Lucas' own words often indicate he pretty much believes Vader to be rather weak as a duelist. Everyone in the OT, actually; except for the Emperor assumedly.
What exactly does Vader do in TFU that makes him stand out so much? I really haven't been following it much. But if anything, the OT's portait of Vader is more true to character than TFU's, it being a video game and all.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Alas, thank ye. 😛
I decree ye be welcome.
EDIT:
z0MG, forgot smiley! 😄
Originally posted by Advent
Nope, I just made it up as a late April's Fool joke...haha?There are two sources indicating Vader was hardpressed,
1) ANH Commentary. Lucas says exactly what I wrote he said, "hard fight to fight".
2) Star Wars Insider #62, the Fight Saber article says that he couldn't break Kenobi's defenses until he let him.
So it was a stalemate in the end. As for the being equals with Luke,
1) the ROTJ comic book says it was a "battle of equals" unlike the duel on Bespin. Note that the narrator states that--if anything--Luke had the upperhand rather than Vader. As well as implying that Luke was reluctant, it outright says that Vader was giving it his all.
2) Upon turning to the Fight Saber article again, it also states as much ("able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing", this is not about when he goes batshit insane either). Also written is that OT Vader is at the height of his powers.
Oddly enough, Vader doesn't really seem THAT bad in the EU...Rise of Darth Vader, he kills quite a few Jedi, in Purge, he takes on about 4-5 at once, in Tales, he kills the Dark Woman and is, in Palpatine's words, the greatest Jedi killer in history.
In fact, the Death Star book indicates that Vader is going to kill Kenobi and he's too much for him.
I realize Vader is usually shown to be a talented fighter and he is, but you have to ask: against who? Did he just use his lightsaber? Did he dominate? For instance, the Dark Woman would've been out-of-practice for nearly two decades... giving her diminished skills. And Vader didn't rely entirely on his lightsaber, from what I remember. She also put up a good fight.
I'm not saying he isn't good, but hardly on the grand scale. I'm only discussing his saber abilities, mind you. In the Force, he's certainly higher up.
By the way, what does DS say exactly, Lightsnake?
Well, with saber abilities, he's pretty darn good as Purge and RoDV showed...I mean, not balls off the wall incredible, but good enough to kill a vast majority of combatants.
As for Death Star, I don't have it off hand, but it pretty much made clear Vader was pretty superior to Obi and he was going to finish it-his strength in the Dark Side being too much for Ben.
I advise checking the book out, though. If you know where to get it online, you could point out if I'm wrong
Originally posted by Advent
Nope, I just made it up as a late April's Fool joke...haha?There are two sources indicating Vader was hardpressed,
1) ANH Commentary. Lucas says exactly what I wrote he said, "hard fight to fight".
2) Star Wars Insider #62, the Fight Saber article says that he couldn't break Kenobi's defenses until he let him.
So it was a stalemate in the end. As for the being equals with Luke,
1) the ROTJ comic book says it was a "battle of equals" unlike the duel on Bespin. Note that the narrator states that--if anything--Luke had the upperhand rather than Vader. As well as implying that Luke was reluctant, it outright says that Vader was giving it his all.
2) Upon turning to the Fight Saber article again, it also states as much ("able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing", this is not about when he goes batshit insane either). Also written is that OT Vader is at the height of his powers.
Oh, I think I'm in love.
Marry me? Please?
Originally posted by AdventWell, being able to ragdoll an exceptionally powerful jedi, ram khota that could block attacks that were described in the ultimate visual guide as "impossible"(gideon brought this up, its somewhere in the EU section) and causually choking kota that sent a massive tie fighter facility into critical condition with one force move.What exactly does Vader do in TFU that makes him stand out so much? I really haven't been following it much. But if anything, the OT's portait of Vader is more true to character than TFU's, it being a video game and all.
I recall him giving starkiller a very hard ass beating before ultimately crushed under two massive pillars that starkiller toppled on him, and starkiller is an incredible combatant that gave sidious an ass beating, killed hundreds of storm troopers, toppled militaty vehicles and alot more.
Vader was shown to topple massive structures on the wookie homeworld and he ragdolled starkillers father and broke his neck pretty easily.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but most of this came from the comic and novel.
But i thought lucas wanted the jedi to be portrayed that way? Like it was in the CW cartoons?
EDIT
Forgot to mention that starkiller was also an exceptional saber duelist and he couldn't really dominate or beat vader in that category.
TFU makes his Force powers look good, but I was referring to his lightsaber abilities. He's immensely powerful in the Force, I don't doubt that one iota. Definitely deadly and combat capable, nonetheless. Going by what you wrote, TFU proves that.
I don't think Starkiller can really be considered so great if he can't beat Vader in a duel. Like I said, TFU is a video game, ROTJ is the gospel.
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
But i thought lucas wanted the jedi to be portrayed that way? Like it was in the CW cartoons?
In a lot of interviews, segments and the ANH commentary, he seems to put down most of the the OT characters. In the Prime of the Jedi interview (or at least, the segment where he mentions the PT being the Prime of the Jedi), he flat out calls Vader, Kenobi, etc. "not real Jedi".
And he pretty much has acknowledged that Vader isn't very capable against truly great duelists. He could probably beat half of the Jedi and Sith ever to exist, yes. But against the notable ones? Not so much.
"Hard ass beating"? Hardly. They were evenly matched with lightsabers, at least (Starkiller sliced his respiratory system in half, essentially.) then Gavin got pissed and collapsed the pillars over him.
Every time vader won the fights it was when he took him by surprise or when Gavin was a kid... the only time that they fought 1 on 1 fairly Gavin wrecked him...
Originally posted by Enyalus
As in, it's only accurate if you are black or high (or probably both).
**** the win?
I've been told I look like Jesus. Numerous times.
There was a little Earthquake here a couple minutes ago. My dog freaked out and bit my leg. Just thought you should know that.
People, I never said that Vader wasn't powerful! He is, but I'm sure Obi-Wan and Yoda would tool him with a saber in their respective primes.
Anyone who says otherwise is a foo'mo. 😂
Originally posted by NonSensi-KlownEvenly matched? Have you read what gideon typed? That vader nearly throttled starkiller to death in a saber duel and a force fight?
"Hard ass beating"? Hardly. They were evenly matched with lightsabers, at least (Starkiller sliced his respiratory system in half, essentially.) then Gavin got pissed and collapsed the pillars over him.
Originally posted by EnyalusThe thing is ram IS powerful, how many jedi or sith had the capabilities to crush an entire tie fighter facility with relative ease as well as block attacks that were described by the ultimate visual guide to be impossible to defend against?
Also, calling Rahm Kota an 'exceptionally powerful Jedi' is like calling me God.As in, it's only accurate if you are black or high (or probably both).
By the way, you ARE god.. but only in your imagination and fantasies 😉
Originally posted by EnyalusThat is because your a hippie and always walking around wearing robes 😖I've been told I look like Jesus. Numerous times.