Originally posted by fangirl101Im using him to prove a point to you.
Thanos isn't in this thread. And Orion was stalemating Superman recently using brute strength and speed and skill. Surely I'm talking about the AF one shotting Superman or Surfer. what are you talking about?
Did you read about Orion's battle with Superman in dong?
So,since you say the astro force can oneshot the Surfer I am just supposed to believe you. Based on?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Im using him to prove a point to you.Did you read about Orion's battle with Superman in dong?
So,since you say the astro force can oneshot the Surfer I am just supposed to believe you. Based on?
You don't believe anyone based upon anything if it's a dc charcter vs a marvel one or against Thanos or anything or anyone thanos based or related. This conversation ends.
Originally posted by fangirl101I give dc characters wins over marvel ones all the time. I knew you werent basing this oneshot theory off of anything, by the way.
You don't believe anyone based upon anything if it's a dc charcter vs a marvel one or against Thanos or anything or anyone thanos based or related. This conversation ends.
Thor beats Surfer, just as he always has.
Orion beats Hal, because even the greatest GL of all isn't as battle-capable as Orion.
Black Adam beats Superman because he has equal strength, speed, invulnerability and senses plus has a slight magic advantage and is more brutal.
Every battle is tough, but Team 2 wins it.
Originally posted by DesaadI agree that team 2 wins,but isnt the only victory that Thor holds over Surfer from the blood and thunder arc?
Thor beats Surfer, just as he always has.Orion beats Hal, because even the greatest GL of all isn't as battle-capable as Orion.
Black Adam beats Superman because he has equal strength, speed, invulnerability and senses plus has a slight magic advantage and is more brutal.
Every battle is tough, but Team 2 wins it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree that team 2 wins,but isnt the only victory that Thor holds over Surfer from the blood and thunder arc?
It is the only technical victory.
But when Surfer goes up against Thor in v1 of Surfer's title, he's being amped by Loki and he is beating Thor. However, he makes it very clear that Thor, and Thor's hammer, is more powerful than he normally is (which is why he is confused that he is winning the battle...he can sense that Thor is more powerful than his Cosmic Power).
So I consider that, if not a win, a clear indication that Thor WOULD have won that fight on fair terms.
Originally posted by SoljerAnd It matters not as Orion has also gotten more powerful. Or didn't you notice that orion has matched superman blow for blow.
Not to defend Quan, but that scan is history. Quite literally. That was like the first meeting between Superman and Orion - Superman's become steadily much more powerful since then.
Originally posted by Desaad
It is the only technical victory.But when Surfer goes up against Thor in v1 of Surfer's title, he's being amped by Loki and he is beating Thor. However, he makes it very clear that Thor, and Thor's hammer, is more powerful than he normally is (which is why he is confused that he is winning the battle...he can sense that Thor is more powerful than his Cosmic Power).
So I consider that, if not a win, a clear indication that Thor WOULD have won that fight on fair terms.
Wasnt that like their first meeting? Surfer of that era could get his enrgy absorbed on the fly by iron man and was nowhere near as powerful as recent pre- annihalation surfer let alone current upgraded surfer. Really i dont think that fight shud be used when comparing the two characters anymore considering the amount of changes and improvements that have occurred over the years. Thor does not have the enrgy /matter manip feats that SS has. Also while he has displayed alot of exotic powers he uses them nowhere near as efficiently or frequently as SS. SS also has the glaring speed advantage and IMO a durability advantage as well. Thors major advantage is his superior strength and fighting skill but aside that SS has him beat in almost evry other category.
Back on topic, regarding this fight team 1 wins. SS is the most powerful character in the field and superman has the best battle speed and is physically the strongest.
Originally posted by Desaad
It is the only technical victory.But when Surfer goes up against Thor in v1 of Surfer's title, he's being amped by Loki and he is beating Thor. However, he makes it very clear that Thor, and Thor's hammer, is more powerful than he normally is (which is why he is confused that he is winning the battle...he can sense that Thor is more powerful than his Cosmic Power).
So I consider that, if not a win, a clear indication that Thor WOULD have won that fight on fair terms.
Exactly, anyhow this is how I see the fight.
Thor>SS
Orion=Superman
BA>Jordan
Due to supes and orion stalemating, I give team 2 6/10
Originally posted by ultimatethor
[B]Wasnt that like their first meeting?
Yes.
Surfer of that era could get his enrgy absorbed on the fly by iron man and was nowhere near as powerful as recent pre- annihalation surfer let alone current upgraded surfer.
The fact that it is old doesn't discount it -- it's in continuity. Yes, same as those Iron Man showings.
Current upgraded Surfer got put into an Arm-bar by Black Panther and held there, and got his energy totally absorbed on the fly by Black Panther as well -- without any of the negative side effects we saw when Iron Man did it back in those good ole days.
Really i dont think that fight shud be used when comparing the two characters anymore considering the amount of changes and improvements that have occurred over the years.
I don't agree. It's continuity, it still counts.
Thor does not have the enrgy /matter manip feats that SS has.
He has quite a few, actually, including driving Galactus -- Silver Surfer's creator -- away with a Godblast.
Does he have as many versatility feats as the Surfer? No. Because the Surfer uses versatility more often, that tends to be his 'thing'.
But in terms of BATTLE feats, Thor is much more a warrior than is the Surfer, much better equipped for this type of thing.
Also while he has displayed alot of exotic powers he uses them nowhere near as efficiently or frequently as SS. SS also has the glaring speed advantage and IMO a durability advantage as well.
I don't agree with the durability advantage. Thor's resistance to blunt trauma and energy is prodigous. Only to piercing/sharp objects does he tend to be weak (and the same can be said for Thanos, who has totally destroyed Surfer on a number of occasions).
Thors major advantage is his superior strength and fighting skill but aside that SS has him beat in almost evry other category.
As the Surfer himself admits, Thor's raw power is also greater than the Surfer's.
The fact that Surfer often times doesn't use his versatility in battle also comes into play here.
Originally posted by Desaad
Yes.The fact that it is old doesn't discount it -- it's in continuity. Yes, same as those Iron Man showings.
Current upgraded Surfer got put into an Arm-bar by Black Panther and held there, and got his energy totally absorbed on the fly by Black Panther as well -- without any of the negative side effects we saw when Iron Man did it back in those good ole days.
I don't agree. It's continuity, it still counts.
He has quite a few, actually, including driving Galactus -- Silver Surfer's creator -- away with a Godblast.
Does he have as many versatility feats as the Surfer? No. Because the Surfer uses versatility more often, that tends to be his 'thing'.
But in terms of BATTLE feats, Thor is much more a warrior than is the Surfer, much better equipped for this type of thing.
I don't agree with the durability advantage. Thor's resistance to blunt trauma and energy is prodigous. Only to piercing/sharp objects does he tend to be weak (and the same can be said for Thanos, who has totally destroyed Surfer on a number of occasions).
As the Surfer himself admits, Thor's raw power is also greater than the Surfer's.
The fact that Surfer often times doesn't use his versatility in battle also comes into play here.
Ok seriously how can u use a thor and surfer fight that happened when surfer was nowhere close to the level he is currently at? Im not discounting the fact that it is continuity but frankly it cant be used considering because the surfer has gotten way more powerful since those days. Whether it is in continuity or not is of absolutely no consequence because SS was nowhere near as powerful then as he is now. In essence using SS and thors first encounter to determine who wud win in a fight between the current incarnations of the characters is equivalent to disregarding all the upgrades and improvements SS has had over the years which have made much much much more powerful than he was during his first encounter with thor.
Nextly that whole blackpanther incident was complete PIS and should NEVER be referenced in any debate. This shud be common knowledge by now. Also BP used Dr dooms tech to absorb SS enrgy. Dr doom has managed to do the same to galactus and even the beyonder so that is hardly a bad feat. It is in no way comparable to SS getting his enrgy absorbed by iron mans armour( And iron man was much weaker in those days).
Also i maintain my stance that thor does NOT have the matter and enrgy manipulation feats that SS has. Im a big thor fan and ive seen most of his best feats. Driving off a severely weakened Galactus with a Godblast is great and so is cracking exitars armour. Howver he has nowhere near the quantity of feats that SS has when it comes to skillful application of enrgy and matter manipulation powers. SS has shown that he has matter manipulation powers on the planetary scale multiple times. Evolving an entire planet billions of years into the future,Deactivating all the machines on earth and causing perpetual darkness across the planet and healing an entire planet of a dangerous disease affecting them on a molecular level are gud examples of this. Also SS molecular bonding legacy with the nega bands to his board also shows his high molecular manipulation abilities. SS also has feats to show he is a superior enrgy manipulator like while severely weakened Channeling the enrgies of the crunch in order to defeat Tenebrous and Aegis. A feat which galactus admitted wud be difficult for evn him. Also SS showed that he can even manipulate the Odin force when he recreated beta ray bills hammer. A feat which thor himself wud have bin unable to do.
Thor is a warrior and in a physical battle he wud take SS for sure. This is why i have a problem with most encounters between SS and thor because SS seems to always attack thor physically and then get bashed by thors hammer instead of using his other powers. Heck in blood and thunder he evn got into a test of strength with thor. Howver if SS uses his speed and versatiliy advantage he wud easily nullify thors strength and fighting skill advantages.
Durability wise i know thor is right up there but SS still takes it when it comes to feats. Taking numerous aimed to kill blasts and hits from tenebrous and Aegis who are peers with Galactus without being koed trumps all the thors durability feats. Thanos destroying SS on numerous occassions is highly irrelevant as thanos has shown he can hold his own with thors father Odin. In other words he is on a whole nother level than either SS or thor.
In their first meeting, surfer might have admitted that thors raw power was greater than his, but this statement cannot be applied here for numerous reasons. Firstly it came from a surfer who had his powers restricted due to his banishement to earth by galactus. Also the statement came b4 surfers numerous upgrades and was from an era where SS was far less powerful. Lastly SS feats since then prove this statement to be false and inapplicable concerning his current incarnation.
Surfer also does use his versatility( Enrgy absorption, matter manip,) in battle. He does not use it as frequently as he shud but this is because SS is a pacifist and detests any form of violence and so willingly holds back during most of his fights. On KMc howver, he will fight to the best of his abilities.
Originally posted by DesaadI just think in blood and thunder arc that Thor had a plot device in his corner. Kinda like a Superman going all out. The writers can make him more formidable. I think if the Surfer went all out and was as vicious as Thor in blood and thunder that he would beat Thor. But,I do agree that Thor matches up very well against the Surfer. Its close.
It is the only technical victory.But when Surfer goes up against Thor in v1 of Surfer's title, he's being amped by Loki and he is beating Thor. However, he makes it very clear that Thor, and Thor's hammer, is more powerful than he normally is (which is why he is confused that he is winning the battle...he can sense that Thor is more powerful than his Cosmic Power).
So I consider that, if not a win, a clear indication that Thor WOULD have won that fight on fair terms.
Re: Re: Silver Surfer/Hal Jordan/Superman vs. Thor/Orion/Black Adam
Originally posted by Soljer
Team one.Surfer > Thor, Orion, Black Adam
Hal > Orion, Thor, Black Adam
Superman > Black Adam, Thor, Orion
Superman >thor..........Yes if thor is not using his head. And decides to be stupid and brawl.
Superman> orion.........nope
Superman> black adam............Only if superman loweres himself to BA's level. and is willing to kill. Superman has never one shoted or beat BA ever. If supes fights dirty then yes hes > then black adam.
I think this fight could go either way.