Monarch vs Classic Dr Strange

not without permission from eternity who is extremely unlikely to grant it. again--who has strange defeated, without prep or some plot driven power summoning--that is on monarch's level? no one i can think of . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
not without permission from eternity who is extremely unlikely to grant it. again--who has strange defeated, without prep or some plot driven power summoning--that is on monarch's level? no one i can think of . . .

Dormammu
Shuma-Gorath
Arioch
Mephisto
Satannish
Zom
Death

etc.

Not Strange

Not Monarch

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Dormammu
Shuma-Gorath
Arioch
Mephisto
Satannish
Zom
Death

etc.

I don't recall Strange winning those battles.

I recall Skyfather and longpig trying to make them come off as victories.

Monarch easily.

Strange plays it smart, destroys the armor and bfr Monarch while he explodes. Easy win.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Dormammu
Shuma-Gorath
Arioch
Mephisto
Satannish
Zom
Death

etc.

😂

never. EVER. not even ONE of them, in a straight, no-prep/no plot device battle. hell, even with prep AND doom on his side he barely survived a battle with mephisto.

again--strange has never defeated anyone on monarch's level in this kind of straight-up, non-prep situation. monarch is far faster, and even if strange can throw up a shield, monarch can pummel it until strange is exhausted (and the answer to 'doesn't strange have auto-shieldszz??!' is a definitive no . . .)

monarch wins everytime.

Strange does have auto-shields...kind of. Its like an invisible mystic barrier that's always on.

How else would he survive shots from Juggernaut, etc?

Wasn't Arioch and Death both without prep?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Strange does have auto-shields...kind of. Its like an invisible mystic barrier that's always on.

How else would he survive shots from Juggernaut, etc?

Wasn't Arioch and Death both without prep?

well, he never defeated death, so . . . 😕

as far as arioch--can't remember all the details but didn't he steal his magic power or something? i thought he used black magic in that battle. something very out of character for him. besides, the ability to steal magic wouldn't help him here. 😬

monarch takes this everytime imo.

oh--and he has shields on auto when the plot calls for it. they are not always on as nebula and skurge and others have both proven in the past.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, he never defeated death, so . . . 😕

Originally posted by leonidas
as far as arioch--can't remember all the details but didn't he steal his magic power or something? i thought he used black magic in that battle. something very out of character for him.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh--and he has shields on auto when the plot calls for it. they are not always on as nebula and skurge and others have both proven in the past.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Well not conclusively, no. But Death is far above Monarch...

well, of course death is above monarch, but since strange didn't defeat him . . .

He stole his powers and added them to his own after defeating him, IIRC. In order to take down Shuma. And he's a master of both kinds of magic, so he has them both at his disposal. 😛

after defeating him? hmm . . . i thought that was HOW he defeated him. anyway--monarch>arioch and strange isn't 'stealing' monarch's powers . . .

Meh. He's got them on more often than not. In addition to Juggy's punch, I just remembered him tanking Titannus' blow. I think when they aren't on, that's the PIS part. Not when they are on.

i'm not sure of that. i checked on this issue once because longpig used to make a huge deal of it. i've a nice collection of strange (which is why i said he's so friggin hard to judge at times). he has shown both sides (shields/no shields) to be true often enough. not sure which is pis. regardless--his shields would only last so long. strange once admitted that only ss could challenge thanos. if strange himself didn't feel he could take out thanos, he's not taking out monarch. certainly not without a lot of time to prepare for him.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, of course death is above monarch, but since strange didn't defeat him . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
after defeating him? hmm . . . i thought that was HOW he defeated him. anyway--monarch>arioch and strange isn't 'stealing' monarch's powers . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not sure of that. i checked on this issue once because longpig used to make a huge deal of it. i've a nice collection of strange (which is why i said he's so friggin hard to judge at times). he has shown both sides (shields/no shields) to be true often enough. not sure which is pis. regardless--his shields would only last so long. strange once admitted that only ss could challenge thanos. if strange himself didn't feel he could take out thanos, he's not taking out monarch. certainly not without a lot of time to prepare for him.

Pfft. Thanos would beat Monarch, too. Talk to Quan about that. He'll give you reasons.

Just give up and admit I'm right. uhuh

Originally posted by Enyalus

Its a HER. uhuh

well excusssseeee me . . . 😛

Arioch is not below Monarch...at all.

hard to tell, isn't it? did arioch appear somewhere aside from that strange tales arc? that was pretty ridiculous. he did seem quite powerful, but strange just . . . sucked arioch into himself to win that fight. 😕 strange was also left as a merged being though and again, no way he's sucking the very non-magical monarch into himself. 😄

Pfft. Thanos would beat Monarch, too. Talk to Quan about that. He'll give you reasons.

😂

met quan have you? he and i have buried the hatchet so i'll leave that be . . .

Just give up and admit I'm right. uhuh

heh. the hell fun is that? 😄

Originally posted by leonidas
well excusssseeee me . . . 😛

Don't let it happen again. uhuh

Originally posted by leonidas
hard to tell, isn't it? did arioch appear somewhere aside from that strange tales arc? that was pretty ridiculous. he did seem quite powerful, but strange just . . . sucked arioch into himself to win that fight. 😕 strange was also left as a merged being though and again, no way he's sucking the very non-magical monarch into himself. 😄

...I could post a scan of The Source being magical in nature, and since the Quantum Field is one aspect of The Source, and Monarch having control over the Quantum Field that making him by ABC logic fundamentally magic in nature...

But I won't. 😉

Originally posted by leonidas
heh. the hell fun is that? 😄

Strange gets hyped way to often like the Flash.

People choose to ignore all low showing claiming as PIS. It easy to make seriousness were Strange does win but on average he does not operate at that level at least without prep or situation power up.

Originally posted by kgkg
Strange gets hyped way to often like the Flash.

People choose to ignore all low showing claiming as PIS. It easy to make seriousness were Strange does win but on average he does not operate at that level at least without prep or situation power up.

Ditto for Strange, if he's got the showings to do so.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I like the comparison to the Flash. Because the rules explicitly point out that although Flash doesn't run around blitz one-shotting people at light speed regularly, he has before and so its a viable tactic on the forum.

Ditto for Strange, if he's got the showings to do so.

I used to love doing that but it's hard calming Flash will solo a team when he has problem with the likes of Grodd.

I need we need a balance 🙂

Originally posted by kgkg
I need we need a balance 🙂

Originally posted by Enyalus
I agree. That's why sometimes I use Full Capacity rules when saying someone wins, and sometimes I don't.

Ya anyway Full Capacity is ***** for inconsistent characters like Flash and Dr.Strange etc

So how do we handle opposite facts? like time were character have failed to do certain tasks? Like speed limits , magic limits etc

for example using the Full Capacity rule Strange would almost never lose I believe there was a time were he died and came back in astral form etc which will mean almost impossible to defeat 😉 Also his auto shield which are as fast as light etc, time stoping powers etc

So anytime he fails about 90% of his comic book appearance is PIS if we go that route.

Imo Full Capacity interferes severely with comic book appearance for most characters than the debates because battle of the "best feats" while ignoring the low ones.

Don't know why but this reminds of Surfer vs Strange debate between Longpig and I.