um.. Caedus. He has shatterpoint and is Windu's equal in saber combat.. then he has all these force powers like slapping someone in the stomach and zapping them with force lightning.
He took out a jedi party single handedly.
He was a match for LOTF Luke Skywalker.
He is the lord of pain (jk) second to darth sion
and i think Caedus' force lightning is more powerful than dooku's lightning
Anakin was able to catch it on his lightsaber CW (i read the book) and Obi1 also
Jaina couldn't catch Caedus' lightning
He could pretend to use lightning and cause ppl to misanticipate like in inferno where he faked using lightning and threw something else at luke.
like the enemy/jedi would prepare for a lightning blast but something else unexpected happens.
crap. I thought I clicked the edit button on the first post..
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Didn't Luke kick his ass in LOTF "Inferno" after seeing Ben being tortured? Even Caedus admitted that "Luke was the one swordsman in the galaxy he would never challange" (I hope I got the text right, but correct if I'm wrong).
For the record I'd give all 3 to Caedus.
Dooku it seems to me was more of a finesse lightsaber duelist. Jacen from LOTF uses a more powerful form, but it expends energy quickly. So what if Jacen knew shatterpoint? A patient and calculated swordsman knows excatly when and where to strike. Force wise, Dooku is no match. Saber wise, it would go to Dooku. Well, that's my opinion.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Dooku it seems to me was more of a finesse lightsaber duelist. Jacen from LOTF uses a more powerful form, but it expends energy quickly.
So what if Jacen knew shatterpoint?
I sometimes can see the weak places in an opponent—shatterpoints where the unbreakable can be broken.
A patient and calculated swordsman knows excatly when and where to strike
Force wise, Dooku is no match. Saber wise, it would go to Dooku. Well, that's my opinion.
Here is why I'd give the win in saber combat to Caedus and not Dooku.
In his duel with Luke he was able to contend with him and almost killed at one point even before the duel started Ben had already tried to assassinate him with his lightsaber and managed to stab him in the ribs. In the duel he and Luke were described as moving as "blurs."
As a teenager he was able to out duel vong warriors with absolutely
no use of the force, not even on himself, which gives the Vong a big strength and maybe even the speed advantage over a normal human.
He survived a 4v1 attack in which he outdueled Kyle Katarn and at one he would have cut off Katarn's leg had another not made the save, then he would decapitate one of those jedi as well injuring Katarn (via his superior battle awareness compared to all 4 oppenents and force use. ) It is also worth noting that he wasn't even fully healed from his previous fight from Luke yet.
Even after he let Jaina take his useless arm ( I believe it was either that or his throat since he couldn't avoid the attack) he gave her beating during the first duel that Jaina noted that The loss of an arm did not seem to faze him. During their second duel which started by a completely blindsided stab through Caedus's stomach, he almost killed(still with one arm) Jaina and maybe could have taken her with him if he had not decided to stop fighting and warn Tenel Ka of the nanovirus. During their second duel Jaina, noted multiple times that she couldn't believe that Caedus was still fighting after all the wounds he received.
Then he has the age advantage over Dooku,his use of the shatterpoint technique, mastery of Aing-Tii fighting style and the fact that he can take incredible amount of pain that is only surpassed by Darth Sion as far as force users are concerned,leads me to believe that he wins the saber duel.
Valid points Elite Hunter. Very valid points, but all lightsaber forms have a weakness. You must admit that - even Vaapad and Juyo have weaknesses. If using Shatterpoint you can see a weakness yes? But the real question is, "how do I exploit that weakness?" The swordsman may suddenly change tactics on you or switch to another Form. Or he or she may be lulling you into a trap (see Episode I). Maul used the broken lightsaber into making Obi-Wan believe he had the upperhand. Then came the Force push and over the edge he went. That's what I mean by calm and calculated.
Caedus knew when he was ambushed by Jaina, that that first lightsaber wound was probably mortal. He was also hampered by the cut tendon. If a tendon on a leg is severed or damaged, then you're in serious trouble.
On to Kyle Katarn - his angle of attack was predictable. Eliminate Caedus. When you raise the topic of Vong warriors and assassins, didn't Anakin do the same? Rebuttal?
to Darth Truculent
um about the shatterpoint exploting thing..
In ROTS when Mace used the shatterpoint against Palpy, he figured out that palpy didn't want to take the fight near the edge of the window because he was somehow scared. Thats why Windu shattered the glass window and defeated Palpy. Read the ROTS novel it says.
Caedus by far was the strongest (except for Revan save my opinion), but at the same time weakest Sith. Did he kill his Master to claim the title of Dark Lord of the Sith? No. Lumiya was killed at the hands of Luke and Lumiya wasn't really a true Sith either if you think about it. Tahiri was a pathetic excuse for an apprentice. Sure she could summon Force lightning, but so can Jaina and Zekk. Caedus did not exploit his power to its fullest extent. I do not mean that Force wise, I mean that politically. The only one who did that Sidious. Caedus had distractions: Tenel Ka and Allana - those surely should have been the real sacrifices, not Mara. Caedus had to cheat to kill Mara. Boba Fett even said so in Invincible "you aunt nearly handed the barves backside to him."
Anyway, back to my point. Caedus let his feelings for Tenel Ka and his daughter get in the way.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Valid points Elite Hunter. Very valid points,
but all lightsaber forms have a weakness. You must admit that - even Vaapad and Juyo have weaknesses
If using Shatterpoint you can see a weakness yes? But the real question is, "how do I exploit that weakness?
The swordsman may suddenly change tactics on you or switch to another Form
Or he or she may be lulling you into a trap (see Episode I). Maul used the broken lightsaber into making Obi-Wan believe he had the upperhand. Then came the Force push and over the edge he went.
Caedus knew when he was ambushed by Jaina, that that first lightsaber wound was probably mortal. He was also hampered by the cut tendon. If a tendon on a leg is severed or damaged, then you're in serious trouble.
On to Kyle Katarn - his angle of attack was predictable. Eliminate Caedus.
When you raise the topic of Vong warriors and assassins, didn't Anakin do the same? Rebuttal?
Elite Hunter are you sure you're not a lawyer? Lol. Lame excuse for a joke, but you make very excellent arguments.
Dooku heavily favors Makashi. That is a well known fact, but a good lightsaber artist would master at least three others. On my point of angle of attack that is "predictable" - each fighter has an objective right? Defeat your opponent, but if you continually use the same lightsaber form, then others and your opponent will understand how you fight. There are probably many times that Caedus had seen Kyle in action during the Vong War.
Mortal Wound: Thrived on pain yes, but the human body can only take so much damage. Even with the Force, he would have eventually have died from that wound (without medical attention). Sion was killed if you remember, but that's a different story.
Thank you for the discussion Elite Hunter. I look forward to talking to you more in the future.
DT good points. I didn't think of some of them.
also to whoever.. Ben stabbed Jacen in the back with a vibroblade, and Luke stabbed him in the kidney. Those should be mortal right? so I don't think in Caedus' case that a stab to the stomach would be a mortal wound probably due to his accelerated healing and pain tolerance.
In a saber duel, Dooku would lose because of Caedus' shatterpoint ability and he would know that Dooku can't take powerful strikes, and beat him similar to what anakin did. Caedus wouldn't decide to win since he is on the dark side. He would simply just win.
In a Force duel, Caedus would win also because of his increased threshold of pain tolerance and overall power in the force.