Qui-Gon Jiin(Prime)vs. Galen Marek

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
I wasn't aware of that. mmm

I haven't read the novilization, though.

In the novelization, the only indication about Anakin's massive Force power with respect to Obi-wan is that he's very clearly superior in strength. And hell, I guess this counts for speed, too: at one point, Obi-Wan has both their sabers and pointed at Vader's neck - Vader charges him so fast Obi-Wan can't react. Vader grabs him by the wrists, slams him against the wall and begins literally bending his arms down and backwards to the point where Obi-Wan is sure that he can feel his bones about to snap.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And hell, I guess this counts for speed, too: at one point, Obi-Wan has both their sabers and pointed at Vader's neck - Vader charges him so fast Obi-Wan can't react. Vader grabs him by the wrists, slams him against the wall and begins literally bending his arms down and backwards to the point where Obi-Wan is sure that he can feel his bones about to snap.

Second, Anakin doesn't "charge [Obi-Wan] so fast [he] can't react," he Force-pushes him into the wall.

Third, Anakin's vastly superior raw power doesn't allow him to overpower Kenobi in a Force-push contest. That is not up for debate.

Originally posted by Faunus
First off, that's the point where Kenobi actually hesitates to strike and kill and unarmed Anakin.

I know. And then Anakin rushes him.

Second, Anakin doesn't "charge [Obi-Wan] so fast [he] can't react," he Force-pushes him into the wall.

Okay. I haven't read it in a while. He still manages to close the gap between them tremendously quickly.

Third, Anakin's vastly superior raw power doesn't allow him to overpower Kenobi in a Force-push contest. That is not up for debate.

Never said it did. Or indicated such.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I know. And then Anakin rushes him.

Okay. I haven't read it in a while. He still manages to close the gap between them tremendously quickly.

Never said it did. Or indicated such.

Or just imagining things.

Originally posted by Faunus
Oh. I'm getting my people mixed up, apparently.

Or just imagining things.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He stalemated him in a force push contest. Very different. He was able to use his superior mastery to win a contest of skill. (Force push has to be learned, its not instinctive) Anakin was using the Force instinctively to make himself faster throughout the duel, which is what I was referring to. He is more powerful in the Force, and it showed.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
I wasn't aware of that. mmm

I haven't read the novilization, though.

Me after that:

'In the novelization, the only indication about Anakin's massive Force power with respect to Obi-wan is that he's very clearly superior in strength...'

See?

Originally posted by Faunus
First off, that's the point where Kenobi actually hesitates to strike and kill and unarmed Anakin.

He has him at saberpoint. He is definitely in the dominant position- pausing isn't going to make much of a difference. Anakin rushes him, and manages to avoid the decapitation and put Kenobi's arms in danger of breaking.

Originally posted by Faunus

Second, Anakin doesn't "charge [Obi-Wan] so fast [he] can't react," he Force-pushes him into the wall.

"The flaw of compassion-"
"It's not compassion," Obi-Wan said sadly. "It's reverence for life. Even yours. It's respect for the man you were."
He sighed. "It's regret for the man you should have been."
Anakin roared and flew at him, using both the Force and his body to crash Obi-Wan back into the wall once more. His hands seized Obi-Wan's wrists with impossible strength, forcing his arms wide. "I am so sick of your lectures!"

Make your own conclusions. Mine is that Kenobi didn't have time to react.

Originally posted by Faunus

Third, Anakin's vastly superior raw power doesn't allow him to overpower Kenobi in a Force-push contest. That is not up for debate.

The Force-push contest is a measure of mastery over that technique (Force push) not a flat out comparison of Force strength. Anakin uses the Force much more effectively than Obi-Wan does to empower himself:

Anakin forced him back and back, slamming his blade down with strength that seemed to flow from the volcano overhead.

There can be no doubt that this is Force strength, and that Anakin is stronger than Obi-Wan.

Chosen One > Kenobi (raw force potential-e.g. powering self w/the Force)
Chosen One < Kenobi (Force mastery-e.g. using a Force technique like Force push)

Sabers: Marek 6/10
Force: Marek 100%
All-out Marek 98%

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He has him at saberpoint. He is definitely in the dominant position- pausing isn't going to make much of a difference. Anakin rushes him, and manages to avoid the decapitation and put Kenobi's arms in danger of breaking.

Make your own conclusions. Mine is that Kenobi didn't have time to react.

The Force-push contest is a measure of mastery over that technique (Force push) not a flat out comparison of Force strength. Anakin uses the Force much more effectively than Obi-Wan does to empower himself:

There can be no doubt that this is Force strength, and that Anakin is stronger than Obi-Wan.

Chosen One > Kenobi (raw force potential-e.g. powering self w/the Force)
Chosen One < Kenobi (Force mastery-e.g. using a Force technique like Force push)

there are many many more quotes from that fight implying that Obi-wan MEANT to be driven back and back. They are in a ROTS obi-wan vs. anakin rematch thread that should be pretty easy to find, i don't have time to find them and copy paste them here though.

The one I used, "anakin forces him back and back" etc. was right after the grapple section. Obi does not yet have a location in mind, although he quickly decides to bring the fight out over the lava. Directly after this, Anakin starts shooting "razor sharp" shards of metal at him with the force, and most of the description gives (to me at least) the impression that Anakin was far stronger, physically, than Obi Wan.

but it says he "gave ground in every exchange, it was his way." which you are of course correct, is a direct contradiction to your quote, which claim anakin was FORCING him back. (same sentence isn't it?) hold on... i'll look it up..... again....

'Gave ground' is at the beginning of the fight, him getting forced (pun) back is at about the midway point. Intending to retreat =/= equally strong. I'm only arguing- the only point I have made is that Anakin was physically stronger than Obi-Wan due to his superior Force strength.

okay: no, its clear, anakin "forcing him back and back" is obi-wan's choice.pg. 401. leading INTO YOUR QUOTE (you ignored the sentence before it apparently).... first though:
pg. 397: "In every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground. It was his way. And he knew to strike Anakin down would burn his own heart to ash."
pg. 401: Anakin followed, constantly attakcing; Obi-Wan again gave ground, retreating along a narrow balcony high above the blocksand shoreline of a lake of fire.
Mustafar hummed with death behind his back, only a moment away, somewhere out there among the rivers of molten rock. Obi-wan let anakin drive him toward it. It was a place, he decided, they should reach together. (going into your quote now...)
Anakin forced him bakc and back, slamming his blad down with strength that seemed to flow from the volcano.... etc.

you see now how your quote is completely explained in the paragraph before it? if anakin forced obi-wan anyplace, he did it because obi-wan was giving ground on purpose. gotta be careful not to take those things out of context.

Truejedi, stop being a spaz. He's just offering his opinion.

and now, having posted mine, i see your post, and i agree with you completely. Anakin was stronger than Obi-wan. No problem with that. However, it should be noted that obi-wan's entire style was centered around dealing with a stronger, faster opponent, so he didn't suffer in teh fight from it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Truejedi, stop being a spaz. He's just offering his opinion.

i'm just discussing it.... not even really offering an argument... who's spazzing? the one who replies to a quoted post, or one who steps in to play ref between two people who aren't even really arguing?

Originally posted by truejedi
i'm just discussing it.... not even really offering an argument... who's spazzing? the one who replies to a quoted post, or one who steps in to play ref between two people who aren't even really arguing?

I was kidding. Red used the spaz line on me the other night, so I thought I'd throw it out here in the midst of your 'disagreement' as a means to mock him.

LOL QED

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Shut up Gideon

TJ- I must have sudden onset Dyslexia, that works across a page turn. I was sure that that came later, and I'm looking at the book right now. My bad. The implication of the 'volcano' portion remains that Anakin is stronger than Kenobi.

Obi-Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, beginning to feather toward the greenstick fractures that would come before the final breaks.
Oh, he thought. Oh, this is bad.

Are you really going to argue that Anakin wasn't as strong as Obi-Wan?

Use some of that vast resource of brainpower to master the quote function, sport.

You bold it and put "originally posted by Dark Jaxx" in italics.

That better?