Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not bothering with Kandy, since I consider him beneath my notice.
Looking forward to never hearing any accusations of bias again since you won't pay attention anymore. But if you ever try to go after my posts after this I guess you're just a liar.
Originally posted by EnyalusAgain, I think I agree with you, if what you mean is that it was Darkseid's true form which was the cause of the multiversal singularity, under his own power, etc etc. That is true. However, it took so much to kill him and he was so powerful because he had the ALE to strip free will from 3+ billion beings and gained power from their worship. Which is the point I wanted to express.
I don't know if you understood my point. In Orion's true form, in 4th world, Supes and Orion were about equal. Yes, Supes' size was increased via the boom tube in order to interact with everyone. But he was still Superman-level physically. He didn't get any power increase along with the size increase. Which was the point I wanted to make. Size doesn't relate to power. Orion was physically equal to Supes in our dimension when he used the Boom Tube to shrink his true form, and physically equal to Supes when in his true form, too.
There's no evidence to suggest that simply because one shrinks their size they also shrink their power. I mean, Darkseid didn't have have a physical form and was dragging the multiverse into his singularity. There can't be a connection between physical size and physical power.
I hope you agree. Or at least realize that I'm doing my best not to be a troll. 😛
I agree.
But I thought OneDumb's arguments on the subject were very well presented and could also be interpreted that way, too. [/B]
No Onedumb's arguments were correct.
It says very clearly on panel... The war crack time and space not DS's wave of a hand... It further says... Merely saying the ALE when broadcast cracked time and space again. Yet again not DS waving his hand. It took DS dying for anything and the sigularity to even be possible. Yet again not a wave of his hand. It took having a "powerup" the ALE to even win the war and too get things done in FC again not his normal powerset. YOu people act like he created this singularity from his own powerset and was crushing the multiverse. False
Jesus F-ing crist he didn't create the sigularity under his own power.. he didn't wave his hand cause the sigularity and starting crushing the multiverse. He got he heart ripped out which wasn't his plan. After events had played out then yes of course he went with the flow and really tried to mess shit up. Stop acting like the events that took place was his plan or all under his own power.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No Onedumb's arguments were correct.It says very clearly on panel... The war crack time and space not DS's wave of a hand... It further says... Merely saying the ALE when broadcast cracked time and space again. Yet again not DS waving his hand. It took DS dying for anything and the sigularity to even be possible. Yet again not a wave of his hand. It took having a "powerup" the ALE to even win the war and too get things done in FC again not his normal powerset. YOu people act like he created this singularity from his own powerset and was crushing the multiverse. False
ODG had some sound arguments but overall he didn't get the big picture. The singularity didn't happen as a result of DS dying or anything, the singularity was a result of his presence/impact in the material realm & was part of his plan and coincided with the purpose of the ALE. He says it himself in FC 5, that he'll drag everyone to his hell.
Simply put, the singularity was necessary for DS to manipulate the new iteration of reality, the 5th world. DS has always known that Earth would be the centre of the 5th world and that humanity would be the ancestors of a new super divinity, an eventuality which DS seeks to prevent as it would affect his plan for complete universal domination.
Therefore the doomsday singularity was necessary to prevent existence from escaping the ALE (since the ALE is a mathematical equation that needs some form of medium to affect someone). It is said that DS was willfully dragging the multiverse down into his hell at least 3 times.
Originally posted by AllanklesExactly.
You act like DS came down to Earth and went "oopsy" when the singularity formed. It wasn't some random symptom of his tamperings, he actually wanted to drag down the whole of the multiverse. It was said even before DS made it clear later in FC 5.
So, ur saying it was DS plan to die n thus he knew a sigularity would thus form etc etc. Please show me the scan saying that. It wasnt his plan to die but once that did occur and his role and importance etc etc formed the sigularity upon entering of course he's going to try n drag shit with him. Of course he would say n do that. However, that doesnt mean him dying n the war cracking time n space was his plan is my point.
Question Allan
1. Did it not say the war cracked time n space?
2. Did broadcasting the ALE also said to have cracked time n space?
3. Are claiming that even without dying DS couldve formed that sigularity with a wave of his hand?
The singularity wasn't formed by a wave of his hand it was formed by his hold on time and space after reality had caught up with his descent from the 4th world, the guardians/gl's said the impact of his descent onto Earth created cracks across all space sectors, and that time and space around Earth just crumpled "like it had been crushed in a fist".
The only time DS was actually dying was after the radion poisoning, at which point he started destroying the continuum as a form of spite, knowing he was going to die.
Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.
http://img269.imageshack.us/i/fc5p3233.jpg/
Btw, best sig you've ever had.
Originally posted by Allankles
The singularity wasn't formed by a wave of his hand it was formed by his [b]hold on time and space after reality had caught up with his descent from the 4th world, the guardians/gl's said the impact of his descent onto Earth created cracks across all space sectors, and that time and space around Earth just crumpled "like it had been crushed in a fist".The only time DS was actually dying was after the radion poisoning, at which point he started destroying the continuum as a form of spite, knowing he was going to die. [/B]
He didn't die when he heart was ripped out by Orion... Was the sigularity not caused by him dying Allan.. It was right where his heart was located. Now your claiming the sigularity was formed for some other reason... Come on man why are you trying to hold onto something that isn't there? The sigularity formed because of his role and importance entering into a realm that essentially couldn't hold him. As you admit he didn't form it with a wave of his hand. It formed for the reasons I just stated which was him dying and thus entering and dragging all down with him. It had more to do with his role, power and importance upon dying and thus having a void for all that is DS and him entering another world. It wasn't caused by a wave of his hand nor his own power.
Show me scan that says DS formed the sigularity from his own power set? You never addressed one of my questions... Show me the scan of DS saying it was his plan to die and thus a sigularity would form yada yada. The scan doesnt exist because that wasnt' his plan and he didn't know that would happen. Once it did he rolled with it but that wasn't his plan from the start nor his power that caused the sigularity. It was hiim entering a place he didn't belong and the void that was made by him dying.
-Darkseid-
"There was a war in heaven, Mr. Turpin, and I won":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839644/ds2.jpg.html
-Orion-
"Heaven cracked and broken":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839643/ds1.jpg.html
----
-Upon Darkseid's incarnation-
"Humankind's decent into the pit has begun":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839646/ds4.jpg.html
(the singularity began just by him merely existing.)
----
"Darkseid's falling, dragging this whole universe as he goes, the entire structure of existence, the whole multiverse Wally."
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839671/ds7.jpg.html
----
-Kyle-
"Spacetime around earth just crumpled, like it was in a crushed fist."
-Guardian-
"The impact of Darkseid's fall is causing cracks to spread through all space sectors":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839647/ds5.jpg.html
----
-John-
"We're falling into some kind of hell where everything is Darkseid":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839648/ds6.jpg.html
----
And we know Darkseid's "plague" was multiversal, because new earth = the foundation of all existence:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839645/ds3.jpg.html
Originally posted by Galan007
-Darkseid-
"There was a war in heaven, Mr. Turpin, and I won":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839644/ds2.jpg.html-Orion-
"Heaven cracked and broken":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839643/ds1.jpg.html----
-Upon Darkseid's incarnation-
"Humankind's decent into the pit has begun":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839646/ds4.jpg.html(the singularity began just by him merely existing.)
----
-Kyle-
"Spacetime around earth just crumpled, like it was in a crushed fist."-Guardian-
"The impact of Darkseid's fall is causing cracks to spread through all space sectors":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839647/ds5.jpg.html----
-John-
"We're falling into some kind of hell where everything is Darkseid":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839648/ds6.jpg.html----
And we know Darkseid's "plague" was multiversal, because new earth = the foundation of all existence:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1839645/ds3.jpg.html
All those quotes are good. However, was it not him dying that caused his fall into our reality? I'm looking for a scan saying it was his plan to die and thus knew a sigulairty would form and thus then he would start dragging all down with him. That wasn't his plan nor was it stated to be his plan which is my point. He had no idea that would happen but once it did... sure he went with it and did what it could to really **** shit up as best he could. However, the fact still remains none of that could've or would've happen under DS own powerset. He couldn't have waved his hand and started to crush space and time. It was HIM DYING and FALLING that caused the sigularity to form. It was that sigularity and lack of all that is DS entering a new world that couldn't hold him that was crushing time and space. This wasn't under his own power that caused the sigularity or the fall is the point.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He didn't die when he heart was ripped out by Orion... Was the sigularity not caused by him dying Allan.. It was right where his heart was located.
The singularity wasn't where his heart was located, seeing as the singularity was around Earth not on DS person. Yes it was his own "powerset", he was holding time and space and dragging it down, the singularity was a manifestation of this event.
In FC 5 it is clearly stated and I quote: "a fallen devil god is dragging us down with him into a deep dark hole in time."
FC 4: "Darkseid's falling, dragging this whole universe as he goes, the entire structure of existence, the whole multiverse wally."
So it wasn't some accident or symptom of his death, he wanted to drag the multiverse down into his hell.
And Galan already gave you the scan from FC 5 and you ignored it. Darkseid was going to pull down all of existence, and then murder everyone's soul with the ALE. It was his plan and intent to drag down the multiverse structure into New Earth space where the ALE had infected over 3 billion sentients.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
All those quotes are good. However, was it not him dying that caused his fall into our reality?
It was heaven (the 4th world) getting destroyed that threw him backwards through time into earth as we see in Seven Soldiers (which takes place before 52). Orion merely wounded/weakened him.
In FC, it was his final incarnation that brought about the singularity as he dragged down the multiverse.
The black racer was dragging him away from the multiverse in FC 7 and Superman - with counter vibrations - loosened his weakening grip on the multiverse structure.
Originally posted by Allankles👆
It was heaven (the 4th world) getting destroyed that threw him backwards through time into earth as we see in Seven Soldiers (which takes place before 52). Orion merely wounded/weakened him.
Orion said that heaven was "cracked and broken" in FC #1 - and in that comic 'Boss Dark Side' (from Seven Soldiers) was the current incarnation of Darkseid we saw. This means even that 'version' started breaking down creation, just by existing. But when DS was reincarnated into Turpin, the actual singularity was formed.
Originally posted by Allankles
It was heaven (the 4th world) getting destroyed that threw him backwards through time into earth as we see in Seven Soldiers (which takes place before 52). Orion merely wounded/weakened him.In FC, it was his final incarnation that brought about the singularity as he dragged down the multiverse.
The black racer was dragging him away from the multiverse in FC 7 and Superman - with counter vibrations - loosened his weakening grip on the multiverse structure.
👆 Batman even says it was his plan to shoot Orion from a point in time when he no longer exists, so nobody could stop Orion dying aka the main point why the Flashs couldn't catch the bullet. And I believe we already explained the 'war broke time space' debacle and what it means. Some just don't want to get it. 🙂
So, if DS wasn't killed when his heart was ripped out and thus fallling to the next world it was the war which made him fall?
Furthermore, then if that is what your saying.. your saying his plan was to have a war that cracked time and space and have his heart ripped out.... knowing it would form a sigularity. You guys keep on saying stuff that is irrelevant. Show me a scan saying he knew a war would crack time and space and he would have his heart ripped out and thus that would form a sigularity. The fact is he had no clue that would occur he just went with it once it did. However, it wasn't his own powerset that allowed that to occur. He didn't wave his hand and crack time and space. He couldn't have done squat had that not been a aftermath of the war. He couldn't wave his hand and form a sigularity either.
from what i gather, darkseid's past incarnation "dying" in his final battle is what initially caused space & time to crack (heck the immediate damage was such that whole universes were destroyed.) but it was only when darksied was resurected that the actual singularity (the one that was purposefully dragging down the multiverse) formed.
so his "death" may have been what caused the initial damage to spacetime, but it was only when he "respawned" that the multiverse as a whole was threatened via the "dds".
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So, if DS wasn't killed when his heart was ripped out and thus fallling to the next world it was the war which made him fall?
What part of "countdown was retconned" didn't you get? It' kind of pointless bringing up questions that are irrelevant to continuity. Orion wounded DS in the battle in heaven (the 4th world) countdown is a just a very loose interpretation of what happened.
DS didn't fall backwards in time because of death, he didn't die, he (leading Apokolips) fought a final destructive war against New Genesis. It was a forced war, a war that New Genesis could not help but fight because DS had mastered the full ALE.
The war destroyed their higher dimensional universe, sending DS (who had won the war) backwards through time several years in DC's past (7 Soldiers).
In FC, DS claimed his final incarnation (as prophesized by Lilith in the Crime Bible) as the New god of creation.
Time and space caught up with DS' descent, DS held on to the multiverse structure, literally "held" time and space which in turn resulted in a singularity dragging the multiverse. DS sought to disrupt the creation of the 5th world in order to recreate it using the ALE to infect all sentient life.
All your questions don't even attack the main purpose of DS plan, which is to disrupt the natural onset of the 5th world and recreate it (the new iteration of reality) in his image. So the singularity was very much part of his purpose, as he needed it for his plan to succeed.
