents and bat sabers aside with his limbs. he has to devote himself to defense.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, you got some good points there. Still, it doesn't mean that Luke will curbstomp Jacen in a 'fair' battle.

Skywalker only demonstrates truly peerless lightsaber skills in The Unifying Force, which is the last book of the New Jedi Order series. In just a few books prior, he's getting his ass kicked by a random Dark Jedi despite having two seasoned warriors on his side. In fact, it is arguable that his state in NJO was a temporary oneness of the Force -- a deus ex machina he demonstrates in Dark Empire and that Jacen Solo also demonstrates in NJO. There is no logic to his sudden increase in skill. By LotF is he the greatest combatant ever? I can concede that.

But someone like Yoda and Sidious (and a few others) would manhandle Skywalker throughout most of NJO.

Originally posted by Gideon
Skywalker only demonstrates truly peerless lightsaber skills in The Unifying Force, which is the last book of the New Jedi Order series. In just a few books prior, he's getting his ass kicked by a random Dark Jedi despite having two seasoned warriors on his side. In fact, it is arguable that his state in NJO was a temporary oneness of the Force -- a deus ex machina he demonstrates in Dark Empire and that Jacen Solo also demonstrates in NJO. There is no logic to his sudden increase in skill. By LotF is he the greatest combatant ever? I can concede that.

But someone like Yoda and Sidious (and a few others) would manhandle Skywalker throughout most of NJO.

Woo! Validation! lol

Originally posted by Gideon
There is no logic to his sudden increase in skill.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's a good thought: Who could challenge Bane when he's got no orbalisks?

Originally posted by Faunus
Not "curbstomp," but he would win comfortably, especially with what we see him do in Invincible. He's badass again, like he was in TUF.

Yeth, basically.