Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZIf we take the statements made about Manhattan being superior to Mxy at face value(which I do), then yeah, he'd be above just about everyone this side of TOAA.
I imagine you”re not including TOAA, PRB, PR MM/Current MM with Beyonders absorbed?
That said, I was moreso referring to current Marvel.
Originally posted by Galan007
If we take the statements made about Manhattan being superior to Mxy at face value(which I do), then yeah, he'd be above just about everyone this side of TOAA.That said, I was moreso referring to current Marvel.
If we”re scaling Manhattan to Mxy”s absolute highest feat (I.e. WF), then couldn”t the same logic be used to scale Marvel characters off of the UN”s absolute highest feat of instantly destroying and recreating the Multiverse?
For example, Current MM (Beyonders absorbed) >>> Living Tribunal >> complete IG >> incomplete IG > UN (instantly destroying and recreating the Marvel Multiverse)?
Originally posted by Galan007Yup, he came from outside... only something Meta can be greater than him. I still hated the way DC brought him mainstream, but it is what it is.
If we take the statements made about Manhattan being superior to Mxy at face value(which I do), then yeah, he'd be above just about everyone this side of TOAA.That said, I was moreso referring to current Marvel.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZWasn't current Owen beaten by Griever, who feared the power of Franklin... or has that been retconned? Haven't really been keeping up.
If we”re scaling Manhattan to Mxy”s absolute highest feat (I.e. WF), then couldn”t the same logic be used to scale Marvel characters off of the UN”s absolute highest feat of instantly destroying and recreating the Multiverse?For example, Current MM (Beyonders absorbed) >>> Living Tribunal >> complete IG >> incomplete IG > UN (instantly destroying and recreating the Marvel Multiverse)?
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Manhattan is pretty explicitly a peer of Perpetua. So probably below Lucifer, possibly above Empty Hand? Hard to say where EH stands relative to Perpetua.
EH stomped darkseid
the same darkseid that destroyed the quintessence with ease
I don't see how empty hand is inferior to perpetua in any way.
EH destroyed a multiverse off panel the first time he was introduced at multiversity
he was represented as the reader, though this morrison interpretation is not being used currently
Originally posted by Galan007😠
Wasn't current Owen beaten by Griever, who feared the power of Franklin... or has that been retconned? Haven't really been keeping up.
Kind of confused by your answer here.
I was simply asking that if you”re going to scale Manhattan above WF Mxy’s feats because he has statements putting him above Mxy, can”t similar scaling be used for the Marvel top tiers that (imo) measures up to that? Bringing up a low showing doesn”t really answer this at all, because I could just as easily bring up how Perpetua with almost all of her powers returned had to recharge her power to destroy a single universe (Perpetua being a peer of Manhattan). Hell, Mxy in the Justice League (2018) run couldn’t erase the mainstream Multiverse with a snap when he was working with World Forger (when Mxy was supposed to “un-imagine” the Multiverse so that World Forger could replace it with his Multiverse). Low showings really have nothing to do with the question I”m asking, otherwise similar concerns could be raised based on a single low showing from Perpetua or Mxy. The very fact that you think the statement allows Manhattan to scale above WF Mxy”s best feats despite neither he nor Perpetua showing such capability indicates the same would go for marvel characters who scale above such feats despite never showing the capability explicitl/having low showings.
Furthermore, I don”t think the Griever feat is a low showing to begin with. It”s explicitly noted that the Griever specializes in killing large-scale cosmic entities, and becomes progressively more inept when it comes to handling the “smaller” beings, such as the Fantastic Four, on the order that Griever had an easier time handling Owen than she did the Fantastic Four. This obviously isn”t something that can be scaled to lowball Owen.
FWIW: While we”re discussing statements, Sue Richards stated that Griever is “the most powerful threat our Multiverse has ever faced”, which would at least include The First Firmament/Logos, and could potentially include every villain in Marvel History.
Also, note that I specified “Current MM (Beyonders Absorbed)”, not MM after giving much of his power to rebirth the Multiverse. MM with Beyonders absorbed is infinitely more powerful than God Emperor Doom, who can punt the IG while enslaving Multi-Eternity simultaneously. Basically, I”m not sure why Manhattan can scale above WF Mxy, but guys like Peak MM/LT can”t scale (vastly) above the UN instantly erasing and recreating the Marvel Multiverse.
@Supreme
Can't quote you, so will just respond to a few of your points...
1.) The Mxy featured in Snyder's JL run was explicitly weakened as a result of the Source Wall breaking. Therefore his showings are not indicative of what a "full power" Mxy can accomplish.
2.) Regardless of the power Owen was channeling at his peak, I'm pretty sure it was reiterated that he couldn't actually use that power to any noteworthy degree. He was essentially *just* a battery.
3.) Greiver, as far as I can recall, explicitly feared Franklin's power, to the point where she didn't dare emerge until his power had been massively gimped -- and Franklin is pretty solidly capped at universal. So regardless of of any statements made about Griever's function as an abstract entity, the fact that she fears universal levels of power is telling.
4.) You can use low showings to diminish Manhattan's accolades. That's fine. Just saying that in my opinion, if you placed Manhattan into current Marvel, I believe he would be magnitudes above basically everyone. /shrug