White men win a "discrimination" case.

Started by dadudemon4 pages

White men win a "discrimination" case.

Some think this will set a precedent. Others think this type of thing will slowly fade out of America as fewer an fewer cases like those will ever be brought up.

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court declared Monday that white firefighters in Connecticut were unfairly denied promotion because of their race, ruling against minorities in a major reverse discrimination case that could affect bosses and workers nationwide. The justices threw out a decision that high court nominee Sonia Sotomayor had endorsed as an appeals court judge.

In its last session until September, the court's conservative majority prevailed in a 5-4 ruling that faulted New Haven and the courts that had upheld the city's discarding of results of an exam in which no African-Americans scored high enough to be promoted to lieutenant or captain.

The city said it acted to avoid a lawsuit from minorities, but Justice Anthony Kennedy said in his majority opinion that New Haven's action amounted to discrimination based on race against the white firefighters who were likely to be promoted.

"No individual should face workplace discrimination based on race," Kennedy said.

The ruling restricts, but does not eliminate employers' ability to take diversity into account in employment decisions. But the ruling could make it harder for minorities to prove discrimination based solely on lopsided racial hiring or promotions.

...

Labor and employment lawyers suggested that companies that act to encourage and preserve racial, gender and age diversity would need to be very careful to avoid reverse discrimination lawsuits.

For example, said employment lawyer Mark Dichter, an employer might be sued under Monday's ruling for scrapping an unannounced round of layoffs because women, racial minorities or older workers would be disproportionately affected and substituting a different analysis that affected other workers.

"If those facts came out, it would certainly support a reverse discrimination claim," said Dichter, chairman of the Morgan, Lewis law firm's labor and employment division in Philadelphia.

In New Haven, Mayor John DeStefano Jr. criticized the court's decision. The court's "interpretation of anti-discrimination law has for some time been showing increasing distance from reasonable and time-tested efforts," he said.

However, lead plaintiff Frank Ricci, speaking from the steps of New Haven's city hall, said the ruling showed that "if you work hard, you can succeed in America."

...

Full article here. I suggest you guys read it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_go_su_co/us_supreme_court_firefighters_lawsuit

What are your thoughts?

Here are questions that I have:

1. Why is it discrimination to have a test in place that has more people fail from a specific racial demographic when all humans are capable of the same intellectual potential?

2. Why do handicaps need to be given, based on race? Isn't hard work enough? Why do we alter things to "even" the odds to help a specific race?

3. Are not the statistical correlations of race-based failures a function of education which owes it success partially the subculture of the race in America, and the education opportunities via the public school systems which has a race-geographic correlation. (Where you live can be partially correlated to the level of education received.)

Discuss these three points. My hope is to gain enlightenment from my fellow posters. Hopefully, I can increase in understanding of how race "plays" in America.

Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Some think this will set a precedent. Others think this type of thing will slowly fade out of America as fewer an fewer cases like those will ever be brought up.

Full article here. I suggest you guys read it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_go_su_co/us_supreme_court_firefighters_lawsuit

What are your thoughts?

Here are questions that I have:

1. Why is it discrimination to have a test in place that has more people fail from a specific racial demographic when all humans are capable of the same intellectual potential?

2. Why do handicaps need to be given, based on race? Isn't hard work enough? Why do we alter things to "even" the odds to help a specific race?

3. Are not the statistical correlations of race-based failures a function of education which owes it success partially the subculture of the race in America, and the education opportunities via the public school systems which has a race-geographic correlation. (Where you live can be partially correlated to the level of education received.)

Discuss these three points. My hope is to gain enlightenment from my fellow posters. Hopefully, I can increase in understanding of how race "plays" in America.

1. it isnt when the people failing in question are part of a highest socio economic strata. nurture plays a role in determining intellectual capacity vs intellectual potential

2. because the odds are made uneven by society in the first place by keeping certain races as a whole on a lower socioeconomic strata

3. function of education? yes. and educational oppurtunities and enviornments are already racially biased. and the subculture are an EFFECT of and not the cause of the socioeconomic bias of the country.

Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Why is it discrimination to have a test in place that has more people fail from a specific racial demographic when all humans are capable of the same intellectual potential?

Where did you develop that theory?

Besides even if everyone had exactly the same potential in exactly the same areas in exactly the same learning style it wouldn't mean they had the same opportunities and experiences. However, firefighters really should have gone through training so it doesn't apply here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
2. Why do handicaps need to be given, based on race? Isn't hard work enough? Why do we alter things to "even" the odds to help a specific race?

The inferior negroid races of Africa should be given opportunity so that they have the chance to become productive in modern civilization. People that are scared of the "metal lions" deserve assistance with their racial handicaps.

Originally posted by dadudemon
3. Are not the statistical correlations of race-based failures a function of education which owes it success partially the subculture of the race in America, and the education opportunities via the public school systems which has a race-geographic correlation. (Where you live can be partially correlated to the level of education received.)

Yes.

Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Where did you develop that theory?

Besides even if everyone had exactly the same potential in exactly the same areas in exactly the same learning style it wouldn't mean they had the same opportunities and experiences. However, firefighters really should have gone through training so it doesn't apply here.

I was under the assumption that all humans had the same intellectual potential, regardless of what actually happens in their nuturing.

Is this incorrect?

In other words, switch Scott Duncan Smith with Michael Tyrone Williams at birth, and William will end up "stupid" and Michael will end up just as intelligent and knowledgeable as Scott would have. Is that incorrect? Is there really different intellectual potentials across the races? I mean, sure there is actual differences, but are the potentials different?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The inferior negroid races of Africa should be given opportunity so that they have the chance to become productive in modern civilization. People that are scared of the "metal lions" deserve assistance with their racial handicaps.

Race is a handicap? I thought it was a benefit.

My bad.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes.

I think that humans are more than intelligent enough to shake the bonds of racial "handicaps". In fact, I don't like even calling it a "handicap."

If you can't work hard, then you deserve what you've worked for. If you work hard and are discriminated against, then sue. 🙂 It doesn't matter what your race is...this is my personal opinion. Now, in the course of this discussion, I may be mature in my understanding...which is the point of this thread.

Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Where did you develop that theory?

Besides even if everyone had exactly the same potential in exactly the same areas in exactly the same learning style it wouldn't mean they had the same opportunities and experiences. However, firefighters really should have gone through training so it doesn't apply here.

The inferior negroid races of Africa should be given opportunity so that they have the chance to become productive in modern civilization. People that are scared of the "metal lions" deserve assistance with their racial handicaps.

Yes.

was the "inferior race of negroids" sarcasm or r u actually serious?!

Re: Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was under the assumption that all humans had the same intellectual potential, regardless of what actually happens in their nuturing.

Is this incorrect?

Yes, it's incorrect. We do not all have same intellectual capacity and many factors within evolution have contributed to that.

Re: Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was under the assumption that all humans had the same intellectual potential, regardless of what actually happens in their nuturing.

Is this incorrect?

In other words, switch Scott Duncan Smith with Michael Tyrone Williams at birth, and William will end up "stupid" and Michael will end up just as intelligent and knowledgeable as Scott would have. Is that incorrect? Is there really different intellectual potentials across the races? I mean, sure there is actual differences, but are the potentials different?

Current wisdom in measuring intelligence says that intelligence goes across many different factors.

I don't know who Scott Smith and Mike Williams are but if one of them is "wired" to have intelligence that makes him good at football and the other "wired" to be be good at mathematics they'll never reach the others level at that area. You can certainly teach both of them math and football but they're simply not going to be equals.

People with severe deficits/differences in learning ability (autism, downs, brain trauma) form the basis for the idea that everyone is in fact not equal. If these things exist at extreme levels it makes logical sense that more minor versions would also have effects.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Race is a handicap? I thought it was a benefit.

My bad.

I was kidding 😐

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think that humans are more than intelligent enough to shake the bonds of racial "handicaps". In fact, I don't like even calling it a "handicap."

If you can't work hard, then you deserve what you've worked for. If you work hard and are discriminated against, then sue. 🙂 It doesn't matter what your race is...this is my personal opinion. Now, in the course of this discussion, I may be mature in my understanding...which is the point of this thread.

You can work through many limitations you have but that doesn't mean you can necessarily reach the same level as someone who didn't or for whom it's simply easier.

Let's say that Alice and Bob (who can be of any race or mix of races) both set out to become mathematicians. If Alice is a genius and gets into college at 15 and Bob learns more slowly and doesn't get in until 20. Even if they have equal potential the gap will simply never be actual equals making that potential rather meaningless.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
was the "inferior race of negroids" sarcasm or r u actually serious?!

Curse you Poe's Law.
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

Re: Re: Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Yes, it's incorrect. We do not all have same intellectual capacity and many factors within evolution have contributed to that.

Are you saying this from a racial standpoint, eg Asians are smarter than Southern Africans?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by Robtard
Are you saying this from a racial standpoint, eg Asians are smarter than Southern Africans?

Asians are super smart, they actually read instruction manuals.

Seriously.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by grimify
Asians are super smart, they actually read instruction manuals.

Seriously.

It's extremely rare for me to read an instruction manual, yet I'm able to either put together or operate whatever it is I bought.

Ergo, I am smarter than super-smart Asians.

Good, Sodomayer or whatever her name is made a terrible decision in that case.

There's no such thing as "reverse discrimination."

There's discrimination and that's all.

Hire the best person for the job and stop this garbage.

Originally posted by KidRock
Good, Sodomayer or whatever her name is made a terrible decision in that case.

She should be deported. 😄

If not for this, for her gross incompetence.

Originally posted by The Scribe
There's no such thing as "reverse discrimination."

There's discrimination and that's all.

Hire the best person for the job and stop this garbage.

She should be deported. 😄

If not for this, for her gross incompetence.

Or for being blatantly racist..but we will let that slide, she is after all an oppressed minority held down by the white majority.

Originally posted by KidRock
Or for being blatantly racist..but we will let that slide, she is after all an oppressed minority held down by the white majority.

She's so oppressed by the white man.

Whoa is her. 😱

If anyone seriously thinks that they will be deported with her. 😈

Originally posted by The Scribe
She's so oppressed by the white man.

Whoa is her. 😱

If anyone seriously thinks that they will be deported with her. 😈

racist

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's extremely rare for me to read an instruction manual, yet I'm able to either put together or operate whatever it is I bought.

Ergo, I am smarter than super-smart Asians.

Not a chance.

Originally posted by KidRock
racist

😱 😄

Originally posted by KidRock
Or for being blatantly racist..but we will let that slide, she is after all an oppressed minority held down by the white majority.

Don't forget that she's also another victim of the malecentric maleocracy!

Re: White men win a "discrimination" case.

Originally posted by dadudemon

What are your thoughts?

Here are questions that I have:

1. Why is it discrimination to have a test in place that has more people fail from a specific racial demographic when all humans are capable of the same intellectual potential?

2. Why do handicaps need to be given, based on race? Isn't hard work enough? Why do we alter things to "even" the odds to help a specific race?

3. Are not the statistical correlations of race-based failures a function of education which owes it success partially the subculture of the race in America, and the education opportunities via the public school systems which has a race-geographic correlation. (Where you live can be partially correlated to the level of education received.)

Discuss these three points. My hope is to gain enlightenment from my fellow posters. Hopefully, I can increase in understanding of how race "plays" in America.

I might offer a fuller response later but breakfast awaits: It is not simply the color of a person's skin but the history that comes with the specific people that might determine why these things are in place.

I do believe that I would not have been able to go to college has certain measures for black Americans been put in place following the civil rights movement which helped my parents' generation do well (this is also a complex statement but just work with me for now).

In general, minorities are given hard times in different nations history which is why there is a bit a favor given to them because they are not as likely to have the same standard of living given the same conditions (statistically). Of course the point is to get to the point where this is no longer needed but we are still some decades away from that in the U.S. , not just with black Americans and white Americans but all people. It would be foolish to say that discrimination no longer exist, but that is the fault of everyone.

This country still lacks open, honest discussion so everyone gets offended. After those discussions can be had, tons of progress can be made and this sort of shit will no longer be needed. Speaking honestly, I do not believe it's coming in my lifetime.

Lawyers are now saying that making White people a race has turned discrimination law into a minefield:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090630/ap_on_go_su_co/us_supreme_court_firefighters_lawsuit