Selfless

Originally posted by lord xyz
How many times do I have to tell you?

WE HAVE MACHINES THAT CAN DO THAT. Yes, right now, we have machines that farm the crops that frees humans from doing that kind of stuff. Listen!!! WE HAVE MACHINES TO DO THAT. But society doesn't want us to know that. Society would rather we work for money we don't even need.

Sounds conspiracy theory-ish. Have you proof that we have machines that can do that? And who builts and maintains the machines (if they even exist).

Originally posted by lord xyz
Yes, because it was relevant at that time; a time of scarcity. Now we have a self sustaining world, or we will in the not too distant future.

Again, it would be interesting to see some evidence of that ability. Are you saying we have the technology now to have every person in the world lay down their job and live equally or better than we do now?

Originally posted by lord xyz
No it isn't.

That's what I've been saying this whole time. 😐

I know I have been saying that. I "disagreed".

Originally posted by lord xyz
[list]
[*]No recessions
[*]No debt
[*]No slavery
[*]No unwanted jobs
[*]No scam artists
[*]No/less paranoia
[*]More open society
[*]No scandals
[*]A greater realisation of society
[*]No wasting time on bills and advertising
[*]Freedom to do what you want
[/list]Just off the top of my head.

Why would there be no slavery? There would be ups and downs in the economy anyways (well mostly downs), money is not the cause of recession. There would be scam artists. Why would there be a more open society?

And most of that stuff is utopic at best. Yes, your magical wonderland you imagined works better than the free market system that actually exists, but that's because it takes no real life factors into account. If it was really to be implemented in the near future it would only end in ruins though.

Originally posted by lord xyz
If he wanted money, why didn't he just steal it or go into advertising?

Because there are laws against the first, and he thought he could make more than with the second. Though, really, most of his money is based on advertising.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Money doesn't create incentive, it creates corruption. Steve Jobs had making people happy in mind, that's how Pixar came to be. Either that or it was someone elses idea and he had a corrupt mind.

No, money doesn't create either of that. Money is just a value we assign to every type of work. That's it. It doesn't create corruption, that exists in a moneyless system and yes, it doesn't create incentives...that also exists in a moneyless system. What is does is give us one united idea of what we want to achieve and what we'll have to do to get it.

I am not saying that everyone lusts for money solely, but money makes a lot of things a lot easier...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sounds conspiracy theory-ish. Have you proof that we have machines that can do that? And who builts and maintains the machines (if they even exist).

Originally posted by Bardock42
Again, it would be interesting to see some evidence of that ability. Are you saying we have the technology now to have every person in the world lay down their job and live equally or better than we do now?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I know I have been saying that. I "disagreed".

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why would there be no slavery? There would be ups and downs in the economy anyways (well mostly downs), money is not the cause of recession. There would be scam artists. Why would there be a more open society?

It's great how you never acknowledge you're wrong. Like now, you haven't acknowledged that recession, debt, scandals, paranoia, bills, advertising and unwanted jobs were problems in the monetary system that the venus project overcomes. You're just asking questions til you see a flaw in my argument.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And most of that stuff is utopic at best. Yes, your magical wonderland you imagined works better than the free market system that actually exists, but that's because it takes no real life factors into account. If it was really to be implemented in the near future it would only end in ruins though.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Because there are laws against the first, and he thought he could make more than with the second. Though, really, most of his money is based on advertising.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, money doesn't create either of that. Money is just a value we assign to every type of work. That's it. It doesn't create corruption, that exists in a moneyless system and yes, it doesn't create incentives...that also exists in a moneyless system. What is does is give us one united idea of what we want to achieve and what we'll have to do to get it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I am not saying that everyone lusts for money solely, but money makes a lot of things a lot easier...

Well, lets just agree to disagree and not get banned, shall we? 😛

[edit]And I really didn't call you "retarded" at all.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, lets just agree to disagree and not get banned, shall we? 😛

[edit]And I really didn't call you "retarded" at all.

haermm

Originally posted by Bardock42
But with humans that we have now (and had for the last 50 000 years) you will not succeed in a moneyless, non-trade based, "altruistic" society, unless you establish a dictatorship. And even then it goes against the wants of people so much that it will be sabotaged and never function as well as a free society (on average).

Not that I've eve given this thought or anything but, why would someone who establishes a dictatorship want a "free" society?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not that I've eve given this thought or anything but, why would someone who establishes a dictatorship want a "free" society?

That's not what I said.

What Marius was saying was people wouldn't accept my society and it would only work if it was a dictatorship.

In other words, no money = communism = russia.

Originally posted by lord xyz
What Marius was saying was people wouldn't accept my society and it would only work if it was a dictatorship.

In other words, no money = communism = russia.

Well, something like that. I was more saying that without some major phlebotinum (in your case, "robots will do it"😉, the work that is necessary atm will not be done effectively decreasing the living standards. Dictatorship might be a way of forcing people to do what is necessary for a while, but even then it doesn't work as well as the incentive that a free market gives.

[edit]And I'd appreciate if you'd call me Bardock, not everyone needs to know my name, that's why I chose the username Bardock42, rather than Marius42, so I'd prefer to be called Bardock if that's alright with you, thanks.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, something like that. I was more saying that without some major phlebotinum (in your case, "robots will do it"😉, the work that is necessary atm will not be done effectively decreasing the living standards. Dictatorship might be a way of forcing people to do what is necessary for a while, but even then it doesn't work as well as the incentive that a free market gives.

[edit]And I'd appreciate if you'd call me Bardock, not everyone needs to know my name, that's why I chose the username Bardock42, rather than Marius42, so I'd prefer to be called Bardock if that's alright with you, thanks.

Originally posted by lord xyz
How about Bird cock?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sure, I'd just prefer if you didn't call me by my name on here.

So...now we know your name...is there a sort of Rumpelstiltskin-esque surprise now we know?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
So...now we know your name...is there a sort of Rumpelstiltskin-esque surprise now we know?

no doubt bardock we are online here not saying hi when we walk out and get our newspapers...you will always be bardock unless you change your username..lol..

He did that once...LOL Sooooooooooo creative was his old name....HAHAHAHA

jus noticed that..lol