Originally posted by Allankles
Characters can survive brain damage, Supes himself has survived seemingly massive brain damage on two occasions that I know and kept fighting, but getting your brain's connection to your body severed would effectively isolate the vital organ from your body and any HF benefits.Of course for Supes lethal lobotomy with HV is the only way he could effectively do this to Hulk, which again has nothing to do with punching.
The maestro was completely disintegrated and he still came back.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
The maestro was completely disintegrated and he still came back.
Is he the Hulk we're discussing? Without a connection to his heart his brain will have no way of being functional to his body. Severing his connection to his body means that his body has no brain, and therefore Hulk cannot function and his life dissipates, his spirit leaving his body for good.
I don't really think some writers understand the limits of healing factors. Unless you're a skyfather and above with power over your own life force there's no resurrecting from that kind of damage.
The disintegration of your brain and heart means that you lose the engines that keep you tied to the physical plane. If they are simply damaged that's doable, disintegrated or severed? Unless you have mystical power over life itself you're gone to the afterlife: dead.
There's no purely physical force that'll keep you alive, not unless you're some kind of liquidator who has no use for organs in the first place or some kind of mystical undead being.
EDIT: Essentially if you're a reconstituting yourself from a bunch of cells, you've stepped out of the realm of "healing" factors and into the realm of out-of-body matter manipulation i.e. if you aren't some mystical entity.
Unless the Hulk has some kind of means to matter manip his body back when he's no longer a physical being (he's not some simple single cell organism people), then that's just some dodgy writing (no offense).
Otherwise his vital organs wouldn't be vital and he wouldn't even need a healing factor, because he can apparently do without his organs anyway.
Originally posted by Allankles
Is he the Hulk we're discussing? Without a connection to his heart his brain will have no way of being functional to his body. Severing his connection to his body means that his body has no brain, and therefore Hulk cannot function and his life dissipates, his spirit leaving his body for good.I don't really think some writers understand the limits of healing factors. Unless you're a skyfather and above with power over your own life force there's no resurrecting from that kind of damage.
The disintegration of your brain and heart means that you lose the engines that keep you tied to the physical plane. If they are simply damaged that's doable, disintegrated or severed? Unless you have mystical power over life itself you're gone to the afterlife: dead.
There's no purely physical force that'll keep you alive, not unless you're some kind of liquidator who has no use for organs in the first place or some kind of mystical undead being.
Actually, the maestro did say that he and hulk were exactly the same in the sense that they wud always come back. So its not something that applies only to the maestro but all hulks. Maestro was completely atomized and still came back. Also as for the heart thing, Hulk has healed back, his heart lungs, kidneys( all his internal organs) when they were completely gone in just a few minutes. So those healing factor "limits" as u put it just dont apply.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Actually, the maestro did say that he and hulk were exactly the same in the sense that they wud always come back. So its not something that applies only to the maestro but all hulks. Maestro was completely atomized and still came back. Also as for the heart thing, Hulk has healed back, his heart lungs, kidneys( all his internal organs) when they were completely gone in just a few minutes. So those healing factor "limits" as u put it just dont apply.
Then they're not really "healing" factors we're talking about are they? Because reconstituting yourself after atomization is not really healing is it? Which begs the question, why does Hulk need organs in the first place?
If he needs his organs to be functional, he can be killed. It's a basic dependence principal. His organs indicate he doesn't function as a single cell organism or some anomaly of life (since he needs the standard organs of life to function) and if you can make his vitals organs cease to function for his body you can kill him.
A writer who knows the difference between a healing factor and out-of-body matter manipulation would know this.
Hulk is no Doomsday who doesn't have internal organs, he isn't that kind of an anomaly. He has organs which work to maintain his life.
Originally posted by Allankles
Then they're not really "healing" factors we're talking about are they? Because reconstituting yourself after atomization is not really healing is it? Which begs the question, why does Hulk need organs in the first place?If he needs his organs to be functional, he can be killed. It's a basic dependence principal. His organs indicate he doesn't function as a single cell organism and if you can make his vitals organs cease to function for his body you can kill him.
A writer who knows the difference between a healing factor and out-of-body matter manipulation would know this.
Well maybe that how is should be but it certainly not like that with hulk. Hulk has healed back all his organs(heart,lungs, intestines everything was completely gone) in just a few minutes. Maestro from atomization. So even if u can make his vital organs cease to function, he will regenerate. Whether this is an actual Hf or out of body manipulation as u called it i dont know as it seems neither do the writers.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Well maybe that how is should be but it certainly not like that with hulk. Hulk has healed back all his organs(heart,lungs, intestines everything was completely gone) in just a few minutes. Maestro from atomization. So even if u can make his vital organs cease to function, he will regenerate. Whether this is an actual Hf or out of body manipulation as u called it i dont know as it seems neither do the writers.
Ok. I was just trying to apply some logic to all this "his HF makes him functionally immortal" talk. Because if Hulk is a living being with organs that work to maintain his life, then disrupting or destroying the functionality of his organs would kill him. But as I pointed out the writers have no clue of the significance or limitations of healing factors. But unless someone with a bit more of a clue addresses that and corrects it in Marvel canon then I guess we just have to respect what's there however clueless.
Originally posted by Allankles
Ok. I was just trying to apply some logic to all this "his HF makes him functionally immortal" talk. Because if Hulk is a living being with organs that work to maintain his life, then disrupting or destroying the functionality of his organs would kill him. But as I pointed out the writers have no clue of the significance or limitations of healing factors. But unless someone with a bit more of a clue addresses that and corrects it in Marvel canon then I guess we just have to respect what's there however clueless.
You try to apply logic to a guy wenn he get's angry turns green and add's muscle mass from a other dimention???
Or where ever he get's the extra weight and height.
Heck try to apply logic in comics won't work in like 90% of the time heck maybe even more.
Originally posted by Allankles
Then they're not really "healing" factors we're talking about are they? Because reconstituting yourself after atomization is not really healing is it? Which begs the question, why does Hulk need organs in the first place?
Originally posted by Allankles
I don't really think some writers understand the limits of healing factors. Unless you're a skyfather and above with power over your own life force there's no resurrecting from that kind of damage.EDIT: Essentially if you're a reconstituting yourself from a bunch of cells, you've stepped out of the realm of "healing" factors and into the realm of out-of-body matter manipulation i.e. if you aren't some mystical entity.
Unless the Hulk has some kind of means to matter manip his body back when he's no longer a physical being (he's not some simple single cell organism people), then that's just some dodgy writing (no offense).
I pretty much agree with you on writers not understanding what a HF is and how its supposed to work. I always shake my head when I see someone healing from being nothing but bones and such. Though with Hulk we know their is more to him, we've seen him do things someone just physically strong shouldn't be able to do (seeing abstracts, grabbing energy, etc). but I'm interested in hearing more on your thoughts on the above.
Originally posted by TheBadguy
I pretty much agree with you on writers not understanding what a HF is and how its supposed to work. I always shake my head when I see someone healing from being nothing but bones and such. Though with Hulk we know their is more to him, we've seen him do things someone just physically strong shouldn't be able to do (seeing abstracts, grabbing energy, etc). but I'm interested in hearing more on your thoughts on the above.
The gist of what I'm saying is that we see Hulk as a living being with organs and such to maintain life. If he weren't a living being, he'd be undead or at least a life entity (like a liquidator) who didn't need organs or a mystical type being (a god/skyfather/abstract/whatever) who controls his own life force.
So if he does need his organs (he's not a simple organism like an amoeba), then destroying his vitals completely or severing their connection to his body would kill him (if he is a living organism that relies on mammalian organs).
So when he gets atomized, what process is allowing him to reconstitute himself? After all his brain is gone, his heart is gone and these factor as computers and engines for his healing factor, he doesn't function as simple single cell organism, he is a mammal so how is he reconstituting himself? Healing factor is no longer a factor as his mammalian functionalities have been destroyed.
He's no liquidator or whatever. He's no Vandal Savage either who's immortality is mystical in nature.