vader and sidous questions

I was having a discussion and a couple of questions came up.

Did Sidous think that suit vader could have regained his old strength "if he could only let go of his past." He said it was on wiki

What did sidious think of vader? According to wiki vader tried to kill sidous when he first learned that padme died, how did he do this?
What did sidous do?

How strong was vader before his duel with obiwan? He was 80% of sidous when he was in the suite.

Did sidious actually train vader? how much knowledge of the darkside did he have?
Where did he learn the force choke? I thought that was a move taught by siths only?

How come Vader did not continue to get sgtronger with the force? Did he not train after obiwan beat him?

Did Sidous think that suit vader could have regained his old strength "if he could only let go of his past." He said it was on wiki

Yes.

Palpatine muses in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, a month after the events of Revenge of the Sith, that "Sith power resided not in the flesh, but the will." He believed that if Vader let go of the psychological trauma of losing his wife and most of his body, the majority of his power would return to him. But Vader never makes any great improvement in this regard, prompting Palpatine to subsequently want to replace him.

What did sidious think of vader?

The same thing he thinks about everyone else: he considers him to be a pawn.

According to wiki vader tried to kill sidous when he first learned that padme died, how did he do this?

You saw it in Revenge of the Sith. The novelization explains that Vader's goal was to "crush the shadow who had destroyed him." (Sidious) But his power was so impaired that his rage could only destroy the instruments and 'droids nearby. He couldn't touch the Emperor.

What did sidous do?

He stood back and smiled.

How strong was vader before his duel with obiwan? He was 80% of sidous when he was in the suite.

No quantification is ever given. His speed, agility, and connection to the Force were all greater, but suited-Vader's mastery is much superior.

Did sidious actually train vader? how much knowledge of the darkside did he have?

Given Vader's ambitions, Sidious regarded him only as an enforcer and pawn. Not to mention that Vader, unlike Sidious, was never much of a scholar. He didn't seem to recognize that knowledge increases power and so, he didn't master the Force to an amazing extent.

Where did he learn the force choke? I thought that was a move taught by siths only?

It's aggressive and Sithian in nature. Jedi avoid using it because it requires anger and hatred; not that they're incapable.

And, being extremely angry and hateful at the time, he likely instinctually grasped the technique. No pun intended.

How come Vader did not continue to get sgtronger with the force? Did he not train after obiwan beat him?

He did get stronger.

Originally posted by Gideon

The same thing he thinks about everyone else: he considers him to be a pawn.

I always figured he considered Dooku, Maul, the CIS, as pawns.
With vader, his quote to Yoda "Lord Vader will become stronger than either of us!" makes me think that he truly did consider Vader his replacement, and someone he planned on sharing the majority of his knowledge with until his defeat by kenobi.

The time he invested in Vader's life up until that point is another reason i belive that.

he considered him a disappointment after his injuries, to be sure, and ever after searched for a replacement (didn't he consider Xizor? or was that just in Xizor's own mind?)
But before the injuries, do you think he was truly just another pawn in Sidious's game?

I think that was Xizor's own opinion. I doubt very much that Palpatine would have wanted to replace Vader with a non-Force-sensitive, no matter his position.

^^^
agreed.

But before the injuries, do you think he was truly just another pawn in Sidious's game?

Absolutely. He tells Vader flat out in Dark Lord that if Count Dooku had been stronger in the dark side that he would have had him kill Anakin and Tyranus would be the Empire's top enforcer.

Are you sure that he wasn't just playing with Vader's mind? Palpatine would have wanted to keep the suit under control, so maybe he was ensuring that Vader remained under his influence. The RotS novel makes it seem as though Anakin himself was the prize (or a prize) that Palpatine was working towards- a lot of effort was spent on Anakin's fall.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Are you sure that he wasn't just playing with Vader's mind?

That's exactly what he was doing. You don't need to lie to someone to toy with them.

Palpatine would have wanted to keep the suit under control, so maybe he was ensuring that Vader remained under his influence.

How many of your servants remain under your influence after you've told them that they are essentially expendable? Sidious is a master of psychology; it doesn't take a brainiac, though, to be aware of the fact that belittling someone with an overactive ego and capricious temper like Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader isn't an effective means to keep him under control.

The RotS novel makes it seem as though Anakin himself was the prize (or a prize) that Palpatine was working towards- a lot of effort was spent on Anakin's fall.

Prior to his discovery of a method by which to cheat death, one of Palpatine's priorities was to perpetuate the Sith legacy. And so he corrupted Anakin Skywalker. Did he expend great time and patience to convert him? Yes. He was essentially a big, dumb, naive hammer. Not quite as bright or as seasoned as the Count, but just as impressionable and arrogant, and with superior potential.

But the man makes it quite clear throughout the saga that all he's after is the stronger apprentice. Maul? Cast aside. Dooku? Cast aside. Vader? Hell, he tries to cast him aside all the damn time.

Did sidious know vader was the chosen one?

If he was as well connected as he is made out to be, then it's doubtless he'd miss something like that.

then believe the prophecy, sidious did not. (just started typing and it came out in Yodese... i think i need to go away from this forum and not come back for at least a month... but i won't)

Or perhaps Sidious thought himself powerful enough to counter the prophecy.