Originally posted by Publius IIWell to get all semantical: Luke's blade hit the leather bound wrist, not the actual glove. I think cortosis went something like: purer, unrefined cortosis made for poor armor but against a lightsaber it intercepted the loop of energy that forms the blade, short circuiting it temporarily. When manufactured into alloyed armor or swords it became capable of blocking a saber, but not shutting down.
What cortosis doesn't? There might be a weave or something, but even then it wouldn't be on his glove. He's had that hand struck or cut off at the wrist at least twice.
Originally posted by Publius II
I've never heard that before. I know the MagnaGuards' electrostaffs are made of some alloy that isn't cortosis and that Mandalorians have their own brand of iron, but that's about it as far as lightsaber deflection goes (to my knowledge).
Kar Vastor and his Akk Guards were armed with shields made of a superconducting alloy that could block lightsabres as the blade's energy was instantly conducted away (Shatterpoint).
As stated above, electrostaffs are made of phrik.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why don't Jedi/Sith fight only using force powers?
Originally posted by Publius II
Misquote on your part.And we've seen plenty of Jedi in the EU deflect entire swaths of blasterfire with the Force.
And we've seen plenty of Jedi who can't.
Originally posted by Publius II
Grievous isn't a Jedi or Sith, and he's far more capable than the overwhelming majority of Force-users; more skilled, faster, stronger, and a quicker study.And so long as you're bringing Grievous up; Obi-Wan, after quickly besting him in a duel, sends him flying several dozen meters through the air with a Force-push when the two are separated by mere inches. Kit Fisto floors him with a similar attack, and Mace hurls him off of a train after a somewhat prolonged duel, again with a Force-push. Some of the only scenes in which he repeatedly dodges Force-attacks are in the last volume of the CWC - which is contradicted by LoE and therefore the G-canon RotS novel - are possibly N-canon, although there may be one in the first volume when he attacks the exhausted, terrified, and stunned Jedi on Hypori.
That's three guys, all of whom are at the top of the ladder. Now look at the numerous Jedi Grievous killed. Plus, if those three guys hadn't had their lightsabres they would have never survived long enough to do those pushes.
Originally posted by Publius II
Palpatine was overwhelming Mace Windu with his lightning while feigning weakness,
I'm sure the fact that said lightning was fired at point blank range had nothing to do with that.
Plus you'll notice that he was still blocking that lightning, seeing as he wasn't killed instantly. Do you honestly think Mace would have faired better bare-handed in that encounter?
Originally posted by Publius II
So again, lightsabers exist to make the movies look cool. It's that simple. Most Jedi and Sith - especially the latter, whom Sidious notes would only use a lightsaber to "humiliate" the Jedi - should have no need for one.
No lightsabres exist because the vast majority of Jedi/Sith need them and would be killed very quickly without them. It's that simple.
In short, if two Jedi/Sith fight, one has a lightsabre and the other doesn't, most of the time the armed one will win.
Plus, as Darth Truculent pointed out they have great power as symbols.
Okay, so let's say both sith/jedi have lightsabers, and one is very skilled in the force but not so good in swordsmanship, and the other one is very good with the lightsaber, but not so good with the force. Who is more likely to win? (A more general question would be which factor has a bigger impact on the result of a duel: skill in swordsmanship or skill in the force?)
The one strong in the force, s/he can block his/her opponents precognitive power and f*ck up their whole fighting style. They'd also be faster, stronger and look cooler.
Not to mention that they could just crush they're opponent by overwhelming their Force-defences before they even got within striking distance (see pretty much all of ROT Bane's fights)
Originally posted by chilled monkeyThat had as much to do with the fact that it was a vibroshield as it did the nature of the alloy itself, which is believed to have been scavenged from starship hulls. If a lightsaber was held against the shield, it would have melted.
Kar Vastor and his Akk Guards were armed with shields made of a superconducting alloy that could block lightsabres as the blade's energy was instantly conducted away (Shatterpoint).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why don't Jedi/Sith fight only using force powers?
I'm not sure you understand that I'm looking at this from an OOU perspective.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyWe've never seen a Jedi fail to block blasterfire with the Force while attempting to, we've seen Jedi simply not try to block blasterfire with the Force. Hence, PIS, because all they would need to would be erect some sort of semisolid or at least tangible telekinetic barrier several feet outwards. The blaster bolt would "collide" with the barrier, and the energy would dissipate before hitting the Jedi provided they'd given themselves enough distance.
And we've seen plenty of Jedi who can't.
If the average Jedi on Geonosis could throw a solid-metal battle droid through the air with a wave of his hand, he could easily managed to erect a field with at least the necessary density to break a blaster bolt. If skin, flesh, and clothing break them, a weak forcefield could, too.
That's three guys, all of whom are at the top of the ladder.Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto are nowhere near the top of the ladder when it comes to power in the Force. Both are impressive, but there are many individuals in even their own era who appear to outclass them.
Now look at the numerous Jedi Grievous killed.And count how many of them used the Force against him.
Plus, if those three guys hadn't had their lightsabres they would have never survived long enough to do those pushes.That's assuming they were retarded and ran at him with their bare hands instead of, y'know, just starting the fight by telekinetically tearing his lightsabers out of his hands.
I'm sure the fact that said lightning was fired at point blank range had nothing to do with that.Feigning weakness.
And please don't gloss over my points. Palpatine killed the first two Jedi Masters with one stroke apiece before Mace or Kit could intervene despite there being three or four seconds between the moment he leapt from his desk and the first stroke. That's a hell of a lot more body movement than a flick of the wrist, which is all it would take to kill at least two of the masters immediately. If three or four seconds isn't enough time for them to properly set up against Palpatine, they definitely won't be able to muster anything up in under one second.
Plus you'll notice that he was still blocking that lightning, seeing as he wasn't killed instantly.Again, feigning weakness to stall for Anakin. The alternatives include throwing Mace out the window or snapping his neck.
Do you honestly think Mace would have faired better bare-handed in that encounter?No, but that's entirely situational; I never said that Jedi should never use a lightsaber. But in this case, it's like carrying around an RPG just in case a helicopter comes after you. PIS aside, the overwhelming majority of Jedi should be fully able to survive most situations Jedi tend to find themselves in, and they should be able to do so without a lightsaber. Dramatic necessity and aesthetics naturally demand otherwise.
No lightsabres exist because the vast majority of Jedi/Sith need them and would be killed very quickly without them.Thanks to PIS, and that alone.
Again, you're apparently not understanding that I'm looking at this from an outside perspective, treating it as what it is. I'm not arguing the in-universe details much.
In short, if two Jedi/Sith fight, one has a lightsabre and the other doesn't, most of the time the armed one will win.The average Sith would probably slaughter the average Jedi regardless of armament.
Sorry for reposting this but apparently not many people observed it.
Okay, so let's say both sith/jedi have lightsabers, and one is very skilled in the force but not so good in swordsmanship, and the other one is very good with the lightsaber, but not so good with the force. Who is more likely to win? (A more general question would be which factor has a bigger impact on the result of a duel: skill in swordsmanship or skill in the force?) Thanks for answers/opinions. 😄
Originally posted by Darth NUsually the Force; a Jedi with less Force connection/training is a Jedi with less skill with a saber. If the Force-savvy opponent uses telekinesis or Force Lightning against the swordsman, then... the swordsman's chances of survival are poor. Existent, but poor.
Sorry for reposting this but apparently not many people observed it.Okay, so let's say both sith/jedi have lightsabers, and one is very skilled in the force but not so good in swordsmanship, and the other one is very good with the lightsaber, but not so good with the force. Who is more likely to win? (A more general question would be which factor has a bigger impact on the result of a duel: skill in swordsmanship or skill in the force?) Thanks for answers/opinions. 😄
The one strong in the force, s/he can block his/her opponents precognitive power and f*ck up their whole fighting style. They'd also be faster, stronger and look cooler.Not to mention that they could just crush they're opponent by overwhelming their Force-defences before they even got within striking distance (see pretty much all of ROT Bane's fights)
I like this thread question because I am a noob myself. I am enjoying the discussion, but I must say that General Grievous still irritates me. The laws of the GFFA apparently permit him to contend with the Jedi very well, but it is hard to shut off the 'common sense' button sometimes.
A Jedi would surely wish to use the force to scrap him.
Actually its interesting on how the lightsaber is a uber of power. So many jedi and sith attach themselves to a tiny thing of light. A lightaber any weapon only achieves its worth from the user.
But a lightsaber is "special" because the jedi controls the force and binds it the lightsaber,it is what makes it function. The beam is the force itself and reflects the jedi's energy.
I like to say that they dont need one to have power or respect,but there are times that the force cant be used and only a lightsaber can save them in a battle. But just gainst a dark jedi or jed,yeah why would they need a lightsaber to fight? I say they can use the force and kill efficiently.
But truley there is no weapon that can compare to the powerf othe force,the force is life. Its god and devil,its in everything even in machines,its the particles coming from the universe or dark matter. It emanates from stars planets and is channeled from higher dimensions . The more power a jedi weilds the less he she is restricted to natural laws, they even can pass through solid objects or leave this plane and come back.
To me the lightsaber is a conduit to enhance or heip channe lthe force,yet it still is very limited.
Originally posted by Alkaselzer
...yeah, I don't think that that is canonically true about needing the Force to power a lightsaber. The Jedi become attached to the thing because it is part of their training and they are never without them if they can help it.
Thank you. I didn't have the heart to tell him he is wrong.
I like to see it like this. The Force is the mastermind, while the lightsabers are the minions. The mastermind controls the minions, but you cannot win a war without them.
Although in the first scripts of Star Wars everyone was supposed to have a lightsaber ... And I'm glad they changed that. Imagine all the stormtroopers in A New Hope running around with lightsabers, that'd just ruin the 'amazing' battle between Obi and Vader.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Thank you. I didn't have the heart to tell him he is wrong.
Liar.