Originally posted by Jolly Jim
Nebaris, you have disabused me of the illusion that basic proficiency in the English language leads to improved thought patterns.
In the immortal words of Darth Sexy, "Rolling on the floor laughing." You do realise that this would literally translate into "Nebaris, you have freed me of the illusion [disabused] of the illusion that basic proficiency in the English language leads to improved thought patterns." right? Clearly the whole grammar thing isn't quite your forté Jim, I'd suggest sticking to your strengths: drawing up ridiculously long lists.
While I find it difficult to admit that someone so clearly able to communicate can be so dense, I feel that I have no choice. Rejoice, for you have managed to do what Gideon couldn't: you have (mostly) cured me of Grammar Nazism. If such idiotic and thickheaded ideas can be communicated through (generally) correct English then maybe it is possible for good ideas to be presented in atrocious English. BOOG might have had the right idea- he was at least closer to the truth than you are.
You know, you appear to be unable to leave this BOOG character’s name out of your posts. I don't know if it's out of love or admiration, but it's clearly somewhat sexually motivated and BOOG wanted me to personally tell you that he will call the authorities if your antics continue.
Also, because you ignored it, in big letters this time:
That's wonderful, now substantiate what being "one of the greatest" in a 25,000 year old, Galaxy wide organisation actually means. Does this put Dooku in the top 100? 1,000? Until you can actually quantify the statement, it means nothing in this scenario.
No.
Please. You need to possess a Darth Sexy level of gangster at the very least to pull that off.
Quite frankly, Sion has shown no command of the Force.
Right, because using the Force to cheat death, something completely unprecedented that virtually all Sith have wanted to achieve, displays absolutely no command of the Force. You’re absolutely right Jim, it’s not the remarkable, unique demonstrations that are actually impressive, it’s the constantly repeated street level ones! Yeah, no.
Even if you wanted to claim that was his only display, he also displays the ability to channel enough energy to propel his body at speeds completely beyond the ability of somebody like Kreia to comprehend and react to. In physical combat, the man's a beast unlike any other. He's even more deadly than Darth Bane.
He is able, by sheer force of will, to compel his body to continue operations.
You're clearly ignorant of how his ability works then. It allows him to hold his body together, survive as his life is being drained out of him, retain his connection to the Force as Nihilus attempts to destroy it; basically anything that will ultimately kill him, the ability appears to prevent. It's hardly limited to the physical plain.
By all accounts (mostly Kreia) this is an instinctive technique. As such, it does not count as an indicator of Force mastery.
Except it's quite clearly not an instinctive technique, the man himself described it as something he learnt through "the trials of pain and anger"; your buddy wookiepedia can tell you as much. And Kreia states no such thing; you're either lying, misinformed, or guessing. If anything what she says might lead one to think that his ability is his defining feature, however nothing indicates that it's instinctive, and Sion's own words would contradict that. It's absolutely remarkable, and fully testament to his regular level of ability.
Kreia's Force mastery is clearly greater than Sion, but to what degree is impossible to tell.
I'll ignore this, seeing as it would be somewhat unnecessary to go out of my way to argue Sion's superiority against his own team mate.
Also, Kreia's Force mastery is clearly greater than Sion's*
Her greatest (only?) feat is the murder of 3 no-name Jedi Masters with a Force Sever/Drain.
Referring to them as no-name Jedi doesn't make them no-name Jedi; Kavar earlier on in the game displays the Force prowess to put dozens of guards surrounding him into stasis with a single gesture; and Vrook and the-other-guy-I-can-not-remember-the-name-of were both on the Jedi's High Council (as was Kavar) which as we know requires demonstration of both strength and character. And Kreia effortlessly dominated all three at once. It puts to shame anything we see Dooku do, and that's not even mentioning Kreia's showings in other areas (her ability to completely cloak herself from surrounding Jedi Masters, seeing thousands of years into the future with detail and understanding among other things. She's displayed to be far more versatile and powerful as far as the Force is concerned).
That one accomplishment is not enough to put her near, let alone above, the level of Count Dooku.
As far as I was aware, the man doesn't even have a level. The only notable demonstrations he's ever made with the Force consist of doing exactly what Kreia did, to fewer, and in most cases distracted, Jedi. He attacks Assaj Ventress with the Force at a moment's notice with no real warning or justification (meaning it was unlikely that her Force defences were prepared), he overpowers Obi-Wan and Anakin in the middle of a fast paced lightsaber battle in a sudden manner that likely caught them off guard, he does the same to Sora Bulq, he overpowers Quinlan Vos, a relatively untrained Jedi with absolutely no notable displays of Force use to his name. Am I missing something? As far as overpowering Jedi with the Force, absolutely nothing he demonstrates even remotely compares to Kreia's casual domination of three Jedi High Council Members.
The PT era has been described as 'the prime of the Jedi.'
Irrelevant misdirection. The Jedi being described in such a light was a reference to their lightsaber ability. And even then it was left ambiguous as to whether that was the PT Jedi specifically and not simply the organisation before it had been reduced to what it was by the OT period.
It contains masters like Depa Billaba, Kit Fisto, Yoda, and Mace Windu. By no stretch of the imagination are any of these characters weak, nor is there any question of their mastery over the Force.
The first two aren't depicted as being anything other than average as far as Force prowess is concerned; their mastery can most definitely be questioned if you're going to assert that they were particularly impressive in the department. Not to mention Depa wasn't even around at the time the statement was made. Mace Windu isn't displayed to be especially masterful of the Force; Shatterpoint came naturally to him and as such is no indication of his regular level of Force mastery as you yourself point out, and Yoda's immaterial here given that he was making a comparative statement about his own students.
During this time period, Yoda, the Grandmaster of the Order and the 'most powerful Foe the Darkness had ever known'
Again, irrelevant. Yoda's value is immaterial here given the fact that he's naturally not included as one of his own students.
declared Count Dooku to be the strongest, best and most learned in the Force of all of the Jedi of the Clone Wars:
Best and strongest are ambiguous and meaningless in this situation given that you cannot assert that they have anything to do with Force prowess. And that, in Yoda's opinion, he was more learned in the ways of the Force than any of the other "students" means nothing until you can substantiate how learned in the ways of the Force the era in general was (rather than asserting that they were by no means weak and that their mastery isn't up for question), how this makes him compare to Kreia, and what how learned you are in the Force actually means as far as Force prowess is concerned. He's naturally at an advantage anyway considering his learning of the Force consisted of both Jedi and Sith teachings (an advantage the rest of the Jedi of his era didn't possess, and one that Kreia did).
Even if you wanted to compare them in that regard, when we were talking about general prowess anyway (control and strength), Kreia still has him beaten. She had access to Malachor V's (a planetary library of Sith teachings) entire knowledge base, however much the Jedi had allowed her when she had been a Jedi Master, a comparable amount of learning time that Dooku possessed, and on top of that she appeared to be somewhat of a scholar, dedicated to the learning of the Force. Dooku on the other hand had whatever the Jedi allowed him as a Jedi Master (no advantage for either of the two), whatever Sidious allowed him as his apprentice (advantage: Kreia), and a comparable amount of learning time (no advantage for either of the two), much of which was likely spent on lightsaber combat given his natural propensity for the art and his specialisation in the department as evident by his position as lightsaber instructor and Qui-Gon’s comments in Dark rendezvous (advantage: Kreia). Logic would dictate that Kreia was more learned in the ways of the Force.