Trance Kuja vs. AC Sephiroth

Started by Terryc2502 pages

Terryc250 Senior Member

-continued

Zidane and Co. had their guards up on Terra, did that stop Kuja from winning? No!
Zidane and Co. had their guard up at Crystal World, did that stop Kuja from killing them? No!

Could Kuja teleport them whenever he wanted with their guards up? No. Could Kuja teleport them anytime during the game? No. Could Kuja teleport them at any spot in the game? No. Could Kuja teleport them when they weren't enemies anymore, to save them? Yes.

Do you have A.D.D? I countered this already.
Unless you have something hardcore, I have proved he can do it to whoever, whenever.

ADD? Do you even know what ADD is? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything here rofl. And no you haven't proved anything. Like i said Show me Kuja teleporting his enemy against their will. No don't show me him teleporting allies to save them. The fact that he needed them to go to specific locations before he can teleport them, and the fact that he couldn't do it throughout the entire game. Show me Kuja teleporting someone who is moving fast like Sephiroth, Kuja most likely wouldn't even beable to pinpoint Sephiroth.

*Above facepalm*
Dude, your ego is clearly beyond normal.

?
You apologized to me, and I accepted it.

You talking about Sephiroth summoning meteor again? Yes, I know that wasn't very fast. 🙁

Actually if you haven't noticed, I have not been talking about meteor, because it's irrelevent. If you have the intelligence to figure it out, it was actually you yourself that has been talking about meteor irrelevantly.

Sephiroth has "think" time.
"What move should I do now?" for example.
"Am I superior to this guy as well?" for example.
And my favorite, "Should I toy around with him?"

No he doesn't have "think time" rofl.
Is this going to be your new excuse? "oo Sephiroth needs time to think"
"He requires THINK TIME!"

What are you saying? Sephiroth now has the ability to use any magic, any time? Sephiroth has to use materia to even use magic. Fact.
Magic in FFVII is limited by the power of the used materia. FACT.

Umm no.. just no.. FF7 magic is the power of the LIFESTREAM. Materia helps users TAP into the power of the lifestream. This is FACT. Do not try to argue FF7 facts with me please.

AC Sephiroth did not require materia just as his remnants didn't, they used the power directly from the lifestream. Sephiroth who has full power over his own negative lifestream has powers beyond his remnants. .

That's more to do with the fact that Sephiroth needed to run away a lot.... and Kuja didn't. Not that I'm in a position to disagree with you.

Ok, and Kuja can only use teleport to run away, actually thats alot more true then Sephiroth speed. Kuja has only shown his teleport ability to run away, because it's not instant. Sephiroths speed has been shown in fight.

Yes, they do. And like Sephiroth they have VERY little endurance shown. One little bomb owned Loz and Yazoo.
When it comes to endurance, like master, like remnant.

Thats fail on quite a few levels
This "one little bomb" was a Turn giant TNT explosion
It did not kill the remnants
"like master, like remnant."? Umm no, just no.. The remnants were just a small fraaction of Sephiroths power, Cloud was even able to take them all on and toy with Kadaj. Yet Sephiroth easily toyed with Cloud and could've killed him anytime he wanted.

AC Sephiroth was only killed by Omnislash.

Who says Kuja teleported to Gaia?
Your basically saying that Kuja can teleport to other planets, which I won't argue with.... So, explain what Sephiroth will do it Kuja teleports to the moon, for example, and destroys Gaia.

Once again you're having trouble comprehending english words. I'm "basically" saying Kuja cannot use teleport in crucial moments, for example Sephiroth speeding behind him and about to stab him through the neck, Kuja won't be teleporting away because its not instant enough to help him escape. Once again you cannot show me Kuja teleporting his enemy or someone moving close to as fast as Sephiroth. I guarantee you 100% in dissidia, Kuja cannot teleport any of his enemies or anything of that sort.

Fine, fine.
Like Cait Sith said, they was out of his league. Compared to Kuja, they are also out of his league.
So, what does it prove? Nothing.

Wow you completely miscomprehended the entire point i posted that for, i'll baby feed it for you to understand

You said "I don't remember Sephiroth torturing anyone"

So i posted that thinking you would be smart enough to read the part where the party says

Cid: My...my body... I can't control my body... Uuugh!?

Red: My front legs...my hind legs...my tail's about to rip off!!

Yuffie: I, I don't know if I can...go on.

Which shows he was infact, torturing them.

Yes, I know. It was in such a bad state that it was literally falling apart.
Odin's nuking of Cleyra >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sephiroth bringing down the front part of a building, LMAO, it wasn't even the WHOLE building that fell down.

Again, what does Odin have to do with anything? So, Bahamut Retsu>Odin.

I can go on and name summons more powerful then Odin as well, but thats irrelevent here. Sephiroth brought it down with a thought. It wasn't a magic cast, or a blast, or a shot or anything like that, it was just a thought.

Do I think Kuja could TP out the way or open a portal to another dimension to avoid it? Yes, I do.

No, because he would be stabbed through the neck before he could.

Kuja destroyed Terra, it was childs play to him.

No one was there to stop him. If Sephiroth was there he'd have crushed Kuja with TK and cut him to pieces.

WTF? Try paying attention... I was talking about Kuja's will being to strong for Garland.
Kuja's will power is not that of a weakling.
You can't just assume that Sephiroth can restrain/freeze someone just because he can damage a weak building.

Which holds zero relevance, try using your brain. Just because his will is too strong for Garland, does not mean he has the will of Sephiroth. Yes you can assume he can restrain people because he has done it in a weaker form, duh. He has held 8 people and tortured them, at the same time held back the most powerful spell on the planet, yes in his weaker form.

Just like he did to Cloud? No.
Not even when Cloud was about to Omnislash him? No?
Before you go off on a tantrum saying "Cloud's attack was UBERZ fast."
Instant = Instant. NOT ALMOST INSTANT. [/B]

Did Sephiroth use all of his powers? No. Was he just toying around? Yes.

And the big factor here, was PIS in play? Yes.

Unfortunately for you, PIS won't be involved here.

UltimaKuja Kuja>Sephiroth Nuff Said

Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm no, the fact that he neeeded them to go to a specific spot to teleport them,

Yes, like those SS' I posted. They was all standing in the same spot.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5356/kujaoptele4en9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/19/kujaoptele5dq3.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3904/kujaoptele6ss3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8185/kujaoptele7oz1.jpg

Are they standing in the same spot? No!
Was Kuja in another dimension when he casted the spell? Yes!
Could Kuja even see them? No!
Was Kuja in critical condition when he saved them all? Yes!

Oh, and as for your "Kuja won't be able to find him" crap.... he would be able to sense him.

Proof Kuja can sense: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9513/kujasenseqh3.jpg

and the fact that he couldn't do it throughout the entire game suggests that he cannot do it to people against their will, or against non-stationary opponents.

No. The fact he didn't choose to do it, other then when he actually did, proves absolutely nothing.

Teleporting someone with magic, IS something Kuja CAN do. If you are REALLY trying to say that it would make an ounce of difference if they was moving...... well, thats one very sad argument.

Trance doesn't make him more powerful in every single way, is he faster? No. Does he have more defense? No.

Lets all think about that for a second shall we.... would Kuja even get a small cut from Bahamuts megaflare while in Trance?
As for faster, he got to Gaia and opened a way to Crystal World, BEFORE the fastest ship in the game managed to get to Gaia!

Just because all this stuff ain't in a nice flashy CGI movie, like Sephiroth, don't disprove it.

Kuja got owned by the FF9 party who has no feats to put them on the level of Cloud anyway.

Don't pull this BS on me, JUST DON'T!
Cloud from the game has NOTHING above Zidane. Don't pull this comparison shit on me by comparing Cloud, from the movie, with Zidane, from a PSONE game.

Kuja did not get owned by anyone, unlike Sephiroth.
Kuja reached the conclusion of his natural life span. That is NO F****** WAY ANYWHERE NEAR GETTING KILLED BY CLOUD & CO.
Kuja, on the other hand, managed to kill Zidane & EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS ALLIES.

Who knows why one of his bodies was on the boat. He had a number of bodies everywhere on Gaia.

We only follow one body, the rest just fall over and die on the way to their reunion.
That one body is seen WALKING over land.
That one body is seen taking a boat ride.

If Sephiroth(Jenova) can teleport and fly, ect....
Then why in the entire game does he ONLY EVER use it to run away?
.... Yet, you still claim he can do it at will. Why do you see Kuja's abilities differently?

Yes that "Single" power was stopped by Sephiroth, a "single" Ultima blasts isn't even close to the power of a "Single" Holy,

That single power was CONTAINED/held back by Sephiroth, not stopped.
If Sephiroth did contain an ultima beam, it would not dissipate.
I remind you I said IF.

that "single" Ultima would be stopped before he can fire anything else.

No, you believe that it would be stopped.
Show me Sephiroth stopping a direct attack, like Genesis' fira.
Note: It is not proven that Kuja can't simply fire at least 4 beams on his first shot.

Bugenhagen is basically the Guru of FF7,

Link to that meaning he is 100% correct about everything he says, or it's an opinion.

obviously he wouldn't lie for no reason.

Obviously he don't know EVERYTHING, he even admits to that. So he ain't lying, just incorrect.

It took him like 3 seconds to fire 1 shot,

He clearly wasn't even trying when it took him that long.
Download a better res version then whats on youtube and you can clearly determine that.
I'll give you a link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OMLBXZO7

and each of the rest needed like a second to shoot.

Wrong again. DL the above movie and it should become clear to you.
EVERY shot after the 1st is INSTANT.

Sephiroth would have him frozen

Link to Sephiroth freezing anyone with any real power, or it didn't happen.
Note: I mean a PERSON, not a lifeless building.

If he uses his TK (which works on a thought) it would disrupt Kuja's 3 seconds to fire his first shot, and he'd instantly already be behind him and decapitated.

1st part is your theory.
In no fight Sephiroth has been in has he ever..... EVER instantly appeared behind someone.

(Speed of thought + making it happen < Few seconds)

Fix'd.
So you don't misinterpret, We are talking about Sephiroth using his sword here, not his "almighty" will.

Again you're forgetting that this is AC Sephiroth.
CC Sephiroth<FF7 Sephiroth<AC Sephiroth

He gets stronger, yes.
He gets faster? Link or no dice.

he tanked the fires like nothing anyway.

He NEEDED to tank those firas because he ain't capable of the speed you are assigning him.

Ultima>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fira.

Stop acting like a 10 year old please, thanks.

Stop acting like an ignorant fanboy, thanks.

No, him getting stopped is the logical view in this fight.

Then your "logic" is flawed.

a couple shots of Ultima aren't threatening to Sephiroth because he is faster then them,

Just like he was SOOO fast he dodged all those firas? Again, link to Sephiroth getting faster in AC or it didn't happen.

No, who said we're judging Sephiroth endurance?
First of all, thats not AC Sephiroth
Second of all, Who said FF7 Sephiroth couldn't withstand the temple of ancients collapse?

I said we're judging his endurance.
First of all, thats irrelevant.
Second of all, the FACT that he was right next to it and didn't take it.... Which IS how it happens. My logic concludes that he wouldn't of survived.

And since Odin nuking Clerya is superior to a temple collapsing.
Kuja's ultima is superior to Odin nuking Cleyra.
I can conclude that Sephiroth WOULD NOT have the endurance to survive an attack by Ultima.

AC Sephiroth was only killed by Omnislash.

If Sephiroth can't survive a barrage of slashes from Cloud, then he won't be surviving Ultima.

SHM Senior Member

Kuja did not get owned by anyone, unlike Sephiroth.

Sorry, but Kuja lost the first "round" of the battle.
The party defeated Garland(someone stronger than base-form Kuja), and after that, they owned Kuja too. Then, after being defeated, he absorbed the souls of the Invincible, turned Trance, and the rest you already know.
The fact is: The party is stronger than base-form Kuja, and can beat him.

And you asked me to give proof of AC Sephiroth being able to cast magic.
Where do I start?
1) Sephiroth is 100% Jenova, and as showed many times in FFVII, Jenova's body can cast magic without Materia.
2) The Lifestream is the source of magic in FFVII, and Sephiroth have total control over the Negative Lifestream, so...
3) The creators already said that AC Sephiroth is above any other of his previous forms.

I think that's enough.

And yes, I thought that Seph could beat Kuja, in the past. But I don't think like that anymore.

UltimaKuja Kuja>Sephiroth Nuff Said

Originally posted by Terryc250
Could Kuja teleport them whenever he wanted with their guards up? No.

Wrong again, fruit cake.
Kuja teleported them while Necron was standing right in front of them.
To say their guard was down is preposterous.

Could Kuja teleport them anytime during the game? No.

Thats speculation at best.
Choosing not to do something =/= Don't have the ability to.

Did he choose to teleport them across dimensions, even though he was hurt and couldn't see them? Yes.

Could Kuja teleport them at any spot in the game? No.

He clearly choose where to drop them off, after he teleported them from Necron. So, the correct answer is "YES".

Could Kuja teleport them when they weren't enemies anymore, to save them? Yes.

Could Kuja teleport them before that, because he has to power too? Yes.

You apologized to me, and I accepted it.

I was CLEARLY being sarcastic.
Can't tell that? How old are you, mentally?

No he doesn't have "think time" rofl.
Is this going to be your new excuse? "oo Sephiroth needs time to think"
"He requires THINK TIME!"

I'm glad my attempts of humor are appreciated, this topic needed some after all this "Kuja is better then my fav villain, so ima throw a tantrum" crap.

Umm no.. just no.. FF7 magic is the power of the LIFESTREAM. Materia helps users TAP into the power of the lifestream. This is FACT. Do not try to argue FF7 facts with me please.

Kadaj: "Look at what brother was hiding, powers forged in the lifestream. With this materia, those powers will be ours!"

-Blatantly shows a dependence for materia.
-Shows power needs to be leeched from an outside source to use magic.

AC Sephiroth did not require materia just as his remnants didn't

Above quote anyone? Link, or it ain't how it happens.

Cloud was even able to take them all on and toy with Kadaj.

The only time he took them all on, he got owned. Vincent had to save him.

And he didn't toy around with Kadaj.

Once again you're having trouble comprehending english words.

The irony...... 💃

I guarantee you 100% in dissidia, Kuja cannot teleport any of his enemies or anything of that sort.

Dissidia is a game where all characters will be balanced. This is an entirely irrelevant statement.

Kuja is seen freely flying about the place in Dissidia.

Wow you completely miscomprehended the entire point i posted that for, i'll baby feed it for you to understand
You said "I don't remember Sephiroth torturing anyone"
So i posted that thinking you would be smart enough to read the part where the party says
Cid: My...my body... I can't control my body... Uuugh!?
Red: My front legs...my hind legs...my tail's about to rip off!!
Yuffie: I, I don't know if I can...go on.
Which shows he was infact, torturing them.

Wow.... YOU completely miscomprehended the entire point of my post. Let me get you a bib, cut little guy, yes you are..... yes you are!

Cait Sith says that Sephiroth is out of their leagues. (Which is how he is able to do that)
Well, Kuja would also be out of their league.
So, you can't really argue that because Sephiroth can torture a bunch of weaklings in comparison, he can do it to Kuja.

Did the little guy get that? OH NO! You spilled "FAIL" sauce down your bib.

No one was there to stop him. If Sephiroth was there he'd have crushed Kuja with TK and cut him to pieces.

Aww, poor lil guy needs a dyper change now?

Garland. Zidane. Garnet. Mikoto. Steiner. Quina. Vivi. Amarant. Freya.

All WERE there. All got thrown aside, because unlike Sephiroth, Kuja ain't a fudge-packing retard that don't know how to get things done.

COMPREHEND THAT!

Just because his will is too strong for Garland, does not mean he has the will of Sephiroth.

True. However, the fact his will IS powerful IS confirmed.
You can't say Sephiroth, from FFVII, has a more powerful will then Kuja, from FFIX.

Sure, you can list all the things Sephiroth's will has accomplished, but you still can't prove it.
They come from two completely different universes. Any attempt to say Sephiroths will is stronger then Kuja's will be laughed at.

Did Sephiroth use all of his powers? No.

Correct.
Does that mean anything other then Sephiroth is an over arrogant, "Know-it-all"? For all anyone knows Sephiroth used 90% of his powers.
If you want to dispute that with... "NOOz, he usez'd da oniy 1% of 'is powerz", then I have this to say: Link, or it didn't happen.

GOOD DAY.

SHM Senior Member

And a small correction on your description of AC's Omnislash, UltimaKuja... Omnislash Version 5 isn't just a "barrage of slashes".
It's stated by the creators that the attack happened in an instant, meaning that all of Cloud's strikes during that scene, happened in less than a second(in an instant). We were watching that scene in slow-motion.
And Omnislash Version 5 is a spiritual attack, not a physical one. This is why Cloud's body and his swords, were phasing through Sephiroth's body like ghosts. And this is why, after Cloud stopped attacking him, Sephiroth's physical body was intact.

Resuming: Omnislash Version 5 happens in less than a second, and attacks directly the enemy's spirit/soul.
The nature of Omnislash Version 5 and the nature of Kuja's Ultima, are completely different. They shouldn't be compared.

UltimaKuja Kuja>Sephiroth Nuff Said

Originally posted by SHM
Sorry, but Kuja lost the first "round" of the battle.
The party defeated Garland(someone stronger than base-form Kuja), and after that, they owned Kuja too. Then, after being defeated, he absorbed the souls of the Invincible, turned Trance, and the rest you already know.
The fact is: The party is stronger than base-form Kuja, and can beat him.

You missed the plot of FFIX, I'm afraid.
Kuja obtains the souls from the "eye in the sky", Correct? Yes.
Then he flys down from the Invincible and battles you in order for you to make him angry enough to Trance.
That's why he torments you all the way through the battle.

Yes, TECHNICALLY, you can say he lost.
However, its no where near to the truth. Trance does not recover your strength, it enhances it. After he trances, does he look tired, wounded or hurt? No.

Fact is: He wasn't even trying.

Terryc250 Senior Member

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Yes, like those SS' I posted. They was all standing in the same spot.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5356/kujaoptele4en9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/19/kujaoptele5dq3.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3904/kujaoptele6ss3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8185/kujaoptele7oz1.jpg
Are they standing in the same spot? No!
Was Kuja in another dimension when he casted the spell? Yes!
Could Kuja even see them? No!
Was Kuja in critical condition when he saved them all? Yes!

You've posted these before, and like i said, its not against their will, Kuja was never able to do it against their will.

And another huge point here, prove that Kuja can do it instantly without needing to prep or do anything, if he can do it instantly it could be a battle feat, but its not. It would also explain why Kuja has never been able to do it as a battle feat. It's no different then Sephiroth and his intangeable feat. If Kuja can teleport people instantly without needing to prepare or anything, then Sephiroth can go intangeable and be unharmed by anything.

Oh, and as for your "Kuja won't be able to find him" crap.... he would be able to sense him.
Proof Kuja can sense: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9513/kujasenseqh3.jpg

"Kuja won't be able to find him" <-- I don't recall ever saying that so i don't know where that quote is from. Sensing him is totally different from being able to react to his speed.

No. The fact he didn't choose to do it, other then when he actually did, proves absolutely nothing.
Teleporting someone with magic, IS something Kuja CAN do. If you are REALLY trying to say that it would make an ounce of difference if they was moving...... well, thats one very sad argument.

The thing is, we never actually see Kuja do it, for all we know he needs a ton of time to prepare to teleport other beings, which would explain why he required them to go to a certain spot on disc 3, and why he has never done it as a battle feat, or in mid-battle when he's about to lose.

There is no evidence he can do it instantly on a whim, against speedy people like Sephiroth.

Lets all think about that for a second shall we.... would Kuja even get a small cut from Bahamuts megaflare while in Trance?
As for faster, he got to Gaia and opened a way to Crystal World, BEFORE the fastest ship in the game managed to get to Gaia!

Does Trance improve Kuja's defense? No.

Thats not a battle feat, he has to open a portal to move around, its not instant teleportation, it won't help him in a battle. It will help him travel far distances sure, but in a battle it won't help him.

Sephiroth will behind him in a split second, Kuja won't have the time to open up a portal and escape.

Don't pull this BS on me, JUST DON'T!
Cloud from the game has NOTHING above Zidane. Don't pull this comparison shit on me by comparing Cloud, from the movie, with Zidane, from a PSONE game.

You're in denial but the fact still remains, Cloud has feats far above Zidane, do you honestly think Zidane can basically fly around like superman chopping up buildings like Cloud? Can you really picture that? Zidane had TONS of cutscenes from the game.

Kuja did not get owned by anyone, unlike Sephiroth.
Kuja reached the conclusion of his natural life span. That is NO F****** WAY ANYWHERE NEAR GETTING KILLED BY CLOUD & CO.
Kuja, on the other hand, managed to kill Zidane & EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS ALLIES.

Kuja was getting owned by the party, why else did he resort to going kamikaze? He was losing. Sorry but it's the truth.

We only follow one body, the rest just fall over and die on the way to their reunion.
That one body is seen WALKING over land.
That one body is seen taking a boat ride.

Huh? No Sephiroth had a bunch of bodies walking over the planet, one was seen on the boat, then flew away, one was teleported into the temple of the ancients and teleported out, one was seen in the city of the ancients then flew away, etc.

If Sephiroth(Jenova) can teleport and fly, ect....
Then why in the entire game does he ONLY EVER use it to run away?
.... Yet, you still claim he can do it at will. Why do you see Kuja's abilities differently?

Because flying can be used as a battle feat, so can teleporting, its common sense, and it has been shown, AC, even in KH, Nomura had Sephiroth teleporting around. But there is no evidence at all that proves Kuja can teleport people instantly without needing to prep, or time to do it. Which would explain why he has never done it in a battle or used it as an offensive attack, or why he needed them to go to certain spots.

That single power was CONTAINED/held back by Sephiroth, not stopped.
If Sephiroth did contain an ultima beam, it would not dissipate.
I remind you I said IF.

It would be contained with Kuja, then Sephiroth would just teleport behind him and kill him.

No, you believe that it would be stopped.
Show me Sephiroth stopping a direct attack, like Genesis' fira.
Note: It is not proven that Kuja can't simply fire at least 4 beams on his first shot.

Well whats more powerful, a single Holy, or a single Ultima? Answer, Holy. One single Holy is capable of wrecking a planet, One single Ultima shot isn't, unless a bunch more are fired. Well one took that long to charge, if he was going to try to fire 4 on his first shot logically it would take even longer, and Sephiroth would have even more time to kill him.

Link to that meaning he is 100% correct about everything he says, or it's an opinion.

It's common sense, no video game developer would have a character lie for zero reason at all, Bugenhagen whole role in the game is obviously to give the player information about the planet.

Obviously he don't know EVERYTHING, he even admits to that. So he ain't lying, just incorrect.

.. Thats nonsense, Bugenhagen studies the planet, and he's there to give the player information, there is no reason at all they would put him in the game to give the player incorrect information, thats pointless.

Not even that, but lets look at it with common sense here, The white materia Holy is the antithesis of Black materia Meteor. It's the only thing powerful enough to stop Meteor so it should be atleast as powerful, Meteor is capable of wrecking the entire planet itself, erradicating just about the entire population of the planet. Holy being the antithesis and the most powerful spell, is capable of doing atleast that.

He clearly wasn't even trying when it took him that long.
Download a better res version then whats on youtube and you can clearly determine that.
I'll give you a link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OMLBXZO7

Nothing suggests that if he tries harder the spell will be more powerful, if Vivi tries harder will his Fire be as powerful as Firaga? Or if Dagger tries harder, will her Cure heal as much as Curaga? No. A spell is a spell. The only way it gets more powerful is if the character gets more powerful.

Wrong again. DL the above movie and it should become clear to you.
EVERY shot after the 1st is INSTANT.

No, instant is under a split second, like Sephiroth teleporting into the room was instant. Kuja clearly took longer then that. It's all irrelevant anyway since the first powerup takes a few seconds.

Link to Sephiroth freezing anyone with any real power, or it didn't happen.
Note: I mean a PERSON, not a lifeless building.

End of FF7 before the fight, Sephiroth holds all 8 members up and tortures them. A weaker Sephiroth might i add.

1st part is your theory.
In no fight Sephiroth has been in has he ever..... EVER instantly appeared behind someone.

No its not "theory" it's logic. His weak remnant Loz is even capable of doing that, who is basically just a small fraction of Sephiroths power. Sephiroth was stated as the supreme character of the FF7 world by the creators themselves, and in the FF7 world they have character like Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss, who can blink around as fast as DBZ characters.

Fix'd.
So you don't misinterpret, We are talking about Sephiroth using his sword here, not his "almighty" will.

Huh? The moment he thinks, it happens duh, his TK works on a thought, its his MIND controlling the physical objects to move or hold. Like in AC he looks, and it falls. In FF7 he appears, the whole party gets lifted off their feet.

Terryc250 Senior Member

He gets stronger, yes.
He gets faster? Link or no dice.

Once again this is where your brain and logic comes in. SOLDIERs become stronger by having a bit of Jenova cells infused with them. Lets take Zack for example, he was infused with Jenova cells, and he was capable of dodging multiple machine guns all firing at him with complete ease. CC Sephiroth was capable of outclassing him in speed, him being part Jenova and part human from birth, after that he lost his body, and gained control over body parts of Jenova, he was capable of teleporting and doing a ton of Jenova powers. Now in AC, he was completely Jenova, the entity itself, so imagine the few cells taht turned regular humans into SOLDIERs who can dodge bullets, then Jenova entity itself. Even his remnant who was a fraction of is power was capable of speed blitzing skilled fighters.

He NEEDED to tank those firas because he ain't capable of the speed you are assigning him.
Ultima>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fira.

Do you have a comprehending problem? Or just slow-minded? The title says AC Sephiroth, what part of that don't you understand? The one who fought Genesis was CC Sephiroth before gaining his powers or getting his new body, i've already explained to you a couple times already.

Stop acting like an ignorant fanboy, thanks.

Ignorant because I'm posting logic and facts? Stop posting immature little pictures thinking you're funny when you're just being pathetic. Grow the fcuk up.

Then your "logic" is flawed.

No it's not. Kuja hasn't proven himself or has fought anyone even remotely close to Sephiroth speed, nothing suggests he can handle it.

Just like he was SOOO fast he dodged all those firas? Again, link to Sephiroth getting faster in AC or it didn't happen.

Read above, while opening up your mind.

I said we're judging his endurance.
First of all, thats irrelevant.
Second of all, the FACT that he was right next to it and didn't take it.... Which IS how it happens. My logic concludes that he wouldn't of survived.

Sephiroth has infinite endurance, he cannot get tired because his body is Jenova, he doesn't sweat or anything.

Actually it IS relevent it's like me giving out examples of how Kuja when he was a little kid, then saying thats why he cannot beat AC Sephiroth.
AC Sephiroth and CC Sephiroth are different, AC Sephiroth gained a huge more amount of power, and has a different body.

Uhh he teleported out? Duh.

And since Odin nuking Clerya is superior to a temple collapsing.
Kuja's ultima is superior to Odin nuking Cleyra.
I can conclude that Sephiroth WOULD NOT have the endurance to survive an attack by Ultima.

First of all thats FF7 Sephiroth, and thats one of the most fallacious logic i've ever heard.

The fact that Sephiroth didn't even die in the temple of ancients, he teleported out, and the fact that it was FF7 Sephiroth, not AC Sephiroth.

If Sephiroth can't survive a barrage of slashes from Cloud, then he won't be surviving Ultima.

Kuja wouldn't survive Omnislash either, Omnislash isn't a physical attack it's a spiritual attack.

Terryc250 Senior Member

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Wrong again, fruit cake.
Kuja teleported them while Necron was standing right in front of them.
To say their guard was down is preposterous.

Fruit cake? Good one, you must think you're so cool. It's funny because you don't realize how pathetic you are.

.. That makes no complete sense, it's like saying Cloud had his guard up fighting Enemy1, so it's impossible for Sephiroth to stab him from behind.

But the point is, there is no proof Kuja can teleport his enemies instantly, without needing to prep, or time for prep. Which explains why he's unable to do it throughout the game, or in combat, or why he needed them to go to a specific spot, or in the battles.

Thats speculation at best.
Choosing not to do something =/= Don't have the ability to.
Did he choose to teleport them across dimensions, even though he was hurt and couldn't see them? Yes.

Did he have the entire necron battle to prepare to do that? Yes. Was anyone able to harm him wihile he prepare to do that? No. Could he do it instantly in a battle? No.

I was CLEARLY being sarcastic.
Can't tell that? How old are you, mentally?

No, you are clearly being immature. You are obviously pretty young, but mentally you act like an elementary school kid, why don't you just go google some more nerd pictures?

I'm glad my attempts of humor are appreciated, this topic needed some after all this "Kuja is better then my fav villain, so ima throw a tantrum" crap.

Who's throwing a temper tantrum? I'm not. I'm laughing because you're funny, in a sad way.

Kadaj: "Look at what brother was hiding, powers forged in the lifestream. With this materia, those powers will be ours!"
-Blatantly shows a dependence for materia.
-Shows power needs to be leeched from an outside source to use magic.

Yeah, thats when he got materia. The 3 men had no materia before that but had a little bit of power over the negative lifestream, because they are Sephiroth remnants, which is why they were able to summon the shadow creepers. Sephiroth has 100% control over the negative lifestream as he is the creator of it.

Above quote anyone? Link, or it ain't how it happens.

Already proved you wrong? Shadow creepers, they're magic, did Kadaj and friends have materia at that time? No.

The only time he took them all on, he got owned. Vincent had to save him.

Did you have trouble comprehending the movie? Cloud was basically emo and had geostigma when he first fought them. After he started getting better, he fought 2 of them and beat them both, then owned Kadaj.

Wow.... YOU completely miscomprehended the entire point of my post. Let me get you a bib, cut little guy, yes you are..... yes you are!
Cait Sith says that Sephiroth is out of their leagues. (Which is how he is able to do that)
Well, Kuja would also be out of their league.
So, you can't really argue that because Sephiroth can torture a bunch of weaklings in comparison, he can do it to Kuja.
Did the little guy get that? OH NO! You spilled "FAIL" sauce down your bib.

LOL, god how i hate debating with little kids.

I never said ANYTHING about "LEAGUES" the whole entire point of me posting that quote was to show you that Sephiroth can TK and TORTURE his people. So i don't know why you are starting to discuss "leagues" when it holds no relevance to the topic we were discussing in the first place

You asked me to prove Sephiroth can torture with TK, and i posted that. Leagues has NOTHING to do with it.

Aren't you embarassed posting your pathetic comments after making yourself look like an idiot?

Aww, poor lil guy needs a dyper change now?

LOL I feel sorry for you, i really do. I hope you're not like this in real life. Seriously, don't you get embarassed? I mean saying crap like that just spells "loser" on your forehead.

Garland. Zidane. Garnet. Mikoto. Steiner. Quina. Vivi. Amarant. Freya.
All WERE there. All got thrown aside, because unlike Sephiroth, Kuja ain't a fudge-packing retard that don't know how to get things done.
COMPREHEND THAT!

And? Those guys in terms of power and ability are nothing to Sephiroth.

True. However, the fact his will IS powerful IS confirmed.
You can't say Sephiroth, from FFVII, has a more powerful will then Kuja, from FFIX.
Sure, you can list all the things Sephiroth's will has accomplished, but you still can't prove it.
They come from two completely different universes. Any attempt to say Sephiroths will is stronger then Kuja's will be laughed at.

Powerful compared to the FF9 maybe, but in terms of feats, Sephiroth has far more. His willpower was able to stop physical things and even the most powerful spell on the planet, his willpower is so powerful that he could will himself to not die and force himself from merging with the lifestream, even the director and character designer of the final fantasy series praises Sephiroths willpower. Kuja has never done anything like that with his will

Correct.
Does that mean anything other then Sephiroth is an over arrogant, "Know-it-all"? For all anyone knows Sephiroth used 90% of his powers.
If you want to dispute that with... "NOOz, he usez'd da oniy 1% of 'is powerz", then I have this to say: Link, or it didn't happen.
GOOD DAY. [/B]

Once again this is where your brain comes in, its been stated Sephiroth became the new evolution of Jenova, and all of Jenova's powers have been mentioned and shown throughout the series, Sephiroth has displayed his TK powers, the power of the lifestream has been explained in FF7, and it's feats have been shown, Sephiroth indeed has control over this as its been stated and shown. Sephiroth has been stated to be the supreme character of FF7 world, which means he's even more powerful then Chaos Vincent who can basically smack the planet to quake, Omega Weapon, Minerva, etc.

Schwarzenegger Restricted

I got a question, is kuja the strongest guy in ff9?

SHM Senior Member

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I got a question, is kuja the strongest guy in ff9?

Hard to know.
Normal Kuja? No, because Garland is stronger than him.
Trance Kuja? Maybe... But some people think that Necron is stronger than him.

Pyron_Knight Eater of Worlds

Sephiroth ever destroyed a planet?
Nope?
He loses. Simple as that.

ThunderGodEneru Senior Member

That's not sound dude.

Goku can destroy a planet, yet Superman, who cannot, would stomp Goku in an all out fight.

Simply being better at busting isn't enough of an argument to grant you the win.

Kirikaze Fuuma Kaze no Soldier

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Goku can destroy a planet, yet Superman, who cannot, would stomp Goku in an all out fight.

your opinion.

ThunderGodEneru Senior Member

There is no "opinion" about that. You presented nothing to that debate, and then tried to use Superman from the JL cartoons to discredit him. So stfu.

Kirikaze Fuuma Kaze no Soldier

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
There is no "opinion" about that. You presented nothing to that debate, and then tried to use Superman from the JL cartoons to discredit him. So stfu.

everybody can make a mistake. and next time try to differentiate an opinion and facts.

Terryc250 Senior Member

Destruction power does not = win.

A person with a grenade will not kill a person with a gun faster.

Zack Fair Fanboy

I thought Last Order was not canon. Not that Zack dodging all that fire is out of character since well...he is enhanced and all that shit. Just making sure what is canon and what is not.

BTW I think Kuja should win, but I'm a copout and not argue about it because I simply do not have the devotion to enter an endless debate.

Keep it up you 2...I'm learning stuff about both chars.

Edit Just noticed someone said Cloud went through Bahamut's flare without damage...I was under the impression he was wounded/killed and was healed/revived by Aerith. I swear I read somewhere that Cloud actually died, but that must have been from my days in GameFAQs and people hardly post sources there so I don't know. It still looked like he wasn't going to make it if it wasn't for Aerith.

ThunderGodEneru Senior Member

He died when Yazoo shot him at the end of the movie.

Zack Fair Fanboy

Well yeah that much is certain.