Originally posted by k1Lla441
It doesnt matter how fast he is, i couldnt care less about that. The fact is that kratos reaction>>>> vergils speed, so the only way he can win this fight is to actually get close up... and by that time hes already dead.
Reflexes and movement speed are completely different, you can't compare them both.
Reflex-wise, I'd say they're about equal.
Vergil is much faster than Kratos, given his teleportation and all. This fight is spite really, the thread maker has nerfed Kratos firstly, and normal God of War 1 Kratos doesn't even have the powers of Pandora's box.
Originally posted by Gumachi
Kratos' reaction is shitty. He couldn't even react to a pathetic sickle, hell, not even a pillar. Vergil's speed could be his reaction(if you know what I mean). Either way, Vergil is too fast for Kratos. He would just teleport behind him, and chop his head off, or just knock him in the air with Beowulf, and cut him in half. And why does he have to get up close? Kratos won't be hitting him close, nor far away. And Kratos hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil, and don't say Zeus. Really. All Vergil has to do is run at Kratos and cut him in half.
@F.T: who would be the one in the other league, sir? your talking about kratos, right?
Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
I don't recall Charon's scythe ever KO'ing him, just that massive wave which by plot device was unavoidable, and aside from the fact that the pillar was thrown at least across Greece at the speed it was flying, Kratos was still busy with Pandora's Box. Not to mention if Zeus isn't to be said as an example (though it is as much a case since every God Kratos has fought has shown TK or Teleportation on at least one occasion, if not in their fights with Kratos, then prior to it), then Charon, in both cutscenes he appeared in, showed virtually instantaneous movement/teleportation, and survived being bisected by his own scythe until he was beaten to death by the Gauntlet of Zeus. The only things Kratos never reacted to were the things that caught him off guard and/or weakened.With or without Beowulf, Kratos by feats is still stronger. Hell, what little we've seen of the Cestus at least begins to already make it look comparable to what Beowulf ever did. Not to ramble off-topic, 'scuse me.
Also, despite how I'm posting this, I'm not necessarily saying Kratos wins, if only because of the restrictions in the topic (all-out, then he's in another league). But I will say that Kratos' biggest challenge comes from the fact that unlike Dante, Vergil is actually serious.
Play CoO, that's how Charon dumped his ass in Tartarus. He stopped pushing it: YouTube video Zeus hasn't shown TK, nor has Persephone. When Charon knocked out Kratos, he was right there(and he wasn't caught off guard). He could have been caught off guard, when Zeus throw his bolts at him. I'll try to find with Charon.
Probably, right. But with hand-to-hand skill, with or without Beowulf, Vergil probably wins(well, Vergil would be the same as Dante).
Originally posted by k1Lla441
Yes, will say zues, because he does have good reactions.
[color=royalblue]I said he hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil. I never said anything about Zeus' reactions. We hasn't seen anything of him(from what I remember).
Originally posted by Gumachi
Play CoO, that's how Charon dumped his ass in Tartarus. He stopped pushing it: YouTube video Zeus hasn't shown TK, nor has Persephone. When Charon knocked out Kratos, he was right there(and he wasn't caught off guard). He could have been caught off guard, when Zeus throw his bolts at him. I'll try to find with Charon.Probably, right. But with hand-to-hand skill, with or without Beowulf, Vergil probably wins(well, Vergil would be the same as Dante).
[color=royalblue]I said he hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil. I never said anything about Zeus' reactions. We hasn't seen anything of him(from what I remember).
Not for nothing, but you tell me to play CoO (which I have mind you--not for the past few months though), yet you forget Persephone's showing at least once of TK, when Kratos came charging at her and was knocked yards back by a single hand gesture (Ares' needless to say was of a far larger scale, yet still spoke for their capabilities), and as for teleporting she happens to do so the moment Kratos pulls his daughter off of him. Charon using the scythe to KO Kratos their first bout only occurs if the player happens to suck; what's UNAVOIDABLE in their first fight regardless of skill is Charon's energy attack.
And conceptually speaking, if anything is to be said for H2H, it's the Gauntlet of Zeus just proves Kratos can fight with one arm at least as well as the Sparda Bros. ever fought with both, and their legs.
And being caught off-guard is practically irrelevant to reaction speed, more of a testament to awareness. Dante at his peak was caught off-guard by Pansy Blue Yonder's dropkick, but I'm not calling him out on it for his reactions, because if he was AWARE of it, then he'd've probably reacted to it differently than just taking it. Yes, I know he was subsequently testing b*tchfist's abilities, but I'll leave you to decide my operative word there. For a hint, it ain't "b*tchfist".
I don't remember her doing this(not saying your lying or anything). Yeah, I know she teleports. Well, I think it happened in a cutscene. The part where he dumped him in Hades/Tartarus, was a gameplay cutscene.
All I see him do is punch, nonething more. How come he couldn't do any of this before he got the Gaunlet? Dante can fight with one arm, also.(and he did it in DMC3, well, you could say he was using one arm, which in a way, he was) Can he do better than what Dante did at the beginning of DMC3? Maybe he can fight only when he has the Gaunlet?
I guess you have a point. But I don't remember him being caught off-guard. Either way, Kratos didn't react fast enough.
Originally posted by Gumachi
I don't remember her doing this(not saying your lying or anything). Yeah, I know she teleports. Well, I think it happened in a cutscene. The part where he dumped him in Hades/Tartarus, was a gameplay cutscene.All I see him do is punch, nonething more. How come he couldn't do any of this before he got the Gaunlet? Dante can fight with one arm, also.(and he did it in DMC3, well, you could say he was using one arm, which in a way, he was) Can he do better than what Dante did at the beginning of DMC3? Maybe he can fight only when he has the Gaunlet?
I guess you have a point. But I don't remember him being caught off-guard. Either way, Kratos didn't react fast enough.
Please, that's Chains of Olympus, around ~9-10 years ago 😛. This is God of War Kratos 😛. His reactions will be much better now 313
Originally posted by Gumachi
I don't remember her doing this(not saying your lying or anything). Yeah, I know she teleports. Well, I think it happened in a cutscene. The part where he dumped him in Hades/Tartarus, was a gameplay cutscene.All I see him do is punch, nonething more. How come he couldn't do any of this before he got the Gaunlet? Dante can fight with one arm, also.(and he did it in DMC3, well, you could say he was using one arm, which in a way, he was) Can he do better than what Dante did at the beginning of DMC3? Maybe he can fight only when he has the Gaunlet?
I guess you have a point. But I don't remember him being caught off-guard. Either way, Kratos didn't react fast enough.
I managed to rewatch the scenes. For clarity, Charon dropping Kratos into Tartarus is the ONLY thing that goes on in that scene. No where out of gameplay was he KO'd but again, the only inevitable sequence of the fight prior to it was Charon's one-hit KO attack. Persephone TKs Kratos in the part where he says "I won't let the Gods take her from me again.", the moment he says that, he's knocked away several yards.
Exactly my point, being able to fight with just one LIMB as opposed to using full-on motion capture for in and out of ganeplay. I can just as easily ask why DMC bothers to involve the likes of Beowulf, Gilgamesh or the Devil Bringer in gameplay as fisticuffs. It's the same general consensus as with the Gauntlet of Zeus: uniqueness for the sake of gameplay, but plotwise being a boost or addition to their basic strength. Kratos has shown to be able to manhandle enemies two to three times his size with at least his bare hands, simply in methods that don't even require punching (i.e. splattering enemies to pieces by slamming them to the ground).
And it was when Dante was looming right over Kyrie and (IIRC) Credo that Nero drop-kicked him out of the way before the actual boss fight, and I doubt Nero was coming in at the same speed as the pillar that Ares tossed either. Again, neither had to do with good reactions because both Dante and Kratos were pre-occupied in their respective situations.
When we saw that "flash" it was a cutscene. So it was like a TK push?
Anyone can punch, lol. Because, it gives them more power(?), and it defiantly gives them brute-force. True. Isn't that gameplay, though? Hell, even Nero can pick up Berial and toss him around. If I remember correctly, Dante did fight with full-force.
I thought you meant when Jester drop-kicked him.
Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
I managed to rewatch the scenes. For clarity, Charon dropping Kratos into Tartarus is the ONLY thing that goes on in that scene. No where out of gameplay was he KO'd but again, the only inevitable sequence of the fight prior to it was Charon's one-hit KO attack. Persephone TKs Kratos in the part where he says "I won't let the Gods take her from me again.", the moment he says that, he's knocked away several yards.Exactly my point, being able to fight with just one LIMB as opposed to using full-on motion capture for in and out of ganeplay. I can just as easily ask why DMC bothers to involve the likes of Beowulf, Gilgamesh or the Devil Bringer in gameplay as fisticuffs. It's the same general consensus as with the Gauntlet of Zeus: uniqueness for the sake of gameplay, but plotwise being a boost or addition to their basic strength. Kratos has shown to be able to manhandle enemies two to three times his size with at least his bare hands, simply in methods that don't even require punching (i.e. splattering enemies to pieces by slamming them to the ground).
And it was when Dante was looming right over Kyrie and (IIRC) Credo that Nero drop-kicked him out of the way before the actual boss fight, and I doubt Nero was coming in at the same speed as the pillar that Ares tossed either. Again, neither had to do with good reactions because both Dante and Kratos were pre-occupied in their respective situations.
Dude, this is CoO Kratos you are talking about. The one in this fight is GoW Kratos, since there is a 10 year gap between the two, his abilities must be slightly better. Stop debating about CoO's feats.
& Vergil stomps a nerfed Kratos, Kratos would do better if he did have magic & Athena's blessing.
Meh, that's from a gameplay standpoint, similar to how DT doesn't last long in-game. Besides, Vergil would be hard pressed to counter against powerful intangible souls, and lightning bursts...the only way he'd avoid is either by running, or using DT to try and negate the stun effects. Kratos is untouchable during PR (seeing as how even cyclops can't hurt him during PR), so Vergil wouldn't do much. That's my two cents.
But, when it comes down to this particular fight, Vergil stomps.
DT lasts longer than ROTG. Canoncially/Technially, DT lasts however long Vergil wants it to. Actually, he takes little damage. If Vergil is in his DT, what makes you think he can't hurt Kratos? Hades' Souls isn't allowed. Vergil would just regenerate it all. Yamato would **** up Kratos(Since it's the incarnation of his spirit).
The fact that PR makes him invincible 😐
I already acknowledged that magic isn't allowed in this fight.
Seeing as how from a gameplay point DT isn't infinite whereas Boss Vergil can turn it on and off at will, similarly, you can't just say RoTG is finite. True, he does take little damage, but he still takes it. If Kratos is spamming PR, he'll still be taking damage. I'll stop with the magic debate. I never said he'd win the majority, I said he'd do better. 4/10 at most. 5/10 if he's really really lucky.
Reincarnation of his spirit?
And my bad, CoO is set 5 years before GoW.