When there's a 2 vs 1 fight...
How come one would strike the solo guy and then after that the other would? Why don't they get at opposite sides of the guy and then attack at the same time in different areas? Unless if you have a double sided blade/two blades, you can only escape by dodging one/both of the attacks, which would be much harder.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
A duel doesn't start like a Mortal Kombat game, where the combatants magically appear. To get behind the solo guy, one actually has to get behind him. And if it's a duel where doing that is necessary, then that just emphasizes the difficulty in flanking such an opponent.
But they never even seem to attempt to flank the solo guy. And even without being on different sides, they could still attack different areas at the same time, like at the head and at the feet. A normal saber isn't long enough to block both and it's pretty hard to dodge it.
Originally posted by Eminence
Everyone tries it in the comics; the lone combatant is usually head and shoulders above those comprising the group, though, and therefore tends to come out on top.
I know, that's wierd. The solo guy wins 99% of the time.
But like in the Obi Wan and Anakin vs Dooku (ROTS) they attack Dooku at different intervals taking turns.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I know, that's wierd. The solo guy wins 99% of the time.But like in the Obi Wan and Anakin vs Dooku (ROTS) they attack Dooku at different intervals taking turns.
Limited space. Besides when you fight two powerful guys like Anakin and Obi it helps to have super battle droids and a surprise TK attack for the assist. 😉
Dooku wouldn't have kept up with two strong guys for long, he was wise to separate them quickly.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That's true, the throne room in the Invisible hand didn't leave much room for Anakin and Kenobi to maneuver. Plus it's not like Dooku's just going to let them get behind him.
They don't need to maneuver. Just strike up high/down low even in a frontal attack and Dooku would die much quicker.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallSoresu is defensive, such offensive strikes are better suited to Anakin. The Makashi prodigy will make excellent use of the form best suited for dueling to avoid getting hit twice. And then there's environment that Anakin and Kenobi have to watch out for as much as Dooku. Unlike them, he doesn't risk hitting or getting in the way of someone he doesn't want to.
They don't need to maneuver. Just strike up high/down low even in a frontal attack and Dooku would die much quicker.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Soresu is defensive, such offensive strikes are better suited to Anakin. The Makashi prodigy will make excellent use of the form best suited for dueling to avoid getting hit twice. And then there's environment that Anakin and Kenobi have to watch out for as much as Dooku. Unlike them, he doesn't risk hitting or getting in the way of someone he doesn't want to.
It's harder for Dooku when he can't block (since his saber can't block both attacks when they're far apart).
And what about Grevious? Vs. Obi Wan, why doesn't he strike w/all sabers in four corners of Obi Wan at once? What can Kenobi do about that? Dodge them all? That'll be much harder.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallYou're looking at these from a viewpoint of an swordsman in the real world. The Force offers not only telekinesis, mind tricks and lightning, it offers speed and advance precognition. That's why when we all say Anakin could only beat Dooku when he gave in to the Dark... Anakin's form with the saber didn't change, it was his speed and foresight that bumped up.
It's harder for Dooku when he can't block (since his saber can't block both attacks when they're far apart).And what about Grevious? Vs. Obi Wan, why doesn't he strike w/all sabers in four corners of Obi Wan at once? What can Kenobi do about that? Dodge them all? That'll be much harder.
As for Grievous, he pretty much is a real life swordsman, as far as superpowers go. The advantages he enjoys are robotic joints, limbs and strength, as well heightened senses. And four saber at the same time. And Sifo-Dyas' blood, but I don't know what that's all about.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You're looking at these from a viewpoint of an swordsman in the real world. The Force offers not only telekinesis, mind tricks and lightning, it offers speed and advance precognition. That's why when we all say Anakin could only beat Dooku when he gave in to the Dark... Anakin's form with the saber didn't change, it was his speed and foresight that bumped up.As for Grievous, he pretty much is a real life swordsman, as far as superpowers go. The advantages he enjoys are robotic joints, limbs and strength, as well heightened senses. And four saber at the same time. And Sifo-Dyas' blood, but I don't know what that's all about.
No matter how fast/precognition you have, you can't move block two sabers striking you at the exact (or almost exact) same time in different areas. If the duo could coordinate properly, then how do you block that?
So? Even I (if I had four arms and sabers) could attack in different spots at the same time. But Grevious just attack with two (in the same area so they're close together, meaning that you could block both at the same time) and then with the other two or something like that. CIS?
No. It is a refusal to open oneself (?) to counterattack.
Dooku:
0
\/
|
/\
0<----Attack
\/<----Attack
|<----Attack
/\<----Attack
If Dooku dodges or parries then he has free reign to counterattack (esp. if both attacks are launched by one dual wielder) on a basically open target. And precog, his reedickulus Force power/speed and total mastery of his saber form will[list=a][*]prevent that from happening
and [*]Counter it[/list] Do you think Jedi don't train to fight more than one person? (Hint: they do.)
How come one would strike the solo guy and then after that the other would? Why don't they get at opposite sides of the guy and then attack at the same time in different areas? Unless if you have a double sided blade/two blades, you can only escape by dodging one/both of the attacks, which would be much harder.
Actually, in both TPM and RotS, the Jedi end up flanking the Sith at one point or another. The difference is that both Sith managed to get out of the ugly situation before the hammering could commence. But a lot of lightsaber fighting is about predicting the next blow just as much as striking quickly; you'll notice that the Jedi duos always try to assist the attacks of their fellows as opposed to hitting quickly to overwhelm a defense. Part of this is common sense - trying to mesh two swinging lightsabers in a situation isn't easy. It's dangerous to all parties involved, and reckless hammering away could cause fatal mistakes.
It's very likely that the attacks we see are more the result of drills on complementing the abilities of one's peer than a concentrated attempt to overcome a singular opponent who has the advantage of swinging space and maneuverability. The Jedi work well side-by-side as though they've clearly practiced, but if their fighting styles differ, or don't stack well, they cannot hope to overcome an opponent through their efforts.
No matter how fast/precognition you have, you can't move block two sabers striking you at the exact (or almost exact) same time in different areas. If the duo could coordinate properly, then how do you block that?
But the entire point of defense is to make sure those openings never appear. When attacking a singular opponent, the idea is to box them in and wear them down, since they have to work twice as hard as their foes. However, a skilled defending swordsman knows the methods he's up against, and he works to make sure he's not in them.
Also, instead of wondering why the Jedi just don't stab quickly high and low and end it, the question should be "do the Jedi fighting styles really emphasize this kind of behavior"? Obi-Wan, in particular, is defensive-based, and his philosophy is about winning through superior defense. When he attacks, he's adapting his style to the polar opposite of what he's practiced for decades to master. While he can do it (And he certainly focused on it prior), it puts him in an uncomfortable position.
Anakin, for his part, is all about getting in the other person's face. When he fights side-by-side with Obi-Wan, he suffers from Obi-Wan's weaknesses as well. If the senior Jedi is unable to keep up the flurry, or his defensive-minded ways sacrifice offense for a mediocre defense, Anakin must pick up the slack. All while not slicing off Obi-Wan's limbs in the process, and not getting killed by a master swordsman who's style is strictly saber-to-saber and focuses on efficiency of motion just as much as style.
Anakin's in-your-face style does benefit him, as does his superior physical strength. Makashi isn't weak against strong blows (Which I detest the novelization for asserting; in the movie, Dooku holds off two Jedi with one arm, showing his strength is sufficient for one obviously), but when fueled by the Dark Side, Anakin grows even stronger. Yoda said it best - a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. This holds true for the Sith as well. The point that Dooku was committing the same kind of lack of respect for his opponent that Maul showed Obi-Wan contributed to his demise in a situation where he was still the superior in technical ability.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I know, that's wierd. The solo guy wins 99% of the time.But like in the Obi Wan and Anakin vs Dooku (ROTS) they attack Dooku at different intervals taking turns.
The 1% would be when Qui-Gon and Obi beat Maul and when Ani and Obi beat Dooku, right? Or is there some other duel I forgot?