to Ridley Prime: yeah that's true, but Broly also continually gets stronger anyway as he goes around the place. in movie 8 after pummeling Goku, Gohan, and Trunks he got a power boost. if he gets power boosts like that for 20 years or so, then he can beat SS4 Vegeta. but only on that condition.
but wait, where would they fight if Broly were to live that long, destroying planets?
Originally posted by danteiscool
to Ridley Prime: yeah that's true, but Broly also continually gets stronger anyway as he goes around the place. in movie 8 after pummeling Goku, Gohan, and Trunks he got a power boost. if he gets power boosts like that for 20 years or so, then he can beat SS4 Vegeta. but only on that condition.but wait, where would they fight if Broly were to live that long, destroying planets?
With that knowledge as well vegeta continues to get stronger through all his other fights & then the ssj4 boost which is way over legendary super saiyan.
vegeta has always been weaker than goku very slightly, so lets forget about him because if goku can't beat him than vegeta can't, simple as that.
so my reply is based on ss4 goku vs legendary super saiyan broly which is equal to ss4 vegeta vs broly, only better since ss4 vegeta is slightly weaker than ss4 goku.
I like Vegeta heaps better than goku but that's just how it is.
Now on to my reply:
Super saiyan 4 goku on a 1on1 battle against Legendary Super Saiyan Broly would have a chance to beat him, but not without copping a shit-load of damage and if he did it quickly due to Broly's ever increasing power. however due to the circumstances, after a few moments of battle, ss4 goku would not stand a chance.
why i say this and my evidence:
The broly event happened after the android saga.
Gohan never did turn super saiyan 2 in the battle against broly (supposedly because even after the battle with cell, it was still hard for Gohan to turn super saiyan 2 again because he still couldn't control it and had to get "really pissed 10x" but didn't get the chance because he got knocked out pretty early in the battle with Broly and didn't really rejoin).
more evidence to back this up: Because Gohan hadn't turned super saiyan yet at the beginning of the cell saga since he actually attained it by training for approx. 2 years in the hyperbolic time chamber to face semi-perfect cell afterwards;
AND coincidently he was able to turn super saiyan straight away in the Broly event.
so through this, piccolo at this time would be a super namekian through kami fusion, pretty much equal to super saiyan 1.
now on to the point:
basically in the battle, all 5 fighters, Goku, Vegeta,Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan had received a freakin' belting from Broly.
So Piccolo, gohan, vegeta and trunks had to transfer almost their entire supply of ki and life energy (since they all fainted from exhaustion after the transfer) to Goku. Thats basically the fusion of 5 super saiyans ( counting piccolo's super namekian power as one, since his ki is equal to that of a super saiyan; and since goku already has super saiyan power, obviously makes another, so that's 2 plus Vegeta,trunks and gohan = 5 ) into one person, goku.
in calculation, what goku becomes after the transfer is more powerful than super vegito (super saiyan vegito) from buu saga.
Vegito is the fusion of 2 super saiyans through potara, remember potara gives a boost to the fusion and is stronger than super saiyan 3 and equal to super saiyan 4, so lets be generous and say that through potara fusion and potara boost, thats 3 super saiyans in super vegito (super saiyan vegito) plus power up from potara.
3 super saiyans vs 5 super saiyans; the obvious winner is 5 super saiyans.
on to the point:
okay, so we've got goku in his new state against broly.
If you all notice, goku charges every bit of power he has attained including his own, into ONE punch. So this punch so COINCIDENTLY hits Broly in the ABDOMEN. remember that his abdomen is the most vulnerable part in his body since he was stabbed there as a baby.
From the impact, Broly gets more than critically damaged and is sent falling to the ground, never to be seen again until the next movie which in the beginning shows he is still alive, coming in a saiyan space ship to Earth, then shows that he was near death, bleeding from critical damage and got frozen under the ice on Earth. in other words, he DID NOT DIE from a full energy given punch by goku who in that state was stronger than SUPER VEGITO!!! meaning stronger than SUPER SAIYAN 4!!!
The only reason broly was overwhelmed was because the punch landed on his abdomen, his vulnerable spot since childhood.
Now lets hit the Rewind button and go back to the moment where goku is going to land the punch:
lets create a new scenario and say this awesome punch hit another body part, like for example Broly's chest. The punch lands on his chest, and Broly is sent flying and is dealt quite the damage... But thats it, from a full-energy consumed punch from someone who is stronger than super vegito, meaning stronger than super saiyan 4.
that would have been the most damage dealt to Broly in the entire battle, and it would be the last since goku expended ALL of his energy on that single punch, Goku after that would be defenceless and All hope is lost and everyone would be screwed.
So after all of this evidence, i think its safe to say that Super saiyan 4 goku on a 1on1 battle against Legendary Super Saiyan Broly would have a teeny-tiny chance to beat him but only in the first few moments of the battle since Broly's strength would have increased dramatically due to constant energy increase.
After those few precious moments, Super Saiyan 4 Goku would not stand a chance against Legendary Super Saiyan Broly.
Legendary Super Saiyan Broly RULES!!!!!!! XD!!!
Originally posted by Flayne
From the impact, Broly gets more than critically damaged and is sent falling to the ground, never to be seen again until the next movie which in the beginning shows he is still alive, coming in a saiyan space ship to Earth, then shows that he was near death, bleeding from critical damage and got frozen under the ice on Earth. in other words, he DID NOT DIE from a full energy given punch by goku who in that state was stronger than SUPER VEGITO!!! meaning stronger than SUPER SAIYAN 4!!!
@ Ridley_Prime,
well obviously from your comment, you don't agree.
then correct me if u think i'm wrong, provide me with some kind of evidence that makes my conclusion wrong, don't just post something that simply says u don't agree.
because by posting this kind of comment without any reference to why you think i'm wrong, it obviously marks your ignorance in the topic and therefore nullifies the value of your disagreement.
First post your evidence that Goku was more powerful than Super Vegito when he received the powers from the others.
That is the single point your entire view hinges on, and it is filled to the brim with baseless & ridiculous speculation; namely your idea that the power of Super Vegito is equal to that of three Super Saiyans.
@ Demonic Phoenix,
actually i believe i have provided enough evidence to support that fact, and through this quote from my post "thats 3 super saiyans in super vegito",
"IN"
so this isn't the power of simply three super saiyans because that could mean the power of 3 super saiyans in their seperate individual state, and this is not what i was saying, thats unspecified.
by being generous to vegito, as to saying, this is the power of
3 "MERGED" super saiyans, 3 "IN" 1.
( originally just 2 super saiyans fusing but being generous as to add one more because of the extra power boost potara gives )
the power of 3 Merged super saiyans is not the same thing as the power of 3 super saiyans in their individual state.
3 super saiyans in their individual state would get bloody thrashed in a fight against an individual whom is the result of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.
in conclusion what im saying is that super vegito has the same power as that of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.
so i suggest you should read my statements correctly before posting something that changes my words completely or something that is completely unspecified.
now i await your provided evidence as to why my statement:
"is filled to the brim with baseless & ridiculous speculation"
Originally posted by Flayne
@ Demonic Phoenix,actually i believe i have provided enough evidence to support that fact, and through this quote from my post "thats 3 super saiyans in super vegito",
"IN"
so this isn't the power of simply three super saiyans because that could mean the power of 3 super saiyans in their seperate individual state, and this is not what i was saying, thats unspecified.
by being generous to vegito, as to saying, this is the power of
3 "MERGED" super saiyans, 3 "IN" 1.( originally just 2 super saiyans fusing but being generous as to add one more because of the extra power boost potara gives )
the power of 3 Merged super saiyans is not the same thing as the power of 3 super saiyans in their individual state.
3 super saiyans in their individual state would get bloody thrashed in a fight against an individual whom is the result of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.
in conclusion what im saying is that super vegito has the same power as that of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.
so i suggest you should read my statements correctly before posting something that changes my words completely or something that is completely unspecified.
now i await your provided evidence as to why my statement:
"is filled to the brim with baseless & ridiculous speculation"
Fair enough, my apologies for misreading your words.
I had a chance to properly read your first post. Let us look at what you have termed as 'facts'.
1. Super Vegito is as powerful as 3 Super Saiyans 'merged together'. Your reasoning being that the Potara Fusion gives a 2 Saiyan Potara Fusion the same power boost that another Super Saiyan would give if there were three Super Saiyans merging together.
In other words, three Super Saiyans merged together would have the same power as 2 Super Saiyans merged together via the Potara fusion.
This is baseless speculation.
2. Super Vegito is as powerful as a Super Saiyan 4.
This is baseless speculation.
3. As Goku received the all Ki of his team-mates during the climax of his battle with Broly, you have deemed that this gave him the power of 5 Merged Super Saiyans.
In other words, he was as powerful as a Fusion between 5 Super Saiyans.
This is baseless speculation.
4. Your points imply that the simple act of transferring ki to someone is equivalent to the complex process of successfully fusing with that same person. You outright state "Thats basically the fusion of 5 super saiyans..." when transferring ki to someone is not the same as fusing with that same person.
Thus, your point is not just baseless speculation, but factually incorrect.
If you believe that transferring Ki is the same thing as a Potara Fusion/Fusion Dance, I need you to prove it.
It seems I was incorrect earlier. You believing that transferring Ki is equivalent to a Fusion is what your entire argument hinges on, not Goku being more powerful than Super Vegito.
Seeing as transferring Ki is not the same thing as a Fusion, your argument is obviously flawed.
________
As I've addressed your points in the manner that I normally would, I shall now humour everyone by using your logic against you.
Super Buu had absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, & Gohan. This means that he now had their entire Ki reserves within him.
Super Buu is as powerful as a Super Saiyan 3 as he had no problems beating the merged form of 2 Super Saiyans. I'm in a good mood so I'll be generous to you. I'll say that he was as powerful as a Super Saiyan 2.
Piccolo is as powerful as a Super Saiyan according to you.
Goten and Trunks are both Super Saiyans.
Gohan was in a form more powerful than his Teen Super Saiyan 2 Form, as shown by how he could easily trounce Super Buu, something that Gotenks failed to do until he went into Super Saiyan 3.
Assuming a Super Saiyan 2 is twice as powerful as a Super Saiyan and so on:
When Vegito fought Super Buu, Super Buu was as powerful as EIGHT SUPER SAIYANS MERGED TOGETHER: [Super Buu (2) + Piccolo (1) + Goten (1) + Trunks (1) + Gohan (3) = 8].
8 Super Saiyans is > 3 Super Saiyans, yet Super Vegito (3 Super Saiyans) was somehow far stronger than Super Buu (8 Super Saiyans). Something is wrong here.
Either your logic is incredibly faulty, or 3 Super Saiyans > 8 Super Saiyans, and therefore, 3 Super Saiyans > 5 Super Saiyans. kruemelmonsteryn0
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Fair enough, my apologies for misreading your words.I had a chance to properly read your first post. Let us look at what you have termed as 'facts'.
1. Super Vegito is as powerful as 3 Super Saiyans 'merged together'. Your reasoning being that the Potara Fusion gives a 2 Saiyan Potara Fusion the same power boost that another Super Saiyan would give if there were three Super Saiyans merging together.
In other words, three Super Saiyans merged together would have the same power as 2 Super Saiyans merged together via the Potara fusion.
This is baseless speculation.2. Super Vegito is as powerful as a Super Saiyan 4.
This is baseless speculation.3. As Goku received the all Ki of his team-mates during the climax of his battle with Broly, you have deemed that this gave him the power of 5 Merged Super Saiyans.
In other words, he was as powerful as a Fusion between 5 Super Saiyans.
This is baseless speculation.4. Your points imply that the simple act of transferring ki to someone is equivalent to the complex process of successfully fusing with that same person. You outright state "Thats basically the [b]fusion
of 5 super saiyans..." when transferring ki to someone is not the same as fusing with that same person.
Thus, your point is not just baseless speculation, but factually incorrect.If you believe that transferring Ki is the same thing as a Potara Fusion/Fusion Dance, I need you to prove it.
It seems I was incorrect earlier. You believing that transferring Ki is equivalent to a Fusion is what your entire argument hinges on, not Goku being more powerful than Super Vegito.
Seeing as transferring Ki is not the same thing as a Fusion, your argument is obviously flawed.
________As I've addressed your points in the manner that I normally would, I shall now humour everyone by using your logic against you.
Super Buu had absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, & Gohan. This means that he now had their entire Ki reserves within him.
Super Buu is as powerful as a Super Saiyan 3 as he had no problems beating the merged form of 2 Super Saiyans. I'm in a good mood so I'll be generous to you. I'll say that he was as powerful as a Super Saiyan 2.
Piccolo is as powerful as a Super Saiyan according to you.
Goten and Trunks are both Super Saiyans.
Gohan was in a form more powerful than his Teen Super Saiyan 2 Form, as shown by how he could easily trounce Super Buu, something that Gotenks failed to do until he went into Super Saiyan 3.Assuming a Super Saiyan 2 is twice as powerful as a Super Saiyan and so on:
When Vegito fought Super Buu, Super Buu was as powerful as EIGHT SUPER SAIYANS MERGED TOGETHER: [Super Buu (2) + Piccolo (1) + Goten (1) + Trunks (1) + Gohan (3) = 8].8 Super Saiyans is > 3 Super Saiyans, yet Super Vegito (3 Super Saiyans) was somehow far stronger than Super Buu (8 Super Saiyans). Something is wrong here.
Either your logic is incredibly faulty, or 3 Super Saiyans > 8 Super Saiyans, and therefore, 3 Super Saiyans > 5 Super Saiyans. kruemelmonsteryn0 [/B]
well argued, however there is something you forgot while you were mentioning super buu:
Remember when vegito got absorbed by buu and their fusion wore off? well through this it is assumed that the fusion of gotenks wore off aswell in buu, obviously it´s true because when they rescued them, they were seperate in their own pods inside buu, so the fusion had worn off meaning buu had no longer absorbed the individual gotenks, but had absorbed goten and trunks, not the same as ss3 gotenks.
also, remember that when vegeta and goku found all of them in those pods, none of them were transformed.
what does this mean?... it means that buu has the potential to use the powers they would have while in normal form.
so in other words, your statement: "Super Buu was as powerful as EIGHT SUPER SAIYANS MERGED TOGETHER"
is totally nullified, and can be changed to this: super buu has:
3 saiyans, 1 super namekian (because naturally piccolo became an SN simply with the fusion of kami into him so at most moments he already is SN) so lets change that to one super saiyan and has fat buu who is stronger than super saiyan 2.
so lets summerize that:
super buu has: 3 saiyans, 1 super saiyan, and fat buu (stronger than ss2) merged into him.
quite the team, but not very efficient against vegito who has the power of 3 super saiyans merged in him (potara boost).
This is exactly why ss vegito was able to belt the crap out of this form of super buu.
most people would think super buu would have smashed vegito with all these absorbed victims, but it wasn´t the case.
because all those that were absorbed had returned to their normal states and had not remained in their transformed states, IF it were the case, then your logic could be applied.
so it seems my logic still remains intact and unflawed unless you have something else you want to add to your argument.