Originally posted by RobtardNeither of those pics were takedown attempts, so it's hard to argue that Tyson would do that to "any MMA guy shooting for his legs." Tyson has the KO power, but that isn't a reliable answer to a takedown as we've seen in countless fights now. It is possible, but it is not consistent.
This is what Tyson in his prime would say to any MMA guy shooting for his legs:
*snipped for space*
During a proper double leg, you'd step through your opponent's legs and put them off balance before the actual "take down" happens. You can't generate much power without the use of your hips, as Tyson is doing there. That's not including set ups like this simple one from Georges St. Pierre.
GSP feints with his left hand causing Alves to move his head right and sidestep, allowing GSP to drop levels and go for the double. GSP uses more of a blast double than a standard double leg, but the point is there.
Against Georges St. Pierre, Tyson wouldn't have the luxury of GSP ducking while patiently waiting to land an uppercut. GSP would already have him falling over before Tyson throws the punch. Not to mention, Alves has better takedown defese and had a much better stance than Tyson would have for stopping takedowns.
Is it possible to KO someone on the shoot? Hell yes. Is it likely? Not from what we've seen in years of fights.
Originally posted by batdude123
No. Mike would get put on his ass like it was nothing, because he doesn't have any takedown defense. From there, he'd be flipping and flopping around on his back like a fish out of water.
If being able to KO your opponent with a single blow when they shoot and BEFORE they take you to the floor isn't "having any take-down defense" to you, then you're a bit nutty in the head, guy.
Originally posted by StyleTime
GSP feints with his left hand causing Alves to move his head right and sidestep, allowing GSP to drop levels and go for the double. GSP uses more of a blast double than a standard double leg, but the point is there.Is it possible to KO someone on the shoot? Hell yes. Is it likely? Not from what we've seen in years of fights.
Tyson wouldn't likely fall for the "look at my left hand" trick. He's a professional boxer; he generally knows when a punch is real or feinted. Measuring the punching, shoulder-position and head-movement of his opponent is his forte.
Because MMA doesn't have any fighters with the punching power, speed and tenacity Tyson has shown in his prime. The man could duck down almost with his knees touching the floor and rise with a devastating uppercut in the blink of an eye.
GPS would wake up 2 minutes later wondering what happened and speaking improper French.
Originally posted by Robtard
If being able to KO your opponent with a single blow when they shoot and BEFORE they take you to the floor isn't "having any take-down defense" to you, then you're a bit nutty in the head, guy.
You're a bit "nutty in the head" if you think all Tyson needs to stop a takedown is an uppercut, friend.
Tyson loses every single time against a heavyweight wrestler. Every. Single. Time.
Originally posted by batdude123
You're a bit "nutty in the head" if you think all Tyson needs to stop a takedown is an uppercut, friend.Tyson loses every single time against a heavyweight wrestler. Every. Single. Time.
Yes, because people shooting are impervious from being KO'd. Right.
Seems your angle is fanboy then?
Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, because people shooting are impervious from being KO'd. Right.Seems your angle is fanboy then?
But Tyson is impervious to being taken down when he's never fought a wrestler before, and has absolutely no idea how to defend a takedown. Right.
My angle is logic. Of the two of us, I'd say the one arguing that a guy who only knows how to fight in the most limited form of combat sports would beat any of the most well-rounded fighters on Earth in a real fight is a fanboy.
Tyson gets put on his back = he's done.
Originally posted by batdude123
But Tyson is impervious to being taken down when he's never fought a wrestler before, and has absolutely no idea how to defend a takedown. Right.My angle is logic. Of the two of us, I'd say the one arguing that a guy who only knows how to fight in the most limited form of combat sports would beat any of the most well-rounded fighters on Earth in a real fight is a fanboy.
Tyson gets put on his back = he's done.
He knows how to KO a fool coming low at him; he's done it before. So to act like it's impossible and could "never" happen is silly.
You used to wrestle in High School, huh?
Yes, if that happens before he shuts off the fool's engine with a hit, he's done. Though he was an impressively strong man and knew how to bite, as shown.
Originally posted by Robtard
He knows how to KO a fool coming low at him; he's done it before. So to act like it's impossible and could "never" happen is silly.You used to wrestle in High School, huh?
Yes, if that happens before he shuts off the fool's engine with a hit, he's done. Though he was an impressively strong man and knew how to bite, as shown.
The problem is, like in the gif you posted, the guy was simply ducking with his guard up and he was a stagnant target. He wasn't grabbing Tyson's legs and trying to drive through his body. "Could" Tyson catch a guy before being taken down? Of course. Anything is possible. But the vast majority of the time, Tyson gets taken down.
I'm more of a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu guy, to be honest. But I have learned freestyle takedowns and Greco-Roman takedowns from the clinch.
Good point about the biting. Nobody's ears are safe as long as Mike is around.
Originally posted by Robtard
Tyson wouldn't likely fall for the "look at my left hand" trick. He's a professional boxer; he generally knows when a punch is real or feinted. Measuring the punching, shoulder-position and head-movement of his opponent is his forte.Because MMA doesn't have any fighters with the punching power, speed and tenacity Tyson has shown in his prime. The man could duck down almost with his knees touching the floor and rise with a devastating uppercut in the blink of an eye.
GPS would wake up 2 minutes later wondering what happened and speaking improper French.
Anderson Silva and several others have those same attributes....along with high level grappling. That is the problem for boxers. MMA fighters know the tools of boxing while boxers are nearly clueless about MMA. Ducking, which is a bigger risk in MMA due to things like knees, doesn't even begin to account for his disadvantage.
Keep in mind, I haven't even gotten into the other forms of takedowns or striking out there. There are several fighters who could likely KO Tyson without grappling.
As for GSP, GSP would have Tyson tapping out less than a minute into the first round.
Heck, Tyson has openly admitted that toe stomps would take him out of the fight.... 😖hifty:
Also, this is two ex-champions going at it:
James Toney vs Randy Couture.
Let's just say Toney wasn't close of grabbing the victory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt8thufC6oo
Originally posted by StyleTime
A feint doesn't actually look any different until it's pulled back. You're just triggering their reflexes long enough to do something else. Fighters fall for them even at higher levels, just like Thiago Alves did up above. Besides, it's just one example of a set up. Tons exist, and Tyson had little knowledge of them.Anderson Silva and several others have those same attributes....along with high level grappling. That is the problem for boxers. MMA fighters know the tools of boxing while boxers are nearly clueless about MMA. Ducking, which is a bigger risk in MMA due to things like knees, doesn't even begin to account for his disadvantage.
Keep in mind, I haven't even gotten into the other forms of takedowns or striking out there. There are several fighters who could likely KO Tyson without grappling.
As for GSP, GSP would have Tyson tapping out less than a minute into the first round.
Heck, Tyson has openly admitted that toe stomps would take him out of the fight.... 😖hifty:
Pretty spot on.