Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Europe in the middle ages VS modern America. FIGHT!I'm interested to see any arguments in favor of the Holy Roman Empire. See what I did there?
How come almost every time you post something, it has to be insulting? Remember, LOTR universe has Sauron/The Nine/Gandalf/Trolls/etc.
That wasn't even insulting. Lyke, @ all.
It is blatantly obvious who the victor in your (amended) scenario would be. Heck, 15 guys with machine guns could've taken out most of Isengard's army at Helm's Deep. That you insist on continuing this (amended) spite thread says something about you, though I'm not sure what. That I'm still posting says something about me, although again, I'm not entirely sure what that might be.
Originally posted by Red NemesisYou're really annoying.
Even if you put those restrictions on, I still get the massive armies of Angband, the Numenorians at their height (which would have been enough to overcome the Valar) and the High elves. The combined population of good and evil armies of the entire history of the universe would be more than the number of bullets earth could produce. (AND I GET TROLLS!)
Anyway, depending upon one's definition of supernatural, I could include Dragons since they were simply corrupted versions of Natural animals. Artificial Selection FTW! I also call dibs on Wargs.
O......K? I assume that you aren't going to allow the 'Lord of the Rings' books (or movies) as intel for earth. That would mean that we don't know about it. Flamethrowers aren't standard equipment.
That isn't what I was going to say at all.
Sauron was beat by someone lying on the ground with a broken sword. He wasn't a threat any more. The likelihood of a modern soldier cutting off an enemy's hand is incredibly small.
Fixed. [/B]
Here, you say that trolls and high elves could help middle earth win, and you still get those! And just to be fair, I'll add in the Numenorians (and please don't say that I'm changing the thread again because it's in your favor (you favored middle earth and adding them in helps middle earth)). So really, in this thread you claim that middle earth could beat the USA w/the Numenorians/High Elves/etc, and now you're saying that this is a spite?
Basically, the thread title is USA vs All of Middle Earth. My position is that the sheer numbers of the massive armies throughout this world's history (especially during the First age and the Height of Numenor [which I guess was second]) would overcome the United States' ability to kill. The supernatural titans (Morgoth and Manwe) would overshadow even the modern military powers.
Middle earth is high fantasy but low magic. It needs the unimaginable numbers of combatants (and dragons and whatever the dragon-machine things were that Morgoth sent after the Elves) to even have a remote chance. If you exclude the few powerful supernatural creatures of the 'verse then it isn't much different from making a thread between medieval Europe and any modern force. That is why it is spite.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Basically, the thread title is USA vs All of Middle Earth. My position is that the sheer numbers of the massive armies throughout this world's history (especially during the First age and the Height of Numenor [which I guess was second]) would overcome the United States' ability to kill. The supernatural titans (Morgoth and Manwe) would overshadow even the modern military powers.Middle earth is high fantasy but low magic. It needs the unimaginable numbers of combatants (and dragons and whatever the dragon-machine things were that Morgoth sent after the Elves) to even have a remote chance. If you exclude the few powerful supernatural creatures of the 'verse then it isn't much different from making a thread between medieval Europe and any modern force. That is why it is spite.
In the quote that I quoted, you said that all of middle earth to ever exist - Eru/Morgoth/etc. would still win. Well...
Al of middle earth in history minus anyone above Sauron would STILL lose. (if you were to include Eru and such, then it would be a spite in another way).
First of all, let's say that Middle Earth replaces Europe (they have a similar structure). OK then...so how exactly are they going to get to America? Sail there? And how are they going to get past the US navy (the most powerful navy to ever exist)? Modern ships can launch missiles at a range exceeding 200 miles. What are their ships going to do? Or will they win because they have "ancient ships crafted long ago"?
What are the "Numenorians at their height" going to do? Sure, they're taller, stronger, more advanced (still nothing compared to the USA) and live longer than third age men, but being taller and stronger won't let you resist a bullet. There are too few high elves, and even they can't resist bullets (although their archery skill + excellent eye sight will certainly get a few kills).
Gandalf may help as a tactitian/morale boots/strategist, but in terms of sheer fighting power, one powerful person doesn't make a difference in a WAR unless if they're superman or something. Same with Sauron, the Nine and dragons.
Originally posted by jaden101
The modern US army is getting its ass handed to it in Afhganistan by a few hundred rag heads with outdated weapons and a chemistry set.For context.
"outdated weapons?" sure, they're outdated by 40 or so years, but:
1. Middle Earth is outdated by a thousand or so years.
2. The US army isn't "getting its ass handed" to it, infact numerically they are "winning" considering the death ratio
3. The terrorist hide. They don't reveal that they're the enemy until they decide to. If it were an all out war, the terrorists would get butt stomped
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
3. The terrorist hide. They don't reveal that they're the enemy until they decide to. If it were an all out war, the terrorists would get butt stomped
I'm pretty sure there's a lesson in there somewhere.
Regardless...You want a case for middle earth?
The army of the dead.
Originally posted by jaden101
The modern US army is getting its ass handed to it in Afhganistan by a few hundred rag heads with outdated weapons and a chemistry set.For context.
I was unaware that the U.S. had lost a single engagement in Afghanistan. lol. But that somehow equates to the U.S. losing? Just because they've shown restraint and compassion for civilians and human rights doesn't mean they're losing. There's no other nation in the world right now that has a military force great enough to really threaten the U.S. (disregarding nukes, which the U.S. has the greatest missile defense system e.g. airplanes with lasers). The U.S. also has the largest military budget, and can maintain a fight longer than anyone else based on gdp. Any other single country would go broke buying the means at which to fight with. But again to reiterate, the U.S. hasn't lost any engagements in Afghanistan, the U.S. has the most sophisticated and powerful army, and Middle Earth would lose b/c we could nuke the entire place from space (I'm assuming the two planets aren't being merged into one since that wasn't stated).
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I was unaware that the U.S. had lost a single engagement in Afghanistan. lol. But that somehow equates to the U.S. losing? Just because they've shown restraint and compassion for civilians and human rights doesn't mean they're losing. There's no other nation in the world right now that has a military force great enough to really threaten the U.S. (disregarding nukes, which the U.S. has the greatest missile defense system e.g. airplanes with lasers). The U.S. also has the largest military budget, and can maintain a fight longer than anyone else based on gdp. Any other single country would go broke buying the means at which to fight with. But again to reiterate, the U.S. hasn't lost any engagements in Afghanistan, the U.S. has the most sophisticated and powerful army, and Middle Earth would lose b/c we could nuke the entire place from space (I'm assuming the two planets aren't being merged into one since that wasn't stated).
Your view that Afghanistan even resembles a conventional war shows what little you know about what is really going on in that country. Does it not even register that even today Obama announced that he's sending 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan? Clearly not the actions of someone who believes it's a won war. You could probably argue that the US never lost too many conventional "engagements" in Vietnam. Would you claim that the US won that one too?
Here's something to think about.
1: The Afghan war has now been going on for 3 years longer than WW2.
2: There is now more Taliban than there was in 2001
3: No outside army has EVER conquered Afghanistan.
Regardless...It's an entirely seperate debate.
Again. How does a nuke kill an army that's already dead?
Originally posted by jaden101
Your view that Afghanistan even resembles a conventional war shows what little you know about what is really going on in that country. Does it not even register that even today Obama announced that he's sending 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan? Clearly not the actions of someone who believes it's a won war. You could probably argue that the US never lost too many conventional "engagements" in Vietnam. Would you claim that the US won that one too?Here's something to think about.
1: The Afghan war has now been going on for 3 years longer than WW2.
2: There is now more Taliban than there was in 2001
3: No outside army has EVER conquered Afghanistan.Regardless...It's an entirely seperate debate.
Again. How does a nuke kill an army that's already dead?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"outdated weapons?" sure, they're outdated by 40 or so years, but:1. Middle Earth is outdated by a thousand or so years.
2. The US army isn't "getting its ass handed" to it, infact numerically they are "winning" considering the death ratio
3. The terrorist hide. They don't reveal that they're the enemy until they decide to. If it were an all out war, the terrorists would get butt stomped