Vader, cool or crap?

Originally posted by Allankles
No, haven't read it.

But Pfft! People don't seem to get it. Vader was very powerful but also quite vulnerable because of his dependence on cybernetics. Ironically the injuries forced him to become even tougher mentally and made him have to be even more courageous. IMO he had a tremendously strong will stronger even than Sidious'.

I wouldn't go that far. Vader was a servant to Sidious's will. Though this does not deminish Vader's character as far as coolness. He was, however, the face of the empire, and the main one who brought fear to the galaxy.

Vader, along with Dooku and Tarkin, are probably some of the most realistic characters in SW history. Vader was a person who paid the price for his greed, and lost everything he once cherished. Dooku was a character who lost faith in something he served, and his own galaxy, so he chose a darker route thinking he would bring order to the galaxy. Tarkin was just one of those crazy war hungry maniacs, who want to go down in history as a "war hero", and we see these types of people everyday in our own world.

Sidious on the other hand is a villain "far from earth". You can't quite describe Sidious's evilness. He is someone you can call a pure evil character, whose only motive is his lust for power and control. GL intended Sidious's character to be a total mystery, and an undescribable evil character IMO. That is why he cancelled his back story from being published. Vader is a product of Sidious's evil workings.

I don't believe that Vader is so much a 'paid the price for his greed' as a far more honest, and less simplistic explanation of a descent to evil. That is- his fall to the dark side occured because of seemingly noble motives, like the bringing of a more secure and just order to the galaxy- which he came to believe could only be achieved with the destruction of the Jedi, who he had come to believe were an evil group.

That being said, though, the above explanation is possibly a mere excuse designed to help Vader live with himself. The more truthful explanation is thus- he failed because of a selfish desire to maintain the life of his wife (ironically, he fulfilled his own visions or her death). That's the tragedy of Vader- a promising Jedi who fell not because of a desire for power (although that might have been a factor), but because of love. His fall is what makes him a great character, indeed.

When you kill younglings to save your wife from a death you do not even know will happen, it is greedy and selfish. It all stemed from love, but it eventually turned into greed. Yoda warned Anakin about this.

Vader did not kill countless of jedi because he thought they were evil. In fact, according to GL, Anakin knew that his own actions were wrong.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
When you kill younglings to save your wife from a death you do not even know will happen, it is greedy and selfish. It all stemed from love, but it eventually turned into greed. Yoda warned Anakin about this.

Vader did not kill countless of jedi because he thought they were evil. In fact, according to GL, Anakin knew that his own actions were wrong.

Originally posted by Lucien A
Exactly. Love, and the desire to maintain it, sent Anakin careening into Darkness. And yeah, he knew they were wrong (we all saw that tear in RotS). But he doubtless masked his guilt with a sense of "for the greater good," i.e. good of the galaxy without war.

seems to be the goal of all the sith: however, as long as they keep writing star wars books, it seems as though every sith will fail spectacularly. In fact, they don't even come close. The entire galaxy seems to have one galaxy-wide war after another.

Hey, that's life for you. But remember, Star Wars does have it's epochs of peace.

not since the clone wars really i mean there was 19 years between rots and anh but ever since then its been one galaxy wide war after another with like i dunno like 3 years of peace in between.

the only other time the galaxy went from galaxy wide war to galaxy wide war was from exar kuns to the mandalorian wars to the jedi civil war to the first jedi purge but then there was like what a couple hundred years of piece well at least it was until the old republic mmo comes out actually I guess ya the SW galaxy always is in a giant war but then again what else should you expect when the story is called star WARS.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
not since the clone wars really i mean there was 19 years between rots and anh but ever since then its been one galaxy wide war after another with like i dunno like 3 years of peace in between.

the only other time the galaxy went from galaxy wide war to galaxy wide war was from exar kuns to the mandalorian wars to the jedi civil war to the first jedi purge but then there was like what a couple hundred years of piece well at least it was until the old republic mmo comes out actually I guess ya the SW galaxy always is in a giant war but then again what else should you expect when the story is called star WARS.

Wasn't there about 1000 years of galactic peace prior to the clone wars. I know of the stark(sp) war,the battle against the mandalorians that Dooku and Fett fought in and the trade federation on Naboo but they were wars/battle on galactic a scale.

I'm pretty sure that there was never absolute peace. Sure, some times may be calmer than others, but I doubt there was a complete, peaceful existence in the galaxy at some point.

There can't be with so many beings.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Wasn't there about 1000 years of galactic peace prior to the clone wars. I know of the stark(sp) war,the battle against the mandalorians that Dooku and Fett fought in and the trade federation on Naboo but they were wars/battle on galactic a scale.

Dooku and Fett fought against eachother? Is there a book on this? Or did they fight alongside eachother, or just happened to fight in the same war?

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Dooku and Fett fought against eachother? Is there a book on this? Or did they fight alongside eachother, or just happened to fight in the same war?

It was first mentioned in a Jango Fett comic, Dooku and Fett were on opposite sides, this battle is supposedly (I believe) how Dooku learned of Fett's existence and this is battle also played a role in Dooku's decision to leave the order.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Galidraan

Awesome, thanks for the info!

he was. until the EU started ruining what little was left of his reputation. he gets owned by a freaking tuskin raider for goodness sakes.

darth vader's cool, but he thinks he so kool also

When I was little I was scared to look when Luke took off his helmet ...

darth vader's cool, but he thinks he so kool also

Right ...

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
When I was little I was scared to look when Luke took off his helmet ...

I actually closed my eyes every time, and then the third time I watched the movie I looked and saw it was just a burned old man (well, apparently not that old).

you know Im tired of everyone saying vader is evil,HE IS NOT. period.I like him i think he would of made the perfect leader for both jedi and sith.

And yes there are sith more powerfull then he,but hell,he levitated in darth maul series,that takes quit a bit of power. and at only ten.

In some way i can majorly relate to him,but other then that,all he wanted was love,maybe it wasnt that simple,as one needs to look at a certain pov here. But he would be a great warrior.