Originally posted by EnyalusA little history review...
SS was amped by Loki in that issue, and Thor still took him down.
Furthermore: Surfer makes a correct tactical assessment and successfully acts on it: in their opening bout, where Surfer is attacking Thor "without let," he separates him from his hammer. Thor is on the ground, crawling...but what does Soarin' Norrin do? He hovers nearby and monologues. This is the pause which later allows Thor to (still, arguably) win. Imagine what might've occurred had the Surfer remained unrelenting in his attack.
Originally posted by Slaanesh🙂
where is all the Surfer fanboy when u need them 🙁
Anyway, Team 1 wins. If this were current Thor...I'd be inclined to give it to Team 2. Hard to say at this point.
Originally posted by Mindship
A little history review...
1. FF#50: Galactus removes the Surfer's "space-time powers" (first power reduction).
2. FF#72: the sonic shark "almost totally" drains the Surfer of his power (second and most profound power reduction).
3. FF#74: Surfer states (while blasting Galactus' Punisher) that his "...power is but a fraction of what it once had been..."
4. FF#76: Surfer states (while fighting the FF) that he "...no longer possesses the limitless powers of the cosmos..."
5. SS#2, Vol#1: Surfer states (while blasting a giant alien), "Once I might have felled you with a shrug! But, though I am less than before..." (This is just 2 issues before his first fight with Thor).
6. SS#4, Vol#1 (prior to fighting Thor): Surfer fights Loki to a draw. This implies that, at best, Loki could only have doubled Surfer's power in prepping him to fight Thor. This still puts Surfer way below his original power level.Furthermore: Surfer makes a correct tactical assessment and successfully acts on it: in their opening bout, where Surfer is attacking Thor "without let," he separates him from his hammer. Thor is on the ground, crawling...but what does Soarin' Norrin do? He hovers nearby and monologues. This is the pause which later allows Thor to (still, arguably) win. Imagine what might've occurred had the Surfer remained unrelenting in his attack.
🙂
For what it's worth though, I don't think current Surfer is all that more powerful than classic (ie, pre-sonic-shark) Surfer...it might be more correct to say current Surfer is less willing to hold back.Anyway, Team 1 wins. If this were current Thor...I'd be inclined to give it to Team 2. Hard to say at this point.
Originally posted by Mindship
A little history review...
1. FF#50: Galactus removes the Surfer's "space-time powers" (first power reduction).
2. FF#72: the sonic shark "almost totally" drains the Surfer of his power (second and most profound power reduction).
3. FF#74: Surfer states (while blasting Galactus' Punisher) that his "...power is but a fraction of what it once had been..."
4. FF#76: Surfer states (while fighting the FF) that he "...no longer possesses the limitless powers of the cosmos..."
5. SS#2, Vol#1: Surfer states (while blasting a giant alien), "Once I might have felled you with a shrug! But, though I am less than before..." (This is just 2 issues before his first fight with Thor).
6. SS#4, Vol#1 (prior to fighting Thor): Surfer fights Loki to a draw. This implies that, at best, Loki could only have doubled Surfer's power in prepping him to fight Thor. This still puts Surfer way below his original power level.Furthermore: Surfer makes a correct tactical assessment and successfully acts on it: in their opening bout, where Surfer is attacking Thor "without let," he separates him from his hammer. Thor is on the ground, crawling...but what does Soarin' Norrin do? He hovers nearby and monologues. This is the pause which later allows Thor to (still, arguably) win. Imagine what might've occurred had the Surfer remained unrelenting in his attack.
Ah. Thanks for the knowledge. I hadn't read the FF issues you listed. Not a big FF reader at all. That puts their fight in some context.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah. Thanks for the knowledge. I hadn't read the FF issues you listed. Not a big FF reader at all. That puts their fight in some context.
Don't worry about it, Mindship is trying to angle it as much as he possibly can.
Like, he forgot to mention how said incidents have been retconned. Or that Surfer's current power no way should conflict with his judgement, and ability to differ between someone's who's stronger or weaker than him. Ooooor that Surfer mentioned that it felt like he was not in control of himself.
The idea that Loki ONLY doubled Surfer's power is ridiculous, and it's impossible to know truly how much Galactus depowered him. Trying to cling on to the comment "a fraction" is pretty much like when Mr, as great as he is, tries to calculate the Beyonder's power out of the statement "Compared to my home, your multiverse is like a drop in the ocean" Hardly an accurate statement, now is it?
And due to his vastly lacking Thor knowledge, he missed the fact that Loki was able to restore Thor during the Seth war. After a long time of torture at Seth's troops and heaving beatings from Mjolnir, Loki was able to restore Thor to almost full power. This did not even take HALF of Loki's strength.
Originally posted by Kris BlazePlease provide specifics (as I did) regarding where it was retconned. As for comments like "ridiculous," we'll simply leave that for what it is: personal opinion.
Don't worry about it, Mindship is trying to angle it as much as he possibly can.Like, he forgot to mention how said incidents have been retconned. Or that Surfer's current power no way should conflict with his judgement, and ability to differ between someone's who's stronger or weaker than him. Ooooor that Surfer mentioned that it felt like he was not in control of himself.
The idea that Loki ONLY doubled Surfer's power is ridiculous, and it's impossible to know truly how much Galactus depowered him. Trying to cling on to the comment "a fraction" is pretty much like when Mr, as great as he is, tries to calculate the Beyonder's power out of the statement "Compared to my home, your multiverse is like a drop in the ocean" Hardly an accurate statement, now is it?
And due to his vastly lacking Thor knowledge, he missed the fact that Loki was able to restore Thor during the Seth war. After a long time of torture at Seth's troops and heaving beatings from Mjolnir, Loki was able to restore Thor to almost full power. This did not even take HALF of Loki's strength.
Originally posted by Mindship
Please provide specifics (as I did) regarding, eg, where it was retconned. As for comments like "ridiculous," we'll simply leave that for what it is: personal opinion.
- I'll do some digging and find the retcon. I might throw in that he broke the supposed "Restriction" in his battle against Durok.
- Okay, ridiculous was a poor choice of word. I'll put it like this. We have no idea how much Loki amplified him, but we know that it's within Loki's power to go far beyond a double powerup.