Originally posted by narutoisthebest
The only reason Sasuke won at the valley of the end was b/c the writers wanted it that way.
That applies to everything that happens in the manga period. Kishimoto decided Sasuke's determination and cursed seal made him stronger at that point in time.
Both could've killed the other in a mutual death if they hadn't held back at the very end, but doing what they did, almost mirror attacks, Naruto was out and Sasuke was not.
SO in the long run we cant really rely on the fight with the eight tails and sasuke. Why?
1. sasuke didnt really want to kill him just maybe injure, so he could capture him. So intentions was to never go all out!
2. Hachabi wanted to lose in the first place but didnt want to make it seem like it was a kick to forhead and he was down.
because of this we cant really compare eventhough sasuke got his ass kicked!
Also for the deidara case! Okay yes if sasuke wanted to just kill in the first place he wouldve raped his ass But sasuke wanted to prove something. In the end sasuke and deidara were out of chakra and ended kinda in a tie. diedara last move was blow him self up and sasuke was summoning!
Yes, yes, thats all very well and true but we're not talking about the fight at the Valley of the End. This is the fight of all fights, Naruto vs Sasuke, in Shippuden! This is my opinion and I will back it up with my life, Naruto would definetly win this fight. Why? Because Naruto has way more determination and endurance than Sasuke will ever have. Narutos goals and intentions are pure whereas Sasukes are only for his benefit not for the benefit of others. Naruto would risk his life for his friends and for the world. Thats what makes Naruto a better ninja overall, not to mention his killer ninjutsu that would tear Sasuke to shreds. All Sasuke does is rely on his eyes. Cut those out and hes SCREWED!
And no, Sasuke was going all out on Killer Bee. Killer Bee was just proving too much for Sasuke to handle. I mean, 8 swords! Sasukes sharingan could barely keep up with Hachibi's master swordsmanship. Come on, seriously, Killer Bee mortally wounded Sasuke twice during that fight. If it wasn't for Karin Sasuke would be cold dead. PCE!
Originally posted by narutoisthebest
Narutos strategy making is on par with Shikamarus so, once again, I have no doubt Naruto would get around Susanoo.
Completely false statement right there. Shikamaru is far better than Naruto at strategy. Naruto is just...wild. In a trickster kind of way.
He'll probably hit susano'o with a big attack and break it. Tends to be how things work.
Also, Sasuke beat Deidera fair and square people. >_>
Theres nothing really wrong with Naruto's strategies so far. His strategies have worked very well for him so far every time hes faced an opponent. Yeah Sasuke beat Deidara fair and square and no Sasuke wasnt messing with Deidara either. Earlier I read something someone posted on here saying that Sasuke was just toying with Deidara and he could have finished the fight whenever he wanted to. Wheres your proof of that? Seems to me Deidara was acting as a tough opponent to Sasuke and if Sasuke could have just finished him in a split sec. why did he need to go into curse mode? hmmm
Originally posted by zslick
SO in the long run we cant really rely on the fight with the eight tails and sasuke. Why?
1. sasuke didnt really want to kill him just maybe injure, so he could capture him. So intentions was to never go all out!
2. Hachabi wanted to lose in the first place but didnt want to make it seem like it was a kick to forhead and he was down.
because of this we cant really compare eventhough sasuke got his ass kicked!Also for the deidara case! Okay yes if sasuke wanted to just kill in the first place he wouldve raped his ass But sasuke wanted to prove something. In the end sasuke and deidara were out of chakra and ended kinda in a tie. diedara last move was blow him self up and sasuke was summoning!
Yeah, the fight between Kirabi and Sasuke isn't a completely reliable indicator, other than to establish the fact that Kirabi was one of the strongest ninja around.
For one, Sasuke was still recuperating from his fight with Itachi, and the only MS tech he had was Tsukiyomi, which did not do much in the long run.
For another, Kirabi was pretty much just screwing around in the intial stages, and he was fighting against three ninja. Though once he got excited, he fully released the Eight Tails, which quickly got pwned by Amaterasu.
In any case, the fight proves that Kirabi is one strong mofo, and that Sasuke can pwn Tailed Beasts. awesome
Sasuke was not out of chakra in his fight against Deidara. He could never have summoned Manda (who is one of the largest summons in the manga) had he been out of chakra.
Deidara only thought Sasuke was out of chakra, and Deidara does not have a Doujutsu. Ergo, Deidara was simply wrong.
Originally posted by narutoisthebest
And no, Sasuke was going all out on Killer Bee. Killer Bee was just proving too much for Sasuke to handle. I mean, 8 swords! Sasukes sharingan could barely keep up with Hachibi's master swordsmanship. Come on, seriously, Killer Bee mortally wounded Sasuke twice during that fight. If it wasn't for Karin Sasuke would be cold dead. PCE!
Indeed he was far too much for Sasuke to handle alone. Though on the flip-side, Kirabi would be too much for Naruto as well.
Base Naruto would get pwned so quickly and so easily by Kirabi, it would be lulzy. Sage Mode Naruto evens the playing field, but if Deva can take shots from SM Naruto, Kirabi likely can as well.
Also no, Kirabi only mortally wounded Sasuke once. The first time he hurt Sasuke, Kirabi noticed the fact that it wasn't a fatal wound, thanks to Sasuke running a Raiton through his body. Of course, Sasuke was still heavily wounded by the sword stabs, but he wasn't mortally/fatally wounded like you and others think. kruemelmonsteryn0
Originally posted by narutoisthebest
I have no doubt Naruto would find a way around Susanoo. He beat Pain and everyone said he was unbeatable. Narutos strategy making is on par with Shikamarus so, once again, I have no doubt Naruto would get around Susanoo.
Naruto's 'strategy making' is on par with Shikamaru's? Are you high?
Naruto has never used a strategy the way Shikamaru does. No one has. Naruto uses tactics instead.
Naruto's tactical skills are among the best, but then again, so are Sasuke's. So even if Naruto finds a way around Susano'o, Sasuke will likely be able to find a counter. Danzo using his Baku to slow down Susano'o is a shining example.
Of course, this is assuming Naruto isn't destroying it with a tech, which thanks to PIS, could happen.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
HmmmCalling The Valley of the End a tie aside(it wasn't), let's look.
Shippuden Naruto < Shippuden Sasuke.
Sage Naruto < MS Sasuke (Arguable)Current Naruto is stronger than MS Sasuke but we haven't seen him do anything with his new EMS. So, have to wait for a Sasuke arc.
Dude, it isn't arguable. Naruto himself admitted he couldn't beat a near-blind Sasuke. super13
You think Sage Mode will cover the gap between a near-blind Sasuke and MS Sasuke?
Originally posted by psycho gundam
bee killed sasuke like 12 times (give or take), and faked his loss to troll sasuke's fandom.
And then Kirabi got repeatedly pwned by Kisame, who faked his loss to troll Kirabi's & Raikage's fandom.
Originally posted by narutoisthebestSasuke was weakened in that fight before it happened, and no Sasuke wasn't serious in that fight until after he got stabbed.
And no, Sasuke was going all out on Killer Bee. Killer Bee was just proving too much for Sasuke to handle. I mean, 8 swords! Sasukes sharingan could barely keep up with Hachibi's master swordsmanship. Come on, seriously, Killer Bee mortally wounded Sasuke twice during that fight. If it wasn't for Karin Sasuke would be cold dead. PCE!
To Demonic Pheonix: I admit maybe I made a mistake saying Naruto's strategy making was as good as Shikamarus, but you have to admit, it is pretty good. Naruto has faced many people who were supposedly "super strong", but in the end, thanks to his planning he came out on top. And even if Sasuke was weakened in the fight with Hachibi, he still had Jugo and Suigetsu backing him up and Hachibi still pwned them all. And while Hachibi did get pwned by Kisame it was only because of Samehada stealing away all of Hachibi's chakra. But Kisame did get whupped by Guy so yeah haha..
Originally posted by narutoisthebest
To Demonic Pheonix: I admit maybe I made a mistake saying Naruto's strategy making was as good as Shikamarus, but you have to admit, it is pretty good. Naruto has faced many people who were supposedly "super strong", but in the end, thanks to his planning he came out on top. And even if Sasuke was weakened in the fight with Hachibi, he still had Jugo and Suigetsu backing him up and Hachibi still pwned them all. And while Hachibi did get pwned by Kisame it was only because of Samehada stealing away all of Hachibi's chakra. But Kisame did get whupped by Guy so yeah haha..
Naruto doesn't plan out a grand scheme for a battle beforehand, so he doesn't employ strategy, and neither is he good at it. facepalm2 But meh, I'm just nitpicking, and it is besides the point.
The point is that yes, Naruto is good at coming up with tactics in the middle of a battle, and he mainly employs deception. However, Sasuke is also good at coming up with tactics in battle. I can't remember how the small skirmish with Kakuzu went down, but based on his battle with Naruto and Jiraiya, Pain wasn't a tactical genius like Sasuke.
Yes, Kirabi pwned them all, but he would have pwned Naruto as well. Naruto's only chance is to go Sage Mode in a battle against Kirabi, or use his new Kyuubi chakra form.
Kisame got whupped by a Gai that had opened 7 Gates. In that form, Gai could whup nearly anyone.
Even then, Kisame only got whupped because Gai used a massive-scale attack that wasn't composed of chakra.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Dude, it isn't arguable. Naruto himself admitted he couldn't beat a near-blind Sasuke. super13
You think Sage Mode will cover the gap between a near-blind Sasuke and MS Sasuke?
That's just Naruto being emo.
I think Sasuke takes him with one genjutsu. But I don't feel like fighting over it. Sage Mode Naruto has a lot of fans.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That's just Naruto being emo.I think Sasuke takes him with one genjutsu. But I don't feel like fighting over it. Sage Mode Naruto has a lot of fans.
His words > yours. uhuh
Even though in base form, Naruto's genjutsu resistance is shitty at best, in Sage Mode, his resistance is likely much better. Plus if the Elders are with him, he's got a way to get out of genjutsu.
Of course, if Tsukiyomi is that one genjutsu...there's always Itachi's crow. awesome
Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you not counting the sage-clones he used in his fight with Pein?
Does that actually fall under strategy? If it somehow does, it still isn't much of a noteworthy one. It's simply Naruto coming up with a way to overcome his particular weakness in Sage Mode, and it could be used for any battle. Not to mention, he got the idea from his previous experience with Kakashi, and Fukusaku was the one who sparked the idea.
It's somewhat comparable to Sasuke recruiting a team to deal with any intruders while he fights Itachi.