Originally posted by Classic NES
Furthermore, Gut is very fast watch his sword fight with Zodd.
While Kenshin has reacted to both gunfire and canon balls.
Basically I thought this thread was bullshit. I respect kenshin and all but kenshin only fights people, strongest person he ever fought was shishio (cause it was a cheapass team battle against him though badass XD) not that guy in the filler people get over it.
Kenshin
Arguably faster than guts that I'll give him that.
He knows Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū which once again arguably could give a chance.
High fighting spirit, great technique and skill but overall his body is weak and has been proven sensitive to blows.
However...
Guts
Guts sword would easily cleave kenshins reverse sided blade, even if he had a regular sword. A katana won't ****ing cleave or withstand hard and heavy hits against a zweihander.
Guts ****ing fights apostles basically demons.
Guts has beserk armor ****ing increases his already greater than kenshin's endurance. And also it increases his speed just a few levels short of kenshins.
Guts has way more endurance than Sanousuke or anyone else Kenshin ever fought.
Guts would slice kenshin into 2 if the two swords collided.
Guts wins sorry yaoi Kenshin Fanboys and girls...
With Berserk armor I've give this match to Gutts no problem. All he would have to do is outlast Kenshin.
Without his Berserk armor Kenshin takes him. I've read both manga and the difference in speed between Gutts and Kenshin is rather big. Kenshin would never have to block simply because he's fast enough to avoid his attacks and hit him at will.
I actually do like Gutts more than I like Kenshin but I'm calling the fight like I see it.
Originally posted by OgreMan
With Berserk armor I've give this match to Gutts no problem. All he would have to do is outlast Kenshin.Without his Berserk armor Kenshin takes him. I've read both manga and the difference in speed between Gutts and Kenshin is rather big. Kenshin would never have to block simply because he's fast enough to avoid his attacks and hit him at will.
I actually do like Gutts more than I like Kenshin but I'm calling the fight like I see it.
I completely agree with you equipped with beserk armor kenshin wouldn't stand a chance.
Remember in Samurai X where Kenshin took down a small army with firearms?
Power = Kenshin (clean sweeping rocks, trees, multiple armored soldiers, etc.)
Stamina = Draw, slight edge to Gutts?
Endurance/durability = Kenshin (can take punches which can pulverize rocks) without armor of any sort.
Reaction speed = Kenshin
Movement speed = Kenshin
Techniques = Kenshin
And I don't see how you can think that Kenshin is given the slight edge in speed, when he killed a room full of soldiers prepared for him before they even realized that he was entering.
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
small army with firearms. yes i remember. you remember the time when Guts took down the entire Kushan raiders on his own when they attacked the Hawks at night. he's pwned Kushans on several occasions and Kushans are ninja with exotic weapons and projectiles. arrows, thorwing arrows, rings and god knows what.
and that's STILL a speed feat.okay, now you're just being ridiculous. Kenshin uses the iaijitsu technique to cut through several soldiers which makes use of wind displacement AS the blade. it requires great strength, yes, but its more of a speed feat than power feats. Guts uses plain arm and shoulder strength to cut through ARMORED horses, ARMORED men, often including their swords. metal, my friend, is more durable than stone. and Japanese armor is designed for maneuverability and is not even close to the amount of protection that european armor offers. heck, not only do knights have armor but also chainmail. no way is Kenshin more powerful than Guts. cuts rocks in half, dude Guts was shown crushing a rock and a sword with his hand grip at one point. he even punched through a wall at one point in the beginning issues.
please. tower of albion arc alone began with Guts running at top speed to the town which was miles away, came in town and fought the gaurds who were harrassing the prostitutes, raided the tower and fought his way up the tower (running up those steps was rest assured a biatch), fought Mozgus's goons, fought their demonic forms, survived the collapsing tower, got out of the rubble and started fighting their ghostly forms, attacked and fought Mozgus, fought the demons spawn thing, survived another collapse of the tower, got out and fought the kushans, picked up Caska and fought his way through an entire platoon of the Kushan army while escaping. and that lasted about 12 hours because Guts came into the tower around evening and the whole charade ended in the morning. and notice that Guts's didn't even once mention fatigue or even appear to be out of breath. he was still ticking after all that. Kenshin has done NOTHING evne comparable ot half of this. and notice that this is just one arc of Berserk and that since then Guts has only gotten stronger. heck, at one point he took down the entire horde of demons while whistling. don't even get me started on what all he did in the Eclipse
stamina is in Gut's backpocket....😐
-took lightning bolts several times and went right through the lightning cloud that pealed off his entire skin and covered him with scars
-eclipse......had no armor then
-fell 100ft plus on solid rock but still didn't lose consciousness and was still willing to fight
-rammed through several pillars repeatedly till he lost consciousness
-took a giant serpeants' tail attacks repeatedly without losing consciousnes and just got up and started fighting and swung his sword around.........the sword that two grown up men couldn't lift! note that the snake dude said that just one of those attacks would kill a man. it wasn't guts' armor bub, it was Guts.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
the reason ClassicNES put me on the job is because anyone who knows anything about berserk knows how redundant it is to even start mentioning Guts's endurance feats 😂Guts has dodged arrows at close range and even dodged lighning. on top of that he went toe-to-toe with a demon that was using an axe as a whip....and notice, that a whip cracks only because it goes at speed faster than sound. and notice also that this was a crazed human being possessed by a demon....the amount of power in those blows was insane. and guts beat him straight up and was blocking ALL his blows. notice also that the people present said that they couldn't even see the demon's movement. he also caught Serpico's sword with his barehand and [b]shattered
the blade. and Serpico was skilled and very fast in his swordsmanship but Guts simply caught it.okay.
arguable. after all the things Guts has done in his career, i highly doubt Kenshin is more skilled. not by much, but i do think Guts>Kenshin interms of skill. never seen Kenshin parry invisible axe strikes nor have i seen him take on entire armies without breaking a sweat. not to mention, that Guts fights people like Zodd on equal terms. and dude, Zodd's sword swings were practically a blur. their fight on the hill of swords was an epic because Rickert could barely make out their movements. Zodd's not slow. his speed is....inhuman.
read above.
~Sado [/B]
I mostly agree with what you said but I don't Guts is faster than kenshin even with beserk armor on not that it matters anyway that little extra speed boost kenshin has won't stop him from getting his ass handed to him and served on a plate by guts.
Originally posted by Sado22
small army with firearms. yes i remember. you remember the time when Guts took down the entire Kushan raiders on his own when they attacked the Hawks at night. he's pwned Kushans on several occasions and Kushans are ninja with exotic weapons and projectiles. arrows, thorwing arrows, rings and god knows what.
and that's STILL a speed feat.
Arrows and throwing daggers does not even travel at the speed of sound. And still, Gatts have been hit multiple times.
Furthermore he could take down a room full of soldiers, waiting for him, before they even saw him. Gatts has never demonstrated such abilities--the hundred men army Gutts took down took him multiple minutes, Kenshin take down dozens of soldiers in one-panel clean sweeps.
Originally posted by Sado22
okay, now you're just being ridiculous. Kenshin uses the iaijitsu technique to cut through several soldiers which makes use of wind displacement AS the blade. it requires great strength, yes, but its more of a speed feat than power feats. Guts uses plain arm and shoulder strength to cut through ARMORED horses, ARMORED men, often including their swords. metal, my friend, is more durable than stone. and Japanese armor is designed for maneuverability and is not even close to the amount of protection that european armor offers. heck, not only do knights have armor but also chainmail. no way is Kenshin more powerful than Guts. cuts rocks in half, dude Guts was shown crushing a rock and a sword with his hand grip at one point. he even punched through a wall at one point in the beginning issues.
And Sosuke could crush stones with his bare hands (later he even learned how to turn them into dust). And Kenshin is physically stronger than Sosuke--this is proven before the Shishio arc, when Sosuke wants to go to Kyoto and gets humiliated in hand to hand combat.
Originally posted by Sado22
please. tower of albion arc alone began with Guts running at top speed to the town which was miles away
Originally posted by Sado22
and that lasted about 12 hours because Guts came into the tower around evening and the whole charade ended in the morning.
Originally posted by Sado22
he was still ticking after all that. Kenshin has done NOTHING evne comparable ot half of this. and notice that this is just one arc of Berserk and that since then Guts has only gotten stronger. heck, at one point he took down the entire horde of demons while whistling. don't even get me started on what all he did in the Eclipse
Originally posted by Sado22
...😐
-took lightning bolts several times and went right through the lightning cloud that pealed off his entire skin and covered him with scars
-eclipse......had no armor then
-fell 100ft plus on solid rock but still didn't lose consciousness and was still willing to fight
-rammed through several pillars repeatedly till he lost consciousness
-took a giant serpeants' tail attacks repeatedly without losing consciousnes and just got up and started fighting and swung his sword around.........the sword that two grown up men couldn't lift! note that the snake dude said that just one of those attacks would kill a man. it wasn't guts' armor bub, it was Guts.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
You're getting a lot of numbers random numbers from, well I don't know where. Certainly not the manga.
And there are scans of Gatts getting wounded by swords and arrows. While many of Kenshin's enemies, weaker than Kenshin himself, have taken strikes from katanas, without any armor.
Originally posted by Sado22
Guts has dodged arrows at close range and even dodged lighning. on top of that he went toe-to-toe with a demon that was using an axe as a whip....and notice, that a whip cracks only because it goes at speed faster than sound. and notice also that this was a crazed human being possessed by a demon....the amount of power in those blows was insane. and guts beat him straight up and was blocking ALL his blows. notice also that the people present said that they couldn't even see the demon's movement. he also caught Serpico's sword with his barehand and shattered the blade. and Serpico was skilled and very fast in his swordsmanship but Guts simply caught it.
Originally posted by Sado22
arguable. after all the things Guts has done in his career, i highly doubt Kenshin is more skilled. not by much, but i do think Guts>Kenshin interms of skill. never seen Kenshin parry invisible axe strikes nor have i seen him take on entire armies without breaking a sweat. not to mention, that Guts fights people like Zodd on equal terms. and dude, Zodd's sword swings were practically a blur. their fight on the hill of swords was an epic because Rickert could barely make out their movements. Zodd's not slow. his speed is....inhuman.
Originally posted by Astner
Reacting to bullets and cutting a clay canon ball (with the same velocity as a normal canon ball) in half are all signs of supersonic movements.Arrows and throwing daggers does not even travel at the speed of sound. And still, Gatts have been hit multiple times.
Furthermore he could take down a room full of soldiers, waiting for him, before they even saw him. Gatts has never demonstrated such abilities--the hundred men army Gutts took down took him multiple minutes, Kenshin take down dozens of soldiers in one-panel clean sweeps.
That's why it's a power and not a strength feat.
And Sosuke could crush stones with his bare hands (later he even learned how to turn them into dust). And Kenshin is physically stronger than Sosuke--this is proven before the Shishio arc, when Sosuke wants to go to Kyoto and gets humiliated in hand to hand combat.
Evidence requested--he ran the entire way, and that the town was miles away.
The fight did not take 12 hours.
In the eclipse he got his ass whopped. And he haven't slain a single apostle without effort. The other demons were all pretty weak.
The swords weighs about a half ton, we all know that--considering the length, height, width and the fact that it's made of steel. It's however not a durability feat.
You're getting a lot of numbers random numbers from, well I don't know where. Certainly not the manga.
And there are scans of Gatts getting wounded by swords and arrows. While many of Kenshin's enemies, weaker than Kenshin himself, have taken strikes from katanas, without any armor.
I would like to see that dodging of lighting. And Serpico is nowhere near Kenshin's level of speed.
Invisible axe strikes now? Anyways, Kenshin, after his training in Samurai X did defeat armies by himself--it's even hinted in the first chapter of the manga that he took out an entire army (not a hundred footmen). Before he switched to the reversed blade he stood face to face with the entire opposing army (not a hundred soldiers or so). And apparently he won--and this was before he learned Ryo no Ken (can't remember the full name of the technique).
Sanousuke is physically stronger than kenshin during the shishio battle Sanousuke took considerable damage not only once but in twice of his matches. Kenshin has been called a tensei and is the battousai many of his victories have been attributed to his great speed and skill with a katana.
Kenshin never fought hundreds of people by himself, if you mean that scene in the end of the ova that basically shows kenshin fighting in the war, he is never completly fighting by himself. Btw they weren't just plain footmen they were a 100 contracted bloodthirsty mercenaries.
The reason it took guts minutes to win his fight against 100 people is 1 he had been damaged previously. 2 He was trying to defend Caska so he took unnecessary damage.
The damage you'd take from a katana is nothing compared to that of a zweihander and other medieval european weaponery (spears, battle axes, arrows, great swords). Japanese weaponery(sais,katanas,shurikens, etc) were created to be light, sleek and small so that japanese people who not very big themselves would be able to use them quickly and effectively. Truth be told if Guts sword hit contact with kenshin's katana it would break the katana.
Reacting to bullets and cutting a clay canon ball (with the same velocity as a normal canon ball) in half are all signs of supersonic movements.
Arrows and throwing daggers does not even travel at the speed of sound. And still, Gatts have been hit multiple times.
Furthermore he could take down a room full of soldiers, waiting for him, before they even saw him. Gatts has never demonstrated such abilities--the hundred men army Gutts took down took him multiple minutes, Kenshin take down dozens of soldiers in one-panel clean sweeps.
That's why it's a power and not a strength feat.
And Sosuke could crush stones with his bare hands (later he even learned how to turn them into dust). And Kenshin is physically stronger than Sosuke--this is proven before the Shishio arc, when Sosuke wants to go to Kyoto and gets humiliated in hand to hand combat.
Evidence requested--he ran the entire way, and that the town was miles away.
The fight did not take 12 hours.
In the eclipse he got his ass whopped. And he haven't slain a single apostle without effort. The other demons were all pretty weak.
You're getting a lot of numbers random numbers from, well I don't know where. Certainly not the manga.
And there are scans of Gatts getting wounded by swords and arrows. While many of Kenshin's enemies, weaker than Kenshin himself, have taken strikes from katanas, without any armor.
Invisible axe strikes now? Anyways, Kenshin, after his training in Samurai X did defeat armies by himself--it's even hinted in the first chapter of the manga that he took out an entire army (not a hundred footmen). Before he switched to the reversed blade he stood face to face with the entire opposing army (not a hundred soldiers or so). And apparently he won--and this was before he learned Ryo no Ken (can't remember the full name of the technique).
~Sado