Originally posted by Burning thought
What do you mean? the monsters always do a frontal assault at least in case wtih the big ones, the smaller ones are sometimes more stealthy. And canonically the larger weapons would be harder to carry, hed be able to prob carry one heavy weapon, I mean how many shots do heavy weapons usually have? not many....theres a lot more shots required to kill the larger mosnters than a few, I think they outlive most vehichles.Can you actually show me the info please? a link that would suggest Brutes are bigger, ive only played to completion the first game and from that I dont remember brutes being as large as Hellknights, I only remember fat, sluggish things with high endurance.
Thats what I mean, they appear suddenly in hell, the only time they are slowly brought in is when you first meet them. But my main issue is that Chief could not strategically run about taking into account positions, because his opponents do not technically excist in the area until they are suddenly ported in.
Chief will have little chance to do any of those things...if youve seen the Doom environments and as DSZ has said, MC will be fighting in tiny corridors, he would not have hardly any running room, would be in danger of getting pushed into a small space himself or surrounded.
Also the rockets in Halo are meant to be anti-vehicle, while the Doom ones are strictly more antipersonell.
Those 'fat sluggish things' in the first game are Hunters. Brutes weren't introduced to the Halo series until the second game.
I cannot give you a Bungie-direct link, but the numbers on this handbook say 2.8m in height and 510 kilos. Since the handbook actually came with the game itself and is not an outside novel, it technically can be referred to as a game manual and used as canon info.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Jiralhanae
If they're in hell and instantly ported in - as in, sent from somewhere, that simply gives them a few seconds advantage until Chief gets his bearings.
Those are all possibilities, yes, yet the Doom marine managed to avoid all that and he's not physically on par with Chief, as a soldier. Chief's fought opponents while being severely outgunned in confining spaces too, such as in the Halo installations and the inside of ships.
Originally posted by DarkC
About the same scale as to their damage - Brute RPGs with 5 grenades per belt, rocket launchers with 2, FR guns with 5 (with arguably the same stopping power as the rocket launcher)Also the rockets in Halo are meant to be anti-vehicle, while the Doom ones are strictly more antipersonell.
Those 'fat sluggish things' in the first game are Hunters. Brutes weren't introduced to the Halo series until the second game.
I cannot give you a Bungie-direct link, but the numbers on this handbook say 2.8m in height and 510 kilos. Since the handbook actually came with the game itself and is not an outside novel, it technically can be referred to as a game manual and used as canon info.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Jiralhanae
If they're in hell and instantly ported in - as in, sent from somewhere, that simply gives them a few seconds advantage until Chief gets his bearings.
Those are all possibilities, yes, yet the Doom marine managed to avoid all that and he's not physically on par with Chief, as a soldier. Chief's fought opponents while being severely outgunned in confining spaces too, such as in the Halo installations and the inside of ships.
Well 2 rocket hits are not enough to kill a Mancubus, playing I remember they take about 6 or more, and even then I think I tossed bundles of grenades.
What makes you think their more anti-personel?
fair enough but why is this important? Ive not seen Chief combat brutes, Hellknights on the other hand can take many many shots, infact the same as Mancubuses I think.
Its an advatnage still, the very fact their not sitting about for Chief to formulate some kind of plan reduces his ability to fight them, when their coming at him down the small corridors.
Well, Doom marine has other weapons at his disposal that the Chief does not, like the Soul cube (regens his wounds and instant kills opponents), the BFG9k and his weapons seem to carry more ammo (rocket launcher 5 missles). Also imo, without PIS and gameplay mechanics, the Doom marine would have died, no doubt about it. How he actually did it we dont know, since the the canon he "does" but how? we only have gameplay to justify.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well 2 rocket hits are not enough to kill a Mancubus, playing I remember they take about 6 or more, and even then I think I tossed bundles of grenades.What makes you think their more anti-personel?
Also, so far as I can tell (I'm playing through D3 right now) everything appears to be indoor or limited outdoor, there's no vehicles.
Originally posted by Burning thought
fair enough but why is this important? Ive not seen Chief combat brutes, Hellknights on the other hand can take many many shots, infact the same as Mancubuses I think.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Its an advatnage still, the very fact their not sitting about for Chief to formulate some kind of plan reduces his ability to fight them, when their coming at him down the small corridors.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well, Doom marine has other weapons at his disposal that the Chief does not, like the Soul cube (regens his wounds and instant kills opponents), the BFG9k and his weapons seem to carry more ammo (rocket launcher 5 missles). Also imo, without PIS and gameplay mechanics, the Doom marine would have died, no doubt about it. How he actually did it we dont know, since the the canon he "does" but how? we only have gameplay to justify.
Pretty much any human protagonist in a game like this has some advantage that they're given in order to survive impossible odds - Chief with MJOLNIR, Doomguy with weapons, Gordon Freeman with another suit, etc.
Originally posted by DarkC
You pretty much answered your own question with the first passage.Also, so far as I can tell (I'm playing through D3 right now) everything appears to be indoor or limited outdoor, there's no vehicles.
That's exactly why it's important, they can soak up damage like a sponge as well and are extremely tough. If you don't manage to get out of the way of an enraged one lowering its shoulder at you, you're f**ked.
Correct, albeit not one that the Chief cannot compensate for.
That's pretty much why he's alive, he has very good weapons at his disposal.
Pretty much any human protagonist in a game like this has some advantage that they're given in order to survive impossible odds - Chief with MJOLNIR, Doomguy with weapons, Gordon Freeman with another suit, etc.
Theres no vehicles other than space ships and things from what I remeber in Doom, thats not a reason to assume the rocket/missle launcher in the game was created as an anti-personal rocket. although in the game of Doom 3 there are no vehichle opponents, that does not mean there are not in the fiction of the universe.
So your saying Chief is vulerable to Brutes, thus he will be to Hell knights?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no vehicles other than space ships and things from what I remeber in Doom, thats not a reason to assume the rocket/missle launcher in the game was created as an anti-personal rocket. although in the game of Doom 3 there are no vehichle opponents, that does not mean there are not in the fiction of the universe.So your saying Chief is vulerable to Brutes, thus he will be to Hell knights?
If a rocket containing the capacity to annihilate a vehicle cannot kill a walking biped in one shot, something is wrong. You said it takes six. That leads me to believe that the rocket launcher from Doom packs destructive capability more akin to a Brute RPG, which is still respectably powerful.
Kind of a moot point, Chief's technically 'vulnerable' in the sense that he can be hurt/killed by a Brute, but only if he lets them. Even in the games, they require ridiculous amounts of firepower to kill (other than a few point-bursts to the head), takes a full clip of grenades from the Brute RPG to down a captain.
Originally posted by DarkC
Considering that the corridors of Mars City and etc contain rather narrow and tight packed corridors, it would defy common sense to have something like that shipped to a facility.If a rocket containing the capacity to annihilate a vehicle cannot kill a walking biped in one shot, something is wrong. You said it takes six. That leads me to believe that the rocket launcher from Doom packs destructive capability more akin to a Brute RPG, which is still respectably powerful.
Kind of a moot point, Chief's technically 'vulnerable' in the sense that he can be hurt/killed by a Brute, but only if he lets them. Even in the games, they require ridiculous amounts of firepower to kill (other than a few point-bursts to the head), takes a full clip of grenades from the Brute RPG to down a captain.
Well, having rocket launchers shipped to a peaceful(before the incident) research center would also defy common sense. Come to think of it, I think I remember reading on one of the PDAs that the Mars Base personnel needed the rocket launcher to clear debris or something.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, having rocket launchers shipped to a peaceful(before the incident) research center would also defy common sense. Come to think of it, I think I remember reading on one of the PDAs that the Mars Base personnel needed the rocket launcher to clear debris or something.
Asking on-site personell to use a rocket launcher for the simple purpose of clearing debris is like asking someone in the NHL to play a game wearing figure skates.
Given, it would be pretty fun, but still.
Originally posted by DarkC
Considering that the corridors of Mars City and etc contain rather narrow and tight packed corridors, it would defy common sense to have something like that shipped to a facility.If a rocket containing the capacity to annihilate a vehicle cannot kill a walking biped in one shot, something is wrong. You said it takes six. That leads me to believe that the rocket launcher from Doom packs destructive capability more akin to a Brute RPG, which is still respectably powerful.
Kind of a moot point, Chief's technically 'vulnerable' in the sense that he can be hurt/killed by a Brute, but only if he lets them. Even in the games, they require ridiculous amounts of firepower to kill (other than a few point-bursts to the head), takes a full clip of grenades from the Brute RPG to down a captain.
It would defy common sense to ship any such missle or high explosive. And they already have anti personal weapons in the form of machine guns, chain guns etc etc if thats not enough anti-personel I dont know what is.
Or demons from hell are more durable than you give them credit for, theres no reason to belive the rocket launcher is not made for destroying vehichles, I dont remember the actual reason (I think one may have been given) for a rocket launcher to be there in one of the logs but an explosive weapon of any magnitude on an environment of such gravity is always a bad idea unless to be used on veihcles and rocks like AG says. I mean if your fighting opponents down corridors, its more practical to use a machine gun, not an explosive, not in such air tight gravity system.
Well exactley, but I bet chief usually has more room to manouver in these sitations in Halo? and their not teleported randomly on top of him like Hell knights can?
Originally posted by Burning thought
It would defy common sense to ship any such missle or high explosive. And they already have anti personal weapons in the form of machine guns, chain guns etc etc if thats not enough anti-personel I dont know what is.Or demons from hell are more durable than you give them credit for, theres no reason to belive the rocket launcher is not made for destroying vehichles, I dont remember the actual reason (I think one may have been given) for a rocket launcher to be there in one of the logs but an explosive weapon of any magnitude on an environment of such gravity is always a bad idea unless to be used on veihcles and rocks like AG says. I mean if your fighting opponents down corridors, its more practical to use a machine gun, not an explosive, not in such air tight gravity system.
Well exactley, but I bet chief usually has more room to manouver in these sitations in Halo? and their not teleported randomly on top of him like Hell knights can?
I'm sure they are, but it's not the demons themselves that I am measuring it against. Unless you're regarding physics, they'd still be very much susceptible to the Halo rockets. Look at the concussive force behind them.
No, just active camouflauged ones periodically.
Imagine invisible Hellknights armed with RPGs (among a rather diverse arsenal of Covenant weaponry, and also working intelligently to coordinate each other to set up an ambush.
Yep.
Wow, huh... Nearly 2 years old...
I'm re-raising this thread because I remember a few details of the weapons being discussed from these later posts.
Doom 3 did have vehicles in it, the large landrover that Swann used to get to Delta being one. However, vehicles do not make up any inferrance for enemies. Unless you include the Tank treaded Sabaoth/Sarge.
2, The Rocket Launcher was mostly shipped to Mars for weapons testing, much like the prototype MKIII Plasma Guns are, And was subsequently used by lazy maintenance workers and Z-Sec members for debris clerance.
A few other points I would like to raise:
Hellknights would be more comparable to hunters than to Brutes, the sheer level of physical strength is more comparable to Hunters, simply because of the level of destructive capacity they ensure while doing smple movements compared to a Brute, who only reaches such strengths during berzerker status, and even ten it's still far short. Then there is the Knights ability to throw what is apparently a giant plasma grenade...
I honestly can say that the Rocket Launcher is more akin to a Fuel Rod Gun more than a Brute Shot in terms of destructive capacity and range.