Superman getting knocked out

The continuation:

Originally posted by Endless Mike

No a character stated it as 81 billion tons - in dialogue, which can be wrong. Actual physical observations trump dialogue when interpreting fiction.

My point is nobody suggest not even Superman, Hardware and Icon that Batman is wrong.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, that's the opposite of how you analyze fiction. Characters in fiction are fallible - they can be wrong about things. When there is a conflict between something a character says and something that is actually shown, we always go with the latter, since it has less chance of being wrong. Furthermore, you are using a stolen concept fallacy - if you claim the figure of 81 billion tons is correct despite the evidence against it, then what makes you so sure a ton in DC is the same as a ton in real life? You said yourself that fiction is inconsistent with real life. Going by your logic, a ton in DCverse could be a billion tons in real life. After all, "real world science" is what defines what a ton is. So you are using it when you claim a number of tons means something, despite the fact that you are claiming it should not be used.
I suggest you give this article a read before replying again (don't worry, it's not that long)

Characters in fiction is just fiction created by writers and we don't need to use psychology or whatever kind of real life solution or analysis to solve this kind of problem. Their writers what matters most in the end, even if they commit a mistake in real life applications or science.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Again, it's not 81 billion tons. Adhering so religiously to character dialogue over statements is the mentality of a poor debater. Since you trust Batman so much, do you believe him when he said Superman could split the earth in half with a sneeze? Second of all, you obviously claimed the moon's mass was what knocked him out, because if it had no mass, then colliding with it would do no damage (assuming it was made out of conventional matter, which it clearly wasn't).)

My point is nobody suggest not even Superman, Hardware and Icon that Batman is wrong. About the moon's mass, pulverizing an 81 billion tons moon is the reason why Supes got knocked out and not the mass alone.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Now from the article on Neron:

Thus the unknown factor I was speaking of is finally identified: Magic

Something Superman is weak to. Problem solved.

Blatant lie. You don't have Justice League of America 30. Neron has nothing to do in Justice League of America 30. Show me where it was stated in Justice League of America 30 that magic was the power source of the shadow moon.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Learn to extrapolate - it's a reasonable assumption given the fact that he has taken worse and been better off. Furthermore, I can provide evidence. The pseudo-moon was created by Shadow Thief (with his power amped by Starbreaker).

From the wikipedia article on Shadow Thief

Blatant lie. It's the second time you proved me that you don't have Justice League of America 30. Using wikipedia is not a valid evidence and it wasn't Starbreaker that amped Shadow Thief's power but the Shadow Cabinet's shadowslide of teleportation system. I keep on telling you before that Icon knew it, if you have the comics you would recognize my clue that Shadow Thief's power source was the teleportation system. I will show you the scan which proves that Starbreaker or Neron didn't amp Shadow Thief's power and you don't have Justice League of America 30.

Here's the scan:

Read Rocket's statements.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He had to carry the entropy bomb to the center of the Sun-Eater, and the explosion was equal to 50 supernovae. He was clearly caught in it and that was far, far greater than moon or planetbusting. Stop trying to downplay his feats..

Blatant lie. 50x Supernova didn't hit him but the electromagnetic shockwave.

J. Kent's statement:

"Electro-magnetic shockwave came rushing towards Clark at the speed of light."

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Really? You have [b]every Superman comic ever printed on your PC? Excuse me if I find that a bit hard to believe. I don't think they even make hard drives with that much storage space...[/B]

At least I'm not using wikipedia as comics evidence. Like what I said before, name me the issue where the feats happened and I will show it here.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Please show me where it said he was knocked out. Furthermore it was a double planetbuster....

Blatant lie. He was knocked in the scan, please take a look at the scan. It was dark, then it shows Superman's face waking up.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Blatant lie. Darkseid teleported away before the planets collided. He was killed by Orion after he lost the Soulfire powerup, and that was still part of his plan so he could be reincarnated for Final Crisis. You act like such an expert but you get so many things wrong. Oh, and if you're going to lie, it's a good idea not to post scans that disprove your own claims. It says "Orion will be dispatched to deal with Darkseid", meaning he is STILL ALIVE.

My point here is that SFP-Darkseid was driven off by a planet buster.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I saw him being carried away with the explosion. You do realize that explosions can move things right? Put a rock next to a bomb and set it off, if the rock doesn't break apart it will be knocked far away. Doesn't mean it wasn't right next to the bomb when the explosion started...

Being carried away by the explosion is not a ground zero explosion. Do you know what ground zero explosion means?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
So that automatically means the explosion didn't do any damage? It destroyed the moon, which means it did release destructive power. Superman was inside of it. Just because it triggered a time warp as a side effect doesn't mean the explosion didn't hit him. If the moon was just sent back in time then you would have a point, but it wasn't, it exploded....

Blatant lie. Here’s another example of an explosion that triggered a time warp, read Superman's statement below:

Look, the last thing Superman remembers is trying to stop the bomb from detonating and the next thing he knows he’s there. There’s no memory of him inside the explosion or ground zero explosion and there’s no fire or smoke to prove us that explosion reached him, same thing applies in the destruction of the moon incident.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except Batman said it had the same mass as the real moon. Once again, it is you who failed to read the comic correctly.....

Blatant lie. It's pretty clear that you don't have Justice League of America 30. I will show you the scan and you will show me where it was stated by Batman that "it has the same mass as the real moon." Here's the scan:

Now, show me!

😑

Unless Endless Mike is going to reply, i see no reason to leave this open.

also, it is a fact that McDuffie (who wrote JLA 30) believed that our moon's mass was 81 billion tons, and intended the shadow moon to be the same size as the normal moon. That makes Batman wrong.

writer intention beats even on panel feats.

also, nij-ayias, the attitude isn't helping.

Originally posted by Raoul
Unless Endless Mike is going to reply, i see no reason to leave this open.

Fine with me, thanks. It's Endless Mike's idea to bring my reply here. I hope it's ok for you to bring my reply to the place where it started.

Originally posted by Raoul
also, it is a fact that McDuffie (who wrote JLA 30) believed that our moon's mass was 81 billion tons, and intended the shadow moon to be the same size as the normal moon. That makes Batman wrong.

Size has nothing to do with mass. Read the scan again, it was intended that the shadow moon to be the same mass(not size) as the normal moon, it was stated in the scan.

Originally posted by Raoul
writer intention beats even on panel feats.

In real world, you're correct but the writer is the one who creates the fictional world. It doesn't matter whether it's wrong or right in our world, but in fictional world yes.

Originally posted by Raoul
also, nij-ayias, the attitude isn't helping.

Mr. Moderator, I'm not a type of person who keeps bashing and bashing, it's just Endless Mike insults me first. Anyway, if that's what you think, I'm sorry. And my point here is that I'm not a liar from the start that I'm a comics collector and not a scans collector.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Size has nothing to do with mass. Read the scan again, it was intended that the shadow moon to be the same mass(not size) as the normal moon, it was stated in the scan.

my mistake. i meant mass, rather than size, which is too vague. On Mcduffie's own forum, he claimed that after doing the math, the mass of our actual moon was 81 billion tons. he used that figure to calculate the size of the shadow moon. which as we know, is incorrect.

In real world, you're correct but the writer is the one who creates the fictional world. It doesn't matter whether it's wrong or right in our world, but in fictional world yes.

if a writer says "this planet is the same size as earth" and then states an incorrect mathematical figure, then we go by it being the same size as earth, and he just made a mess of the math.

Mr. Moderator, I'm not a type of person who keeps bashing and bashing, it's just Endless Mike insults me first. Anyway, if that's what you think, I'm sorry. And my point here is that I'm not a liar from the start that I'm a comics collector and not a scans collector.

where did he insult you?

Originally posted by Raoul
my mistake. i meant mass, rather than size, which is too vague. On Mcduffie's own forum, he claimed that after doing the math, the mass of our actual moon was 81 billion tons. he used that figure to calculate the size of the shadow moon. which as we know, is incorrect.

I just read it in DC comics message board but, what's the evidence that it's really Mcduffie? And can you please show me that topic in Mcduffie's own forum?

Originally posted by Raoul
where did he insult you?

Back in the Revamped Superman Respect Thread. He said that I'm just making excuses but it was him who made excuses like using real life psychology, real life science, real life analysis, and other off topic DC comics. He even called me a liar that he couldn't believe that I collect comics. Then, he keeps on telling me that he has the Justice League of America 30 but in reality, he don't. Lastly, he also insults me about reading the comics correctly.

1.) In my scan, I proved him that Neron or Starbreaker didn't increase Shadow Thief's power but the stolen teleportation system.

2.) In my scan, I proved him that Batman didn't say it has the same mass as the real moon but 81 billion tons.

I just read it in DC comics message board but, what's the evidence that it's really Mcduffie? And can you please show me that topic in Mcduffie's own forum?

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?messageID=2005194054&#2005194054

It's mcduffie. All the writers and artists on the DC board, newsarama and comicbookresources are legit.

This argument is just the left over agression from the old Superman versus Goku thread. It's pointless.

No one cares about supes getting knocked out 😬 Especially me...i don't care if a chipmunk knocks him out, not gonna be going around being all like 'OMGZ SUPES GOT KO'ED BY A CHIPMUNK!!!!!11!!'

Originally posted by nij-ayias
I just read it in DC comics message board but, what's the evidence that it's really Mcduffie? And can you please show me that topic in Mcduffie's own forum?

i posted the link in the respect thread, i think.

Back in the Revamped Superman Respect Thread. He said that I'm just making excuses but it was him who made excuses like using real life psychology, real life science, real life analysis, and other off topic DC comics. He even called me a liar that he couldn't believe that I collect comics. Then, he keeps on telling me that he has the Justice League of America 30 but in reality, he don't. Lastly, he also insults me about reading the comics correctly.

how do you know he doesn't have JLA 30?

2.) In my scan, I proved him that Batman didn't say it has the same mass as the real moon but 81 billion tons.

batman doesn't say it, someone else does. they do say that it's supposed to have the same mass as the real moon. mcduffie on his own site said he once tried to calculate the mass of our moon and got 81 billion tons. he got the math wrong, but through the entire thread (the link is in the superman respect thread, if i get a chance i'll find it) he says that his intent was for it to be the same mass as our moon.

and this being apart from the fact that when it comes to superman, mcduffie is one of the least qualified to even begin to talk about what superman can and can't do. his superman in jla has been piss poor for around what, 16 (i think burnett did a couple) issues? he seems to have no idea how to write superman in a team book.

superman has higher feats than being knocked out by a moon travelling at over seven million kph.

Are people forgetting that superman had near infinite mass when he collided into the moon?the fact that he was messed up more by the moon feat then getting hit by supernovas or being in or near exploding planets should make it common sense that it wasn't simply moon busting.

o snap

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Are people forgetting that superman had near infinite mass when he collided into the moon?the fact that he was messed up more by the moon feat then getting hit by supernovas or being in or near exploding planets should make it common sense that it wasn't simply moon busting.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
You're grasping for straws here. All writers on the Dc message board have pro written under their name.

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?messageID=2005194054&#2005194054

It's mcduffie. All the writers and artists on the DC board, newsarama and comicbookresources are legit.

OK thanks.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
This argument is just the left over agression from the old Superman versus Goku thread. It's pointless.

Excuse me?

Originally posted by Raoul

how do you know he doesn't have JLA 30?

In Justice League of America 30, Endless Mike claimed that Shadow Thief's power was amplified by Starbreaker or Neron. But it was not, read the scan that I post, Mr. Moderator. Starbreaker or Neron has nothing to do with Shadow Thief's power in Justice League of America 30. In Justice League of America 30, Shadow Thief's power source was the Shadow Cabinet's shadowslide of teleportation system and not Neron or Starbreaker.

Originally posted by Raoul
batman doesn't say it, someone else does. they do say that it's supposed to have the same mass as the real moon. mcduffie on his own site said he once tried to calculate the mass of our moon and got 81 billion tons. he got the math wrong, but through the entire thread (the link is in the superman respect thread, if i get a chance i'll find it) he says that his intent was for it to be the same mass as our moon.

OK thanks you win in DC moon's mass argument, I know when to concede unlike Endless Mike. And that's the reply I wanna receive unlike his false science, psychology and off topic DC argument, anyway thanks again.

Originally posted by Raoul
and this being apart from the fact that when it comes to superman, mcduffie is one of the least qualified to even begin to talk about what superman can and can't do. his superman in jla has been piss poor for around what, 16 (i think burnett did a couple) issues? he seems to have no idea how to write superman in a team book.

Comics is a comics and besides this kind of argument should belong to the writers and DC company.

Originally posted by Raoul
superman has higher feats than being knocked out by a moon travelling at over seven million kph.

The issue here is the planet buster/supernova or anything about explosions that knocked him out unconscious and not the black holes. There are no issues where Modern-Superman took a point blank range or ground zero planet busting WITHOUT GETTING KNOCKED OUT UNCONSCIOUS.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Are people forgetting that superman had near infinite mass when he collided into the moon?the fact that he was messed up more by the moon feat then getting hit by supernovas or being in or near exploding planets should make it common sense that it wasn't simply moon busting.

Mister, Superman's supernova feat knock him out unconscious, that's my point here. And Superman's 50x Supernova didn't even touch his skin because he escaped it. Being NEAR exploding planet pluto is nowhere the point blank range Earth's moon mass explosion.

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I was under the weather for a few days. Anyway:

Originally posted by nij-ayias
[B]The continuation:My point is nobody suggest not even Superman, Hardware and Icon that Batman is wrong.

They didn't exactly have time to argue about it, the earth was about to be destroyed.

Characters in fiction is just fiction created by writers and we don't need to use psychology or whatever kind of real life solution or analysis to solve this kind of problem. Their writers what matters most in the end, even if they commit a mistake in real life applications or science.

We do if we want to analyze it objectively. Your idea works if you're talking about a literary analysis, i.e. "was this a good story?", "Is Superman a good character?" and other subjective things like that.

But when you're talking about things like "how much force does it take to knock out Superman" then, by, definition, you are dealing with scientific measurements, and things have to be analyzed scientifically. Otherwise you can make up any excuses you want to say anything.

My point is nobody suggest not even Superman, Hardware and Icon that Batman is wrong.

Because, as I said, the earth was about to be destroyed. Kind of a waste of time to argue about it. 🙄

About the moon's mass, pulverizing an 81 billion tons moon is the reason why Supes got knocked out and not the mass alone.

As in KE, but it wasn't 81 billion tons, because the moon could not possibly be that small/gaseous if it was.

Blatant lie. You don't have Justice League of America 30.

Of course he wasn't, but Shadow Thief was. And Shadow Thief got his powers from Neron.

Neron has nothing to do in Justice League of America 30. Show me where it was stated in Justice League of America 30 that magic was the power source of the shadow moon.

It was made from Shadow Thief's power.

He eventually sold his soul to Neron for more power. Neron gave him a more powerful shadow suit with the ability to turn other people and objects into shadows.

Like what he did to the moon. Sure, he was receiving an extra power boost from Starbreaker, but he was still using the ability that Neron gave him. Which is magic.

If you read a Doctor Strange comic and you see him fire a random blast, do you not believe it's magic unless it is explicitly stated? Doctor Strange's powers are magic, just like Neron's are, and Neron gave Shadow Thief his powers, therefore it is magic. QED.

Blatant lie. It's the second time you proved me that you don't have Justice League of America 30. Using wikipedia is not a valid evidence and it wasn't Starbreaker that amped Shadow Thief's power but the Shadow Cabinet's shadowslide of teleportation system. I keep on telling you before that Icon knew it, if you have the comics you would recognize my clue that Shadow Thief's power source was the teleportation system. I will show you the scan which proves that Starbreaker or Neron didn't amp Shadow Thief's power and you don't have Justice League of America 30.

I don't have it with me, but I did read it. Shadow Thief made a deal with Starbreaker. The extra power he got merely served to amplify his existing powers, which were granted by Neron. Which were magic.

If you don't like Wikipedia, then look here:

http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=shadowthief

Sands has used the device - later enhanced by Neron

Neron. Magic. Got it?

Blatant lie. 50x Supernova didn't hit him but the electromagnetic shockwave.

J. Kent's statement:

"Electro-magnetic shockwave came rushing towards Clark at the speed of light."

Which is part of the explosion. He was clearly hit by it, and this was after he had been drenched in red sun radiation that had severely weakened him. Obviously he didn't take the whole thing, but he sure as hell took a lot of it, and even an average supernova is 12 orders of magnitude greater then the energy required to destroy the earth.

At least I'm not using wikipedia as comics evidence. Like what I said before, name me the issue where the feats happened and I will show it here.

What's wrong with wikipedia? As long as you check the edit history to see if no one vandalized it then it's perfectly fine most of the time, and I even provided a corroborating source.

Blatant lie. He was knocked in the scan, please take a look at the scan. It was dark, then it shows Superman's face waking up.

I don't see any proof he was knocked out. You're simply interpreting things from the art. Kind of ironic since you kept asking for evidence to be directly stated earlier.....

Oh, and stop copying my phrases. I say "blatant lie", make up your own way to tell me you think I'm lying.

My point here is that SFP-Darkseid was driven off by a planet buster.

Um, no, he wasn't. He teleported away after fighting the "Source" because it was all part of his plan to reincarnate for Final Crisis.

Being carried away by the explosion is not a ground zero explosion. Do you know what ground zero explosion means?

Means you were right next to it when it exploded. But I don't see why you couldn't be right next to it and blasted away by the explosion.

Blatant lie. Here’s another example of an explosion that triggered a time warp, read Superman's statement below:

Scan's not showing up, champ.

Look, the last thing Superman remembers is trying to stop the bomb from detonating and the next thing he knows he’s there. There’s no memory of him inside the explosion or ground zero explosion and there’s no fire or smoke to prove us that explosion reached him, same thing applies in the destruction of the moon incident.

He was right inside of it, of course it reached him, since it needed to happen to power the time warp.

Blatant lie. It's pretty clear that you don't have Justice League of America 30. I will show you the scan and you will show me where it was stated by Batman that "it has the same mass as the real moon." Here's the scan:

*snip*

Now, show me! [/B]

Right in the fourth panel. 🤨

Are you blind?

Size has nothing to do with mass. Read the scan again, it was intended that the shadow moon to be the same mass(not size) as the normal moon, it was stated in the scan.

Mass = volume (size) x density. Of course size is related to mass.

And about it being the same mass as the real moon, I just said that and in your last post you denied it. Make up your mind about what you are trying to say.

Back in the Revamped Superman Respect Thread. He said that I'm just making excuses

Telling people they are making excuses counts as an insult now?

but it was him who made excuses like using real life psychology, real life science, real life analysis, and other off topic DC comics.

Which you have to do if you want to make an objective analysis. Is it so wrong to assume human characters will behave like actual human beings? Not to mention you are a huge hypocrite since if you denied using any type of real science you would realize that any debate like this was pointless since "81 billion tons" could mean anything from "2 ounces" to "a trillion times the mass of the real universe". Tons as a unit of mass is defined by real life science, so if you are attempting to use it you have to use real science.

He even called me a liar that he couldn't believe that I collect comics.

No, I merely said that I doubted you had every Superman comic ever published, which was what you claimed. If you had said you had every Thanos comic, or even every Silver Surfer comic, that would be somewhat believable, but Superman has probably been in more comics than any other character and has been around for over 70 years, claiming you have every Superman comic ever made stretches credibility.

Then, he keeps on telling me that he has the Justice League of America 30 but in reality, he don't.

Stop strawmanning me. I never said I had it, merely that I had read it (which I did).

Lastly, he also insults me about reading the comics correctly.

You did that first, you kept saying that I didn't read the comic when I did, so I simply pointed out some obvious mistakes you made and naturally concluded that you had not read the comics correctly.

1.) In my scan, I proved him that Neron or Starbreaker didn't increase Shadow Thief's power but the stolen teleportation system.

No you didn't. The point was that Shadow Thief had his powers amped by Neron and still had that, just because he got an additional powerup doesn't mean the magical nature of Neron's granted power somehow disappeared.

2.) In my scan, I proved him that Batman didn't say it has the same mass as the real moon but 81 billion tons.

Yeah, Batman didn't say it. Someone else did - I misremembered since I read the comic once several weeks ago. Does that really change anything? It still says it has the same mass as the real moon, which was my point.

Continued due to character limit:

In Justice League of America 30, Endless Mike claimed that Shadow Thief's power was amplified by Starbreaker or Neron

Again, wrong. I said that Neron had amped his power in the past (not that issue) and that power still remained, thus the nature of his power, even though it was amped again, was still magical. I never stated Neron was in JLA#30

If you read a Silver Surfer comic, and Galactus is never mentioned or shown anywhere in it, and Surfer performs a feat, and I say Surfer did that feat with the Power Cosmic he got from Galactus, would you call me a liar because Galactus wasn't in that comic? It's part of his origin/character history.

OK thanks you win in DC moon's mass argument, I know when to concede unlike Endless Mike.

That's a laugh. I concede when I am wrong. For example, how I misremembered Batman saying it was the same mass as the moon when it was really someone else who said it. Whereas you simply ignore most of my arguments or just go off on irrelevant tangents.

The issue here is the planet buster/supernova or anything about explosions that knocked him out unconscious and not the black holes. There are no issues where Modern-Superman took a point blank range or ground zero planet busting WITHOUT GETTING KNOCKED OUT UNCONSCIOUS.

OWAW
Auctioneer's bomb
Sun-Eater
Mageddon Warhead
DOTNG
Punches from SBP
GL blasts
Void Hound
Flying through Rao
Asteroid with enough KE to destroy earth
etc.

Ignoring them won't make them go away

Mister, Superman's supernova feat knock him out unconscious

Not the Sun-Eater, and he was severely weakened then.

And Superman's 50x Supernova didn't even touch his skin because he escaped it

Now this is a complete lie. He was flying away but he was too weak to escape the blast, it was enveloping him. He got away before the main blast hit him but he still took a lot of it. Stop downplaying the feats.

If I remember correctly, Superman was only avoiding the following entropic energy after he got hit with the actual Supernova blast.

Originally posted by Avlon
If I remember correctly, Superman was only avoiding the following entropic energy after he got hit with the actual Supernova blast.

👆

Originally posted by Endless Mike

I don't have it with me, but I did read it. Shadow Thief made a deal with Starbreaker. The extra power he got merely served to amplify his existing powers, which were granted by Neron. Which were magic.

If you don't like Wikipedia, then look here:

http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=shadowthief

Neron amplified Shadow Thief's power in Underworld Unleased but not in Justice League of America 30.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No you didn't. The point was that Shadow Thief had his powers amped by Neron and still had that, just because he got an additional powerup doesn't mean the magical nature of Neron's granted power somehow disappeared.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Continued due to character limit:

Again, wrong. I said that Neron had amped his power in the past (not that issue) and that power still remained, thus the nature of his power, even though it was amped again, was still magical. I never stated Neron was in JLA#30.

Wrong, first of all Shadow Thief uses a Dimensiometer device which enables its wearer to shift his body into a two-dimensional, intangible "shadow" state. Are you telling me that Shadow Thief used two dimensiometer in Justice League of America 30? Where? Atleast show some scans.
Read Underworld Unleashed, when Neron was defeated it turned back - breaking that one deal(amplified in power) also broke all his others, including Shadow Thief’s costume that gives him power. I suggests you to read it before reading any incomplete internet stuffs. You act like such an expert but you get things wrong. Without internet sutffs, you wouldn't know anything about Shadow Thief. Shadow Thief's power in Justice League of America 30 is not magic.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Which is part of the explosion. He was clearly hit by it, and this was after he had been drenched in red sun radiation that had severely weakened him. Obviously he didn't take the whole thing, but he sure as hell took a lot of it, and even an average supernova is 12 orders of magnitude greater then the energy required to destroy the earth.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Sun-Eater

No, it’s not a ground zero explosion. The electromagnetic shockwave that came rushing towards Superman cannot pulverize Planet Earth or Earth’s moon judging from the size of its expanding ball of radiation. The electromagnetic shockwave that hits Superman is nowhere as big as metropolis. If the electromagnetic shockwave that came rushing at lightspeed can destroy the Planet Earth, it will also destroy J. Kent’s spaceship. Electromagnetic shockwave is not pure explosions; my argument is about pure energy explosion than can pulverize the Planet Earth and not just a part of explosion like shockwave.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Now this is a complete lie. He was flying away but he was too weak to escape the blast, it was enveloping him. He got away before the main blast hit him but he still took a lot of it. Stop downplaying the feats.

I’m not downplaying the feats, its just you didn’t answer my question directly. Is that ground zero explosion?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I don't see any proof he was knocked out. You're simply interpreting things from the art. Kind of ironic since you kept asking for evidence to be directly stated earlier.....

Originally posted by Endless Mike
DOTNG

Are you telling me that waking up from explosion means nothing? So, what are your interpretations of waking up from the explosions?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Means you were right next to it when it exploded. But I don't see why you couldn't be right next to it and blasted away by the explosion.

He was right inside of it, of course it reached him, since it needed to happen to power the time warp.

Look, the last thing Superman remembers is trying to stop the bomb from detonating and the next thing he knows he’s there. There’s no memory of him inside the explosion or ground zero explosion and there’s no fire or smoke to prove us that explosion reached him, same thing applies in the destruction of the moon incident.

If you read that issue, you would realize the difference when the explosion hits him or not.
No, Superman was inside but has no memory of receiving a moon buster and atomic bomb. You're no longer arguing with me anymore but with Superman or its writer. I'll repeat, Superman has no memory of receiving an atomic bomb explosion or anything, similar to moon's destruction.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, I merely said that I doubted you had every Superman comic ever published, which was what you claimed. If you had said you had every Thanos comic, or even every Silver Surfer comic, that would be somewhat believable, but Superman has probably been in more comics than any other character and has been around for over 70 years, claiming you have every Superman comic ever made stretches credibility.

Like I said before, name me any Superman issue and I can show the feats here.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Right in the fourth panel. 🤨

Are you blind?

Yeah, Batman didn't say it. Someone else did - I misremembered since I read the comic once several weeks ago. Does that really change anything? It still says it has the same mass as the real moon, which was my point.

So who's the liar now? You even insulted me by calling me blind. Like I said to Mr. Moderator, I know when to concede and accept mistakes unlike you.
You act like such an expert but you get things wrong.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
OWAW

It’s not a ground zero planet busting. Besides, pulverizing Pluto isn’t as powerful as pulvering the Earth’s moon or Planet Earth. Superman is faster than light in space and its just the small Planet Pluto, surely he escaped that explosion. Its either to accept Superman is lightspeed or not.
Look at the scan, where did you see Superman? Inside the explosion or outside the explosion?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Auctioneer's bomb

It’s not a bomb but a robot. Explosion that could slice the Planet Earth in half isn’t as powerful as the explosion that can pulverize the Earth’s moon or Planet Earth.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Mageddon Warhead

Overexaggeration of feats and the warhead didn’t explode. Superman stated that he can absorb anti-sunlight similar to yellow sunlight.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Punches from SBP

Without flying, SBP/SMP cannot destroy a Planet Earth in a single punch. Besides, my argument here is the energy blast/explosion that can pulverize the planet Earth.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
GL blasts

No average Green Lantern can pulverize a landmass equivalent to all Pennsylvania or Earth’s moon. GL John Stewart with the power of the Void Hound obliterated a landmass equivalent to all of Pennsylvania. With the power of the Void Hound, J. Stewart asking what else he could do and its potential scares him. J. Stewart is beyond an average Green Lantern, meaning no average GL is beyond VoidHound-John Stewart. No average Green Lantern can obliterate a landmass equivalent to all Pennsylvania or Earth’s moon.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Void Hound

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Flying through Rao

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Asteroid with enough KE to destroy earth

My point isn’t about all type of energy but explosion alone.

I said before if you are going to post scans just link to them or use thumbnails, don't use huge scans that take up the whole page, it's annoying. I get the feeling you're doing it deliberately just to piss me off now.

Neron amplified Shadow Thief's power in Underworld Unleased but not in Justice League of America 30.

AFAIK the powerup didn't wear off, and he used one of the extra powers Neron gave him (making shadow of other objects, in this case the moon)

Wrong, first of all Shadow Thief uses a Dimensiometer device which enables its wearer to shift his body into a two-dimensional, intangible "shadow" state. Are you telling me that Shadow Thief used two dimensiometer in Justice League of America 30? Where? Atleast show some scans.

No, I'm stating that Shadow Thief used his Neron-granted powers amplified by a deal with Starbreaker via the teleportation array

Read Underworld Unleashed, when Neron was defeated it turned back - breaking that one deal(amplified in power) also broke all his others, including Shadow Thief’s costume that gives him power. I suggests you to read it before reading any incomplete internet stuffs. You act like such an expert but you get things wrong. Without internet sutffs, you wouldn't know anything about Shadow Thief. Shadow Thief's power in Justice League of America 30 is not magic.

Then why was he able to create a shadow of the moon?

No, it’s not a ground zero explosion. The electromagnetic shockwave that came rushing towards Superman cannot pulverize Planet Earth or Earth’s moon judging from the size of its expanding ball of radiation.

That's retarded. You can't tell the size by looking at it - it's a perspective shot. And how can you tell by the size anyway? Gladiator's fists pulverized a planet and they were smaller than that shockwave.

In fact it was 50 times larger than a supernova that created a large nebula.

he electromagnetic shockwave that hits Superman is nowhere as big as metropolis. If the electromagnetic shockwave that came rushing at lightspeed can destroy the Planet Earth, it will also destroy J. Kent’s spaceship.

Except said spaceship is faster than the speed of light and outran it. Duh. 🙄

Also please show the scaling you used to determine the size of that explosion. Keep in mind a shockwave is omnidirectional so it would expand to larger than the size of the sun at that point, and eventually many light-years in diameter.

Electromagnetic shockwave is not pure explosions; my argument is about pure energy explosion than can pulverize the Planet Earth and not just a part of explosion like shockwave.

A shockwave is the damaging part of an explosion. Learn basic physics please. It would have the power to annihilate the earth more than a trillion times over. Do you know what a supernova is capable of and how much energy it releases? You're just being willfully ignorant now.

I’m not downplaying the feats, its just you didn’t answer my question directly. Is that ground zero explosion?

*snip*

Not directly, but it doesn't matter since it would still be able to destroy the earth at several AU and Superman was clearly closer than that (seeing as he had to fly to the center of the thing to drop the entropy bomb).

Are you telling me that waking up from explosion means nothing? So, what are your interpretations of waking up from the explosions?

*snip*

He closed his eyes as it was about to hit him and opened them when it was over. I'd sure close my eyes if I was about to be hit by something like that. No proof he was knocked out.

Look, the last thing Superman remembers is trying to stop the bomb from detonating and the next thing he knows he’s there. There’s no memory of him inside the explosion or ground zero explosion and there’s no fire or smoke to prove us that explosion reached him, same thing applies in the destruction of the moon incident.

*snip*

If you read that issue, you would realize the difference when the explosion hits him or not.
No, Superman was inside but has no memory of receiving a moon buster and atomic bomb. You're no longer arguing with me anymore but with Superman or its writer. I'll repeat, Superman has no memory of receiving an atomic bomb explosion or anything, similar to moon's destruction.

So the explosion happened quickly, and the time travel/explosion combination messed with his memories a bit. I don't see your point. Many people tend to suppress traumatic memories.

Like I said before, name me any Superman issue and I can show the feats here.

So you are claiming you have every Superman comic ever made? Please answer yes or no to clarify this.

So who's the liar now? You even insulted me by calling me blind. Like I said to Mr. Moderator, I know when to concede and accept mistakes unlike you.
You act like such an expert but you get things wrong.

Does it matter? It still says the same thing, and leads to the same conclusion. You're the one who claimed it had less mass than the actual moon, which was wrong. And as for "acting like an expert" I'm not the one claiming I have every single Superman comic ever made.

It’s not a ground zero planet busting. Besides, pulverizing Pluto isn’t as powerful as pulvering the Earth’s moon or Planet Earth.

That is true, but it is still a planet (well, dwarf planet now), and that is what you asked for.

Superman is faster than light in space and its just the small Planet Pluto, surely he escaped that explosion

Except we can clearly see him getting hit by it.

Its either to accept Superman is lightspeed or not.
Look at the scan, where did you see Superman? Inside the explosion or outside the explosion?

*snip*

You can see him getting hit by the explosion in the first panel of the second page you posted. Furthermore, you're using a false dilemma fallacy. He tried to escape through the interior passages of the planet, going lightspeed inside the planet would be too dangerous (he would cause lots of damage and maybe not make it out in time). So he probably didn't go lightspeed until he actually reached the surface. Enough time was spent inside of it escaping for the explosion to hit him.

It’s not a bomb but a robot. Explosion that could slice the Planet Earth in half isn’t as powerful as the explosion that can pulverize the Earth’s moon or Planet Earth.

It was a bomb inside the robot - that's a pointless nitpick. Furthermore it's certainly close, since it was a planar shockwave when it hit him it would be like getting hit with a sword made of energy that could cleave the planet in half.

Overexaggeration of feats and the warhead didn’t explode. Superman stated that he can absorb anti-sunlight similar to yellow sunlight.

It could destroy half the galaxy, and he absorbed all of it into him, and anti-sunlight is the opposite of yellow sunlight, so it hurt him, the opposite of yellow sunlight which powers him up. It's more impressive than tanking the explosion because if it exploded most of it would go off in every direction, but he absorbed it all into himself.

Part 2:

Without flying, SBP/SMP cannot destroy a Planet Earth in a single punch. Besides, my argument here is the energy blast/explosion that can pulverize the planet Earth.

No it isn't, because then you wouldn't bring up him flying into the shadow moon, since that was just a physical punch and not an energy attack. Furthermore, SBP can move planets across the universe so fast that people don't even realize they're gone until after the fact, he can punch out of the phantom zone and speedforce, and rip open Monarch's armor that can easily tank planetbusters. If he is serious his punch is definitely a planetbuster+.

EDIT: Posted wrong scan, I'll try to find the right one

No average Green Lantern can pulverize a landmass equivalent to all Pennsylvania or Earth’s moon. GL John Stewart with the power of the Void Hound obliterated a landmass equivalent to all of Pennsylvania. With the power of the Void Hound, J. Stewart asking what else he could do and its potential scares him. J. Stewart is beyond an average Green Lantern, meaning no average GL is beyond VoidHound-John Stewart. No average Green Lantern can obliterate a landmass equivalent to all Pennsylvania or Earth’s moon.

Laughable, taking low - end feats as the maximum.

Here's two rookie lanterns talking casually about how they stitched a planet back together:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2899/glmineclearingandplanet.jpg

Here's Guy Gardner holding together a structure the size of a small solar system with a white dwarf star at the center (granted, he's struggling to do it, but it's way above planetary level):

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5430/guyholdingtogethermegas.jpg

Here's John, who you called a weak, average GL, nearly recreating an entire solar system:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5060/johnsolarsystem1.jpg

Here's Kyle rebuilding a device much, much larger than earth:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9228/kylerebuildsdevice1.jpg

I don't have the scan, but Kyle as a rookie casually destroyed Oa. Saying GLs are only countrybusters is ridiculous.

Void Hound cannot pulverize a Sun or Planet Earth in a single blast. Its forty-six squads of dronestrikers were considered the Void Hound's "fangs." The dronestriker attack craft would swarm an enemy starship or planet. The launchers can fire off tesseract bombs which violently folded everything in its detonation radius momentarily inside-out for over thousand mile spans ravaging mountain ranges and coastlines. The ten gravitic whirlpool batteries featured enough power to send tidal ripples across a planet's continents while the holocaust beam would rip across the face of continents, cutting trenches up to three miles wide. So, where is its power to pulverize the Sun or Planet Earth in single blast? I suggests you read the comics, the single blast Superman took from Void Hound cannot pulverize the Planet Pluto. Void Hound cannot pulverize the Earth in a single blast.

Void hound destroyed a sun:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1627/voidhound.jpg

Anything that can do that can surely destroy a planet much easier.

He flew through Rao faster than light, meaning its just a split second or less. Besides, it will take 280 days for the yellow sun to match the power of a blast that can pulverize the Planet Earth.

Only in the power it gives out from the surface, the power at the core is far greater. If the earth was teleported into the core of a star it would be gone almost instantly.

My point isn’t about all type of energy but explosion alone.

He punched the asteroid. It exploded. It was large enough and moving fast enough to destroy the earth. Therefore he had to deliver at least as much KE with his body to stop it.