Darth Rex is partially right - Galen's midichlorian count would be (possibly) significantly larger, but as Gideon pointed out a high midichlorian count doesn't control Force mastery. Lucien is also correct by the fact that Luke's mastery of the Force in ROTJ did not compare to Galen's when Galen was killed.
When I relate Galen to Kyp's potential, I mean in LOTF. By then Luke, would be stronger than Galen - that's a given. Luke is of the Anakin/Vader bloodlines. Luke was schooled and self-taught mostly in the light. Galen was schooled primarily in the dark, but Rohm Kota despite his connection to the Force severed, became Galen's Master.
If it was Galen facing Vader again in ROTJ with more training in the light, he would easily defeat Vader. Luke had to use the dark side to defeat Vader, but refused to fight Sidious/Palpatine. Question is, would he [Galen] turn on Sidious/Palpatine? Luke didn't cause he was to self-righteous by becoming a Jedi.
Yes, the count might be possibly higher, but the fact that he has two Jedi parents has nothing to do with it. There is probably more than one Jedi who's had two Force-sensitive parents and is no-where near as powerful as Anakin (or Luke, for that matter), who didn't even have a single Force-sensitive parent. That's my point.
Good rebuttal, but Galen had more control and mastery of the Force than Luke in ROTJ. Unfortunately at the time, Galen was dead. Galen did defeat Vader in lightsaber and the Force without using the dark side. Vader trained a weapon of the Force - someone who truly was able to "unleash the Force." Apparently, Galen was able to touch the raw untamed power of the Force at times. Anakin/Vader never did.
Anakin/Vader was stated as having the highest midichlorian count ever recorded, but Obi-Wan, Galen, Dooku and Luke were the only one's able to defeat him. Only Galen and Dooku through the Force. Galen had more Force mastery than Vader.
I disagree with you that Luke was as strong as Galen in ROTJ. If Galen survived, Sidious/Palpatine might I say again might be distracted by the fact that the Force user Vader trained was growing stronger in the ways of the Force daily. He would be more of a threat to him than the Rebellion. His precious Mara would easily be defeated by the sheer power Galen could summon so the Emperor's Hand won't work. Bounty hunters wouldn't be able to capture him and certainly not Vader because by that time Galen had surpassed his mastery of the Force.
Luke however would return from his tutalege from Yoda and would have to face Vader right. Luke had to use the dark side to defeat Vader. Nearly forgot this - Luke didn't have any experience fighting Jedi. Galen did. The power Luke demonstrated in ROTJ pales in comparison to Galen. Luke didn't know FR or how to tap into the raw untamed Force. Galen does.
Sorry - forgot about that one part of your text. When Galen defeated Vader in front of the Emperor, Sidious/Palpatine had to be in a little bit of disbelief. But when Galen rejected the offer to become the Emperor's apprentice and demonstrated his ability to tap into the raw Force, Luke in ROTJ must have been seen as feeble. He wasn't capable of stopping FL like Galen. So the Emperor wasn't as worried as when he had to deal with Galen.
Originally posted by Gideon
[B]Marek's command of the Force is demonstrably much higher and more profound than Anakin's. As the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia states rather explicitly, a high collection of midichlorians isn't enough to secure great power for a Force user; it requires meditation and study in order to master. Vader trained Marek by pushing his limits relentlessly -- the Jedi Order didn't use such barbaric methods.
Then clearly Starkiller is above Yoda since the Jedi don't use such methods.
Not.
Anakin's midichlorian count does count for something and that's just obvious. His reserves of Force power are that much greater and when he loses control, he crushes buildings by accident.
All the focus, meditation and jacking off in the world won't let most Jedi even come close to Anakin in terms of power simply because of his raw potential.
Starfailure isn't that great.
Luminatus
Then clearly Starkiller is above Yoda since the Jedi don't use such methods.
Not.Anakin's midichlorian count does count for something and that's just obvious. His reserves of Force power are that much greater and when he loses control, he crushes buildings by accident.
All the focus, meditation and jacking off in the world won't let most Jedi even come close to Anakin in terms of power simply because of his raw potential.
Starfailure isn't that great.
GideonYour tone is inappropriate considering you're reviving a thread that's been dead for six months to sneer at people who know [considerably] more about the subject at hand than you do.
As the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia states rather explicitly, a high collection of midichlorians isn't enough to secure great power for a Force user; it requires meditation and study in order to master.
You're tone is inappropriate as you're assuming you know anything about me which I'm afraid you do not. Thus your opinion of what I do or do not know is not worth anything.
The quote is simply contradicted by facts. Is Anakin the meditating type? Has he mastered the Force on the level of older Jedi? Nope. Would he still murderrate most of the Council by himself? Yes.
Because raw power is enough. This has been proven time and time agian. As far back as ROTJ when a barely trained Luke defeated and nearly killed Vader who had twice as much experience and training as the farmboy. Why? Because Luke used his raw force potential by tapping into his anger. As GL said, the dark side is the stronger side.
You can train all you want but it won't matter next to raw potential.
Originally posted by Luminatus
You're tone is inappropriate as you're ASSuming you know anything about me which I'm afraid you do not. Thus your opinion of what I do or do not know is not worth anything.
Th quote is also quite wrong. Is Anakin the meditating type? Has he mastered the Force on the level of older Jedi? Nope. Would he still murderrate most of the Council by himself? Yes.
Because raw power is enough. This has been proven time and time agian. As far back as ROTJ when a barely trained Luke defeated and nearly killed Vader who had twice as much experience and training as the farmboy. Why? Because Luke used his raw force potential by tapping into his anger. As GL said, the dark side is the stronger side.
You can train all you want but it won't matter next to raw potential.
Except you'd be 100% wrong. There's too many examples to name.
Enough for what? Whom? I didn't know you were qualified enough to make this claim.
I think I'm fully qualified to say what is blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain. or did Luke win over Vader, did Anakin win over Dooku, did Kun win over Vodo, due to the former three's superior experience and skills at meditation? lol
Except you'd be 100% wrong. There's too many examples to name.
I've named 3 examples. You've named none. So I hope you can pull out some of those examples.
Not like it matters. your claim I'm 100% wrong is in direct contradiction to 3 examples I've already listed. You've already lost.
Originally posted by LuminatusI've disagreed with you before, but these last few posts have killed any respect I had for you.
I think I'm fully qualified to say what is blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain. or did Luke win over Vader, did Anakin win over Dooku, did Kun win over Vodo, due to the former three's superior experience and skills at meditation? lolI've named 3 examples. You've named none. So I hope you can pull out some of those examples.
Not like it matters. your claim I'm 100% wrong is in direct contradiction to 3 examples I've already listed. You've already lost.
Raw power is one factor is a fight. Go read Zahn's trilogy. Thrawn demonstrated quite sufficiently that raw power and brute force CAN be outmaneuveered and defeated by intelligence, tactics, and strategy. Our own history provided enough evidence of that--the Spartans at Thermopylae, Caesar at Alesia, the guerrillas of the American Revolution, the success of the Flying Tigers. In order to win via raw power and brute force, you require a key figure: overwhelming brute force, something which doesn't exist in the match-up.
If you had read further in to the subject, you'd remember that Anakin had not yet reached his potential. He wasn't even on par with Palpatine yet, never mind the 200% Lucas gave us. Having the potential to do or be something is ultimately moot when you don't fulfill it. There's a dissembled doomsday machine in my garage, and only I have the know-how to put it together. But I slipped stepping out of the shower and now the knowledge is lost.
From Wiktionary---potential:
As a noun
1.) Currently unfulfilled capacity to improve, develop, and achieve impressive feats.
2.) Anything that may be possible; a possibility; potentiality.
As an adverb
1.) Existing in possibility, not in actuality.
As Luke said to Katarn in Jedi Outcast concerning the much more numerous and quite dangerous Reborn, "...we've got an advantage due to our training and... discipline."
The insubordinate poster's use of sarcasm disturbs me. He or she may simply be out purely for attention, perhaps thinking that by defying us that he or she will gain the recognition that he or she feels that he or she is entitled to.
I'll bite, just this once, if only to establish that the insubordinate poster is an idiot.
And then, should he or she continue in his or her spree of idiocy, we shall promptly place said user on ignore.
"The Jedi Knights discovered that the Force was accessible to all living beings through the presence of midi-chlorians in their cells. The more midi-chlorians inhabiting a being's cells, the more the being was able to connect to the Force. However, a high concentration of midi-chlorians did not guarantee a being control of the Force. Only through intense study and dedicated training could one become proficient in harnessing the power of the Force."
-- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Volume I (A-G), page 285.
Originally posted by the Insubordinate Poster
His reserves of Force power are that much greater and when he loses control, he crushes buildings by accident.
You're incompetent. No one denied that demonstrations of the Force through raw aggression were impressive; but the particular feat (which was the destruction of the building's roof) was unimpressive compared to Marek's manipulating the descent of a Star Destroyer. And, lest we forget, it [Anakin's feat] proved disasterous for him.
And reserves of Force power are a constant.