Jim Hammond(torch) VS. Scott Summers(cyclops) H2H

lol. see, you guys need to learn a bit more about this "unknown" before you go assuming i made a one sided match.

jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Please. Don't refer to me to as some newbie who's never picked up a comic book. I personally love choosing an unknown...IF they deserve to/can actually win.

In this case, he doesn't/can't.

this is in no way a one-sided match.in fact, i think cyke could take a few out of 10, but when it comes down to it, physical superioty plays a part in any encounter, despite how skilled a person is.

cyke is more skilled than hammond. not denying that at all, but hammond is by far no slouch. his h2h mentor should convince you of that. cyke may outclass him in h2h, but cyke is physically outmatched. hammond is a compact 300 pounder. he tosses thugs around like ragdolls, even before he had a day of training in h2h. he naturally had the edge against any normal human being. he's dodged gunfire and easily disabled men with guns h2h.he's stronger than cyke and he's faster than cyke, but he's still within the limitations of what is humanly possible, concerning speed and strength. now durablity is another thing. i've already explained how hammond's durablity works, he can't sustain any "life" threatening damage from cyke by any means of the physical, but he can be KOed by a human, that's been proven more than once.

jim hammond has the edge simply because he's physically superior and things like breaking his ribs of something with a kick are out of the question.cyke has the skill advantage here, but i honestly don't think the skill gap can compensate for all that.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i gotta feeling he likes Cyclops very much 😆

* c'mon man, Cyclops is not a fan favorite like Wolverine, Batman, Superman, Spider-man, etc... in fact, he is one of the most underrated Marvel characters, Whedon even sees him as a team washout for several years...

* Cyclops seemed to be popular and gaining lot of supporters is because out of respect... not fanboyism...

* no feats? comics showed Scott kicked asses of 5-6 thugs [b]eyes closed incorporating fighting styles of his teammates... he is an Aikido & Judo expert, engages extensive traning exercises of normal men...

* pitting Scott against "unknown" with super-durability is still a spite 🤨 [/B]

again, learn to read the posts. i saw cyke's fight with the thugs blind a long time ago, i explained that hammond had a similar feat, but more impressive. the thugs he took on were armed with various weapons, and he was blinded and disorientated by gas.

i find it hilarious how some are calling this match one sided and unfairly made in hammond's favor..........but all the votes have still have gone to cyclops...........and i'm the one operating based on favortism?

😆 i guess some might wanna examine themselves before they choose to assume someone is be biased and doing things based on favortism

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol. see, you guys need to learn a bit more about this "unknown" before you go assuming i made a one sided match.

jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. [B]there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying? [/B]

... 🤨

So, you basically admitted creating a very one-sided spite thread? Nice job. 👆

Oh, and I did make up my mind, I never flip-flopped. I understood that Jim has superhuman durability, but still gave the fight to Cyclops, even in this obviously-biased match up. Why, you ask? Because regardless of Jim's durability (by the way, can you show some proof of this?), Cyke has the necessary skill to put him down. This is also despite this superhuman strength (proof again, please)? I've just looked through your entire respect thread and still haven't found anything that would considered superhuman strength/durability when NOT ignited. In fact, you even state in your own respect thread that Jim was human resistance when not ignited.

Also, Samson the strong man (in your respect thread) was handing it to Jim until Jim ignited himself, which then gave him the arguable win in that fight. And if Samson could do it, Cyke could just as well. And not one of those scans showed me anything that would come close to equating to Cyke's skills. He's a brawler and there's nothing wrong with that. But it just won't cut it against Cyke's refined skill.

I mean no disrespect towards Jim. I've always liked him myself, though I admit that I didn't read too much of his stuff. You've put together a great respect thread, too, one that will definitely be praised for some time.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
... 🤨

So, you basically admitted creating a very one-sided spite thread? Nice job. 👆

Oh, and I did make up my mind, I never flip-flopped. I understood that Jim has superhuman durability, but still gave the fight to Cyclops, even in this obviously-biased match up. Why, you ask? Because regardless of Jim's durability (by the way, can you show some proof of this?), Cyke has the necessary skill to put him down. This is also despite this superhuman strength (proof again, please)? I've just looked through your entire respect thread and still haven't found anything that would considered superhuman strength/durability when NOT ignited. In fact, you even state in your own respect thread that Jim was human resistance when not ignited.

Also, Samson the strong man (in your respect thread) was handing it to Jim until Jim ignited himself, which then gave him the arguable win in that fight. And if Samson could do it, Cyke could just as well. And not one of those scans showed me anything that would come close to equating to Cyke's skills. He's a brawler and there's nothing wrong with that. But it just won't cut it against Cyke's refined skill.

I mean no disrespect towards Jim. I've always liked him myself, though I admit that I didn't read too much of his stuff. You've put together a great respect thread, too, one that will definitely be praised for some time.

you didn't see the part where thena telekentically slamed him against a wall and he wasn't Koed or harmed? or the time he was shot up and then fine right after?

superficial damage that makes him seem more human, that what jim hammond sustains. his body is identical to the vision's, there's no way cyke could physically cause any harm to his android body.....as in fatal harm or even any internal harm at all.but like i stated in the thread, he sometimes seems to have human resistance, but only due to the fact that he was made to be a synthetic, and mimic human limitations.

my quote exactly from my thread:

"while not ignited,he seems to have regular human resistance(not always)."

he's never been truly injured by any human though, just KOed(goes along with the sustaining superficial damage thing).if he had truly only had human resistance, then thena wouldn't splattered him all over that wall.

that fight with samson was before torch ever laid eyes on captain america. before he had any training at all. and when he was early in his career.and he still gave the strong man a run in a h2h fight i didn't post......i didn't post it because he lost, but he faired very well before he even had over 4 decades of combat experience and training from steve rogers like he does now.oh, and that was the only straight-up h2h bout he ever lost.

i don't think this is an easy win for anybody, so i obviously didn't make a one-sided match.plus idk how i can make a one-sided match that the other opponent according to you wins in the first place????

anyway i think jim takes the majority, because he's had far more experience, he's been trained by marvel's virtual best, he has superhuman endurance(with distinct limitations), and he's physically superior to cyke. the gap in skill here really isn't enough to compensate for all jim's advantages. i really don't believe the gap is that big anyway. he's had training from cap and a few decades to home his acquired skill.

oh, and all those golden age h2h encounters you were looking at were before he had any training. there's not one fighter out there who can claim to be such a good natural fighter. it's uncanny. thugs with guns were no match, even before he was "refined".

now he has training and more years of experience than scott has years of life. he was always a brawler, better than any natural brawler, but now he's a skilled and experienced fighter taught by captain america himself. those scans were decades before now, and he still had feats comparable to cyke's, even when he was a "brawler".

the most impressive h2h feat i've ever seen from cyke is the blinded 6 guy feat thing, jim hammond has done things similar. he's taken guys blinded and disorientated from gas.......when the guys had weapons.

edit:

You've put together a great respect thread, too, one that will definitely be praised for some time.

oh, and thanks.not so sure about that second part though.

This is also despite this superhuman strength (proof again, please)

proof.........from my thread. straight from the androids mouth:

"i could hardly forget that you homo sapiens are a lot more fragile than us androids"

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders001-20.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby
you guys have to learn to read the information put out there for you. it is in no way impossible for cyke to KO hammond, even though he is super-durable. i believe i explained it before you even posted, but i explained again in more detail just 2 posts back.......even if i didn't before, the info is readily available to anyone willing to take the time to learn about a character they're considering in a vs topic.

[b]again, learn to read the posts. i saw cyke's fight with the thugs blind a long time ago, i explained that hammond had a similar feat, but more impressive. the thugs he took on were armed with various weapons, and he was blinded and disorientated by gas. [/B]

* 🤨 how in the blue hell can't this be a spite thread? you pit one regular character against another with super-durability? moreso, in H2H? are you freakin' insane? 😛

* in the interest of fairness, why don't you tell us how can Scott KO Jim, and you would get the result you need, 🙂

you're apparently writing, so i assume you're not illiterate:

jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

superficial damage that makes him seem more human, that what jim hammond sustains. his body is identical to the vision's, there's no way cyke could physically cause any harm to his android body.....as in fatal harm or even any internal harm at all.but like i stated in the thread, he sometimes seems to have human resistance, but only due to the fact that he was made to be a synthetic, and mimic human limitations.

learn how to read the posts.oh, and i guess i'll go ahead and quote this too:

i find it hilarious how some are calling this match one sided and unfairly made in hammond's favor..........but all the votes have still have gone to cyclops...........and i'm the one operating based on favortism?

i guess some might wanna examine themselves before they choose to assume someone is be biased and doing things based on favortism

Originally posted by namorsubby
you're apparently writing, so i assume you're not illiterate:

* same as you are, pal, same as you are...

Originally posted by namorsubby
ok? maybe something to go by. like a feat or two. maybe?

i'm pretty sure hammond is stronger than cyke. and he's super-durable without his flame. he's been trained by steve rogers as well. he probably was modeled after a prime human specimen, or peak human, seeing as he always seemed to have a natural edge against any h2h opponent, even before he was trained by cap.

* i'm sure you know the difference between "durable" and "super-durable"...

Originally posted by namorsubby
who ever said wonder man was hurt? like a said jim has human limitations, he can't [b]hurt wonder man, but it was the fact that he engaged him h2h and was fast enough to strike him although he has enhanced reflexes.

hammond wins.scott is more skilled, but not far more skilled.......not at all. it's not like cap just gave jim a few pointers here and there. he was with cap for years. besides that he has at least 4 decades of combat experience. jim is also physically superior to cyke, not to mention he's super durable and has demostrated a healing factor before.
the skill gap isn't nearly enough here to make up for all that. besides that, cyke doesn't have the feats. the most impressive feat i've ever seen from cyke was taking a few unarmed thugs with his eyes closed.jim has done something similar, except he was blinded, disorientated, and nausceous from gas..........and the guys had weapons.

the feat with wolverine vs cyke is shaky. that fight was extremely circumstancial.

besides, thena is faster and far more durable than wolvie, and jim managed to hook her pretty good........not to mention enduring her slamming him hard into a wall with telekenesis......without any signs of injury or a KO.

when you see an unknown vs a fan fav in a thread, you might want to consider the feats/stats thrown out there for you, instead of picking the one you are most familiar with.

hammond FTW [/B]

* yeah, as sure as you say "hammond FTW", this really is a spite... H2H battle: Cyke versus someone who has super-durability & healing factor... 🙄

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol. see, you guys need to learn a bit more about this "unknown" before you go assuming i made a one sided match.

jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

* yeah, sure, i get it... you pit your favorite character against someone not in his level (no super-durability, no healing factor) and say "hammond FTW"... what can i say? hurray? 😛

Originally posted by namorsubby
i really don't think you're in much of a position to say what hammond can and can't do. what do you know about him besides what i have so graciouly provided for you.besides that, first you say he can't win, then you say that the match is unfair, which means you're saying he can. make up your mind already.

this is in no way a one-sided match.in fact, i think cyke could take a few out of 10, but when it comes down to it, physical superioty plays a part in any encounter, despite how skilled a person is.

cyke is more skilled than hammond. not denying that at all, but hammond is by far no slouch. his h2h mentor should convince you of that. cyke may outclass him in h2h, but cyke is [b]physically outmatched. hammond is a compact 300 pounder. he tosses thugs around like ragdolls, even before he had a day of training in h2h. he naturally had the edge against any normal human being. he's dodged gunfire and easily disabled men with guns h2h.he's stronger than cyke and he's faster than cyke, but he's still within the limitations of what is humanly possible, concerning speed and strength. now durablity is another thing. i've already explained how hammond's durablity works, he can't sustain any "life" threatening damage from cyke by any means of the physical, but he can be KOed by a human, that's been proven more than once.

jim hammond has the edge simply because he's physically superior and things like breaking his ribs of something with a kick are out of the question.cyke has the skill advantage here, but i honestly don't think the skill gap can compensate for all that. [/B]

* yeah, and convince yourself that this isn't a spite thread either... and oh, the thug-tossing like ragdolls... wow...

* anyway, seriously, if you still want an honest result, i'd say Cyclops 2-3/10, Human Torch 7-8/10... peace brother! 🙂

what, no underlining the parts like "he can and has been Koed by a human" and "cyke can KO him" ? 😆

i'd say torch around 7/10. but yeah, he's an android. they may feel pain and have the "ability" to be KOed like any other human.........but they are made a lot tougher. facts of life and what not, i suppose.

oh......and you should know that everyone's favorite character is spider-man.......then batman(you know how fond i am of him.lol)

namor and deadshot proabably take a place above jim too.sorry

* spidey & batman go interchangeably... you can also add cap & wolverine to the mix...

* how about a battle of Jim Hammond & Johnny Storm then? 🙂

So wait you're asking us if Cyclops can beat someone that is stronger, more durable, faster with a healing factor? You're asking us if he can beat someone that you said that he can't really harm. You're asking us if he can beat someone that you claims physically outmatches Cyclops in a straight H2H fight.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So wait you're asking us if Cyclops can beat someone that is stronger, more durable, faster with a healing factor? You're asking us if he can beat someone that you said that he can't really harm. You're asking us if he can beat someone that you claims physically outmatches Cyclops in a straight H2H fight.

oh, and yes, that's what i'm asking. true hammond is all of those things to cyke, but you have to remember, he's physically superior,but still within the limitations of what a human can do, refering to speed and strength. the only reason i brought up the super-durability thing was to make the argument that cyke can't disable him by inflicting internal damage and breaking ribs and what not. cyke is still completely capable of KOing him.....other people have. hammond still bleeds and bruises......but his insides are sythetic and constructed of materials cyke can't destroy.that's what i was trying to get across......but i apparently did something wrong.

i still think this would be a good match.......cyke is more trained and better skilled......although with far less experience.

Originally posted by peejayd
* spidey & batman go interchangeably... you can also add cap & wolverine to the mix...

* how about a battle of Jim Hammond & Johnny Storm then? 🙂

oh, and jim engages and holds his own against the likes of namor regularly.......who has given johnny and his entire "fam" a really hard time in the past.

i made this vs topic:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492209

OK wait a minute. First you say that Cyke can't really harm him but then you say Cyke can KO him. How can you KO someone that you can't really harm?

i believe i have multiple posts explaining this:

jim hammond has super-durablity.......true. but jim hammond also can be KOed by a human. there's no way cyke could "harm" hammond at all........as in cause him any real damage, but KO him, sure.hammond has a way of sustaining superficial damage that makes him appear more human.he can be KOed by human effort.......yes.but he could also be KOed hard by someone who could easily kill a human with the slightest tap.......like namor, and he'd be KOed, but not in any real danger of dying, or harm to his android body. you get what i'm saying?

superficial damage that makes him seem more human, that's what jim hammond sustains. his body is identical to the vision's, there's no way cyke could physically cause any harm to his android body.....as in fatal harm or even any internal harm at all.but like i stated in the thread, he sometimes seems to have human resistance, but only due to the fact that he was made to be a synthetic, and mimic human limitations.

hammond is an android made to be a synthetic copy of a human. he's superdurable because despite how human-like he is......he is still made out of parts that are much more durable than any human innerworking.so yes, he bleeds, and he bruises, and he can be KOed with human effort........but this is all do to the fact that he was made to be a human, and he mimics human limitations.there's still no way to overlook the fact that he is still made of super-humanly durable material though. that is why he has super-durability.

everything changes a bit though when he ignites......i won't get into that.

That doesn't explain how someone who you claim can't really harm him can KO him. That's like saying that Jim can't really harm The Juggernaut but he can KO him, which he can't but that's a whole different topic.

*sigh*

jim hammond is a synthetic model of a human being. he mimics human limitations by bleeding, bruising, feeling pain, and being rendered unconscious when exposed to a certain amount of head truama. . he is, however, made of materials much stronger than human material. so cyke cannot hurt him internally like he could a regular human being.