Jedi vs Sith

A Jedi team comprised of RotS incarnations of Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Mace Windu are sent as representatives of the Jedi Council, seeking a diplomatic solution to a Separatist movement on a random planet filled with hairy goulash looking aliens.

The Sith have orchestrated the entire movement to draw out the Jedi and strike them down. The Jedi are ambushed in the main auditorium by Count Dooku, Ventress, and a perfect clone of Darth Maul who was resurrected just to balance out this fight and because Ray Park demanded royalties.

For simplicity's sake, it's assumed that the fight is broken up like this:

Dooku fights Mace

Obi-wan fights Maul

Anakin fights Ventress

The assumption made is that the Jedi are surprised by the presence of the Sith and are attacked unwittingly, thus being immediately on the defensive. Since the fighters are fairly within each other's range when it comes to power, it's expected that no exchanges will be over immediately, and that tag-teaming will be impossible until the weakest link is destroyed.

Debaters are free to assume that once the weakest link has been destroyed, that the extra combatant may assist the weakest person on their team to balance things out. How this is determined depends heavily on your explained reasons.

Also for the sake of simplicity, we will not assume any offensive powers a la Push, Choke, Lightning, etc. will be used, but all combat will be saber-to-saber based, with H2H being a factor only if the combatant has a history of it.

If you simply say "Sith wins", or "Jedi wins", I expect reasons demonstrated for your case.

Neither winz!

Reasons plz, noob.

USA 2 Brazil 0. Sorry for the troll.

I'd say that the Jedi win:

Mace Windu beat Sidious, so he can obviously beat Dooku (yes that's ABC, but a perfectly logical one)

In my Obi Wan vs Maul thread almost everyone agreed that Obi Wan wins, so yeah

And Anakin by ROTS could beat Ventress if his CW self could

So this is strictly lightsaber combat? Is Vapaad and Shatterpoint permitted?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
So this is strictly lightsaber combat? Is Vapaad and Shatterpoint permitted?

Vapaad is his saber style, so it's clearly included. Shatterpoint? Hard to say. Shatterpoint's utility is extremely nebulous. Considering no one has seen how Mace perceives Dooku's Shatterpoint, it would take some amazing arguments to persuade me that it would work in this case. Even in the novel, the Shatterpoint doesn't immediately end battles for him, only shows him opportunities.

I'd say that the Jedi win:

Mace Windu beat Sidious, so he can obviously beat Dooku (yes that's ABC, but a perfectly logical one)

In my Obi Wan vs Maul thread almost everyone agreed that Obi Wan wins, so yeah

And Anakin by ROTS could beat Ventress if his CW self could

These are extremely poor reasons. Learn to substantiate all this on your own. Don't just throw out generalizations. Argue the specifics of the debates. Don't say "Obi-Wan beats Maul cuz others say so". What aspects of Obi-wan would make him better at defeating Maul than say, Qui-Gon Jinn? How would he come out ahead? Could he do it before his friends are destroyed? Would they get destroyed?

Agreed, however using that Highly reliable source Wookiepedia piced this up.

When applied to physical items, shatterpoints worked much in the same manner. An individual would view an item through the Force, noting where it came together and also noting weak points in its composition.

That little segment would say to me your using the Force so no, Shatterpoint would not be permitted either.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Vapaad is his saber style, so it's clearly included. Shatterpoint? Hard to say. Shatterpoint's utility is extremely nebulous. Considering no one has seen how Mace perceives Dooku's Shatterpoint, it would take some amazing arguments to persuade me that it would work in this case. Even in the novel, the Shatterpoint doesn't immediately end battles for him, only shows him opportunities.

To Janus' point, we wouldn't even know what the person's shatterpoint would be and if it could even be capitalized on. For example, Sidious' shatterpoint was his trust in Anakin (and that was what ended up killing him), and if Anakin wasn't present, what's to say shatterpoint would be effective in combat?

Originally posted by Advent
To Janus' point, we wouldn't even know what the person's shatterpoint would be and if it could even be capitalized on. For example, Sidious' shatterpoint was his trust in Anakin (and that was what ended up killing him), and if Anakin wasn't present, what's to say shatterpoint would be effective in combat?

I'm going to assume that there's more than one shatterpoint and that nobody lacks a shatterpoint.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I'm going to assume that there's more than one shatterpoint and that nobody lacks a shatterpoint.

Then you're making a completely unsupported assumption that still fails to address the point: we don't know what the shatterpoint would be and if it would be viable in actual combat.

Originally posted by Advent
Then you're making a completely unsupported assumption that still fails to address the point: we don't know what the shatterpoint would be and if it would be viable in actual combat.

This is a hard 1

Darth Mall could beat Ob1 because in TPM Obi-wan sliced him in half so he could slice him in half again. but anikin could beat Assajjj Vintris easy because he's the chosen one. Also, Mace is better than dooku because Mace beat Sidius and Sidius could beat Dooku so that means Mace would win. Also, Ob1 beat Mall and Mace was better than Ob1 so that means he could beat mall easy, so the jedi would win

I think that if the sith had Darth Scarz instead of darth Mall they could win

Originally posted by mattatom
Caedus uses it on Jaina (I think) in combat (Source i believe is Invincible). so yes it is viable.

Not at all.

You're using a singular application against Jaina. Yes, Jaina's shatterpoint may be able to be capitalized on in combat or directly related to combat, that does not mean that everyone's shatterpoint can be taken advantage of or even related to combat, which is what I've been getting at.

Since we wouldn't even have the knowledge of what the person's shatterpoint would be, we can't suggest it will be useful in a fight.

The female is right. The Shatterpoint technique is only effective in certain scenarios. If it hasn't been used on someone in the series, then it's useless as a combat variable.

I believe Obi-wan could defeat Maul, as the young PM Obi managed to defeat maul and this is the RotS Obi, who has many more years saber and force experience. Also considering this is a perfect Maul clone, and that RotS Obi-wan has defeated Maul before, he may remember the best way to fight Maul and will at least know what to expect.🙂

Mace is superior to Dooku in combat, because, as Hewhoknowsall stated, Mace almost defeated Sidious, and Sidious is far superior to Dooku in combat.

The CW Anakinwas able to defeat Ventress, so, naturally, his RotS self would be able too as well.

Originally posted by Obi7
I believe Obi-wan could defeat Maul, as the young PM Obi managed to defeat maul and this is the RotS Obi, who has many more years saber and force experience. Also considering this is a perfect Maul clone, and that RotS Obi-wan has defeated Maul before, he may remember the best way to fight Maul and will at least know what to expect.🙂

Mace is superior to Dooku in combat, because, as Hewhoknowsall stated, Mace almost defeated Sidious, and Sidious is far superior to Dooku in combat.

The CW Anakinwas able to defeat Ventress, so, naturally, his RotS self would be able too as well.

Kenobi defeated Maul not through strength and skill (of which Maul was superior), but through exploitation of Maul's arrogance and momentary stupidity.

Originally posted by mattatom
Caedus uses it on Jaina (I think) in combat (Source i believe is Invincible). so yes it is viable.

No. He uses it to shatter a Beskar effortlessly w/one tap, while Jaina was watching, not ON her.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
No. He uses it to shatter a Beskar effortlessly w/one tap, while Jaina was watching, not ON her.