Originally posted by SurturI think there's plenty of great current music, but honestly I listen to a lot of music.
You must hate most of the current music. A lot of it seems like shit.
If we're talking purely mainstream, there's still good stuff, even if not all of it is stuff I'd personally listen to alone. Carly Rae Jepson has great songcraft, as does Gaga. Bruno Mars, whilst not someone I particularly like at all, has a great knack for imitating older styles of music while keeping it sounding modern. There are plenty of great singers whose music I'm not partial to. Kanye is kind of a minor genius, but I think he often gets a bit too self-indulgent. Most EDM can **** off.
Originally posted by Bashar TegYeah, it is all about context. I usually take concern when someone posits an opinion as a fact. Like if the person who said MCR were that great had a brilliant argument for it, I'm all ears. But if their reason for why MCR are one of the "greatest" bands of the 2000s doesn't go past "I like them a lot" then that opinion, in my opinion, is shit.
there can be wrong opinions. growing up i had plenty of old blues snobs telling me that my favorite bands were not "real music". however if they just said "i think it sounds awful", that is just as valid an opinion as a positive review. all depends on the context.also the key word is "opinion" and all art is subjective.
Also I just don't trust people who don't like music they've only heard a few times. I used to hate electronic music and hip-hop but then I actually ****ing listened to it with an open mind and found out how diverse both styles of music are. I don't see why people wear their ignorance and stubbornness as badges of pride.
Originally posted by Scribble
Yeah, it is all about context. I usually take concern when someone posits an opinion as a fact. Like if the person who said MCR were that great had a brilliant argument for it, I'm all ears. But if their reason for why MCR are one of the "greatest" bands of the 2000s doesn't go past "I like them a lot" then that opinion, in my opinion, is shit.
i think to assert any art as "the best" is beyond silly, even if you're a musical history guru. tbh i say stuff like "van halen is the greatest rock band of all time", but i'm being facetious and certainly not going to get mad and throw down when someone disagrees. regardless of my knowledge of classic and contemporary rock, in the end i would just be attempting to prove that the art i like best is factually the best art.
Originally posted by Bashar TegOh yeah, "the best of all time" is a total fallacy for the most part. Saying something is "the greatest" in the context you said is fine though, because it's more just an expression of how much you like them. When I'm drunk it doesn't matter what music is on, if I like it then I'll probably end up claiming it's the greatest song of all time (especially if it's by Black Sabbath or "Gimme Shelter"😉, until the next song comes on, which will probably also be the greatest of all time, and so on
i think to assert any art as "the best" is beyond silly, even if you're a musical history guru. tbh i say stuff like "van halen is the greatest rock band of all time", but i'm being facetious and certainly not going to get mad and throw down when someone disagrees. regardless of my knowledge of classic and contemporary rock, in the end i would just be attempting to prove that the art i like best is factually the best art.
Originally posted by Scribble
Also I just don't trust people who don't like music they've only heard a few times. I used to hate electronic music and hip-hop but then I actually ****ing listened to it with an open mind and found out how diverse both styles of music are. I don't see why people wear their ignorance and stubbornness as badges of pride.
that's the problem with people appealing to their own authority in a music debate. many of these "it's not real music" claims i heard growing up were not just from talentless tonedeaf ignorant tools, but from skilled jazz and blues musicians and connoisseurs who felt that their mastery of their favorite genre somehow made their opinions on all music so informed as to be indisputable. the basic premise was always "none of this shit you listen to would be around if it wasn't for _____".
Often though I will argue that something is one of the greatest of its kinds, and generally I do that when I genuinely believe it through measuring its originality, technical achievements, influence on future music, etc., and often I'll be talking about something that isn't necessarily something I consider one of my personal favourites. I know my own tastes, and I don't let them get in the way of judging music on its own merits. If I had to choose The Ten Greatest Albums of All Time then chances are none of my personal top ten would be on there, instead I'd choose a selection of albums that took music forward, influenced countless artists, and had consistently great song or general music craft. Even then though I'd still happily admit that there are countless other albums that would belong in such a bizarre, fabled concept as a 'top ten albums of all time'.
Originally posted by Bashar TegComing back to a thing I said before, you do often find people who are incredibly technically proficient in music can have really blinkered musical opinions because they get stuck in what they know and hold it as gospel. I honestly find that to be the saddest thing, because they once had the ability to appreciate fascinating new music, and then completely switched off and let themselves get stuck in a tiny bunker full of the fascinating new music of yesteryear.
that's the problem with people appealing to their own authority in a music debate. many of these "it's not real music" claims i heard growing up were not just from talentless tonedeaf ignorant tools, but from skilled jazz and blues musicians and connoisseurs who felt that their mastery of their favorite genre somehow made their opinions on all music so informed as to be indisputable. the basic premise was always "none of this shit you listen to would be around if it wasn't for _____".
Actually I tell a lie, if I were choosing an attempt at a supposed "subjective" top ten albums of all time, Doolittle would still be on there. Damn, that's one hell of an album, and it changed the **** out of rock music. It's up there with the best Beatles albums easily.
But even that is ridiculously informed by my own perception of what "rock history" is and what "matters" the most.
The first VH album could easily take the same spot in terms of influence and consistently good songwriting, I just don't listen to them as much as the Pixies.
Originally posted by Scribble
Coming back to a thing I said before, you do often find people who are incredibly technically proficient in music can have really blinkered musical opinions because they get stuck in what they know and hold it as gospel. I honestly find that to be the saddest thing, because they once had the ability to appreciate fascinating new music, and then completely switched off and let themselves get stuck in a tiny bunker full of the fascinating new music of yesteryear.
the sad irony is that their favorite genre was probably also shit on by older hipsters at some point. i'm sure old blues artists were looked down on by elite jazz musicians. i can just see them snickering and saying "pffft that shit is so basic and easy". i can also visualize a 40 year flashback before that, some symphony orchestra members sitting in a club and mocking the jazz players on stage for churning out their drug-fuelled chaotic noise.
Originally posted by Bashar TegExactly, it's a really depressing cycle. People are basically all too happy to claim something "isn't music" purely because it's different and new.
the sad irony is that their favorite genre was probably also shit on by older hipsters at some point. i'm sure old blues artists were looked down on by elite jazz musicians. i can just see them snickering and saying "pffft that shit is so basic and easy". i can also visualize a 40 year flashback before that, some symphony orchestra members sitting in a club and mocking the jazz players on stage for churning out their drug-fuelled chaotic noise.