Kyle Katarn vs. Yoda

Combatants: Kyle Katarn at his prime (trick statement, Kyle Katarn is always in his prime) vs. RotS Yoda.

Setting: The great halls of the Jedi Temple, Coruscant.

Rules: If it isn't against the rules (and there are none), I'll allow it!

This fight may have been done before, but I can't be bothered to look for it (I might have even made it). These are two of the most powerful Jedi in the entire mythology, and each one brings with them different strengths over the other. Yoda and Katarn are both master swordsman who have shown to be very powerful and proficient with the Force. Who wins and for Buddha's sake, tell us why.

FIGHT!

Tell me something about Kyle. Nothing in wookieepedia suggests that he is in Yoda's league.

Most of what I've seen is in the games (PC and PS2) and it isn't that impressive. From what I've read though, if Katarn was easily beaten by Caedus than how could he possibly beat Yoda?

Truculent, did you even read the book? Katarn had to hold back during that fight because the other Jedi with him were completely inexperienced and he had to spend most of his efforts protecting them. That said, Caedus still couldn't win without cheating or outside interference.

If you read the book, you'd see that he called in a vehicle to charge Katarn, which threw him off balance for a moment. I believe it was said that Kyle would've killed Jacen in his final assault if it hadn't been for that.

So he was never traditionally defeated by Caedus and it's clear that if the two fought under neutral circumstances, Kyle would be able to hold his own easily.

And that fight just demonstrates how supremely skilled Katarn is, rather than it being a mark against him.

Originally posted by Advent
Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.

Originally posted by Advent
Now, while that's impressive, Kyle has far more under his belt, and the fact he was able to do it with little to no real Jedi training - a neophyte - it only adds to the fact. He was able to defeat Sariss. She is a very formidable duelist, she is second [b]only to Jerec out of everyone during that time, and she was a master lightsaber user as noted by Qu Rahn "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe." And keep in mind Qu Rahn is the guy who was able to singlehandedly cut Maw in half even while being vastly outnumbered. He's no pushover.

He also faced against Boc the Cruda, the insane Twi'lek that Jerec had picked, so we can obviously gauge he was powerful. He used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style as well, which as far as I recall, was said to "slay many Jedi". As well, he took on Pic and Gorc, two "brothers" who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly." And we do know Pic and Gorc are deadly. They are like the Dark Jedi version of how Mace and Depa are described, "making up for each others' weaknesses".

As well, there was also Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." And finally - for lightsaber combat - there's Maw, who's only half a body anyways, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe". He uses Trispzest lightsaber form, and he is a strong duelist in any case. Kyle also took on Mara Jade with no training either, and while she may not be near the best - she is still decent.

Kyle killed Jerec, Sariss, and five others in lightsaber combat, lol. With little to no formal training. And now he is a fully trained Jedi Master, and battle master - lightsaber instructor - of the New Jedi Order.

And we can also add to the fact that he did defeat Desann, where Luke had not. [/B]

Originally posted by Advent
But wait, Kyle has also faced an opponent who could harness the power of the Force, and turned it into a beam, Jerec, when he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi:

"The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and a hurled the construct at Kyle's chest."

"had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship."

So, I'm inclined to believe Kyle knows what he's dealing with first of all, which is a help, and because of that would be able to either defend against it with a Force barrier (given what we know of Tott's feat with it), or just remove the Dark side energy, "[b]The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed."

Okay, he doesn't need to stop the amulet blast, he just cuts Sadow's connection to the Force off:

"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."

And really, to your realize the power Jerec held while Kyle did this? Jerec had this kind of power when he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi: "eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power.", and given he also does this "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion", which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened, I'd be inclined to say he can do it to Sadow (cut him off). Either that or just sever the Dark side energy. [/B]

Originally posted by Advent
- Kyle has more experience dealing with enemy forces. We know this because Ulic's first mission was to Iziz. So, he hardly is battle hardened. Not saying that he doesn't have some experience, however, Kyle has 5 years of experience through the Yuuzhan Vong war. And he also has 4 from the Galactic Civil War.
- He was singlehandedly able to infiltrate an Imperial installation on Danuta, securing the technical plans of the Empire's Death Star battle station.
- He has bested a countless number of troopers, and if I remember correctly, was able to beat Boba Fett.

We do know experience matters, not the determining factor, but it gives Kyle a big edge. Given he's dealt with unorthodox fighters, immensely powerful fighters, and is pretty much equipped for [b]every and any threat he must face. [/B]

My apologies - been awhile since I played the games and read the books. I'm a bit rusty on Kyle's history.

Yoda wins. Kyle Katarn is powerful but Yoda is arguably the 2nd most powerful jedi of all time.

Originally posted by Advent
Truculent, did you even read the book?

Probably not. But neither, I suspect, did you. Or if you did, your interpretation of the passage differs wildly from mine.

Katarn had to hold back during that fight because the other Jedi with him were completely inexperienced and he had to spend most of his efforts protecting them.

I have a copy of Fury saved to my computer and, after skimming through the passage, I recall only one such instance: Caedus hurls a Jedi at Katarn who is forced to catch her with his bare hands.

Ironically, the passage also demonstrates that one Jedi, Kolir, disrupted a retaliatory blow on Caedus's part, the narration stating point-blank that her actions "spared Katarn an amputation."

So unless there's something else I'm missing, we can throw this particular point out the window, because Katarn's squad saved his ass as much as he saved theirs.

That said, Caedus still couldn't win without cheating or outside interference.

This is an interesting perspective to take, since Katarn attacked with three other Jedi. I'd say a four-on-one fights qualifies as "cheating" or "outside interference" as much as, if not more, than environmental manipulation.

If you read the book, you'd see that he called in a vehicle to charge Katarn, which threw him off balance for a moment.

No more or less legitimate than Sidious and Yoda fighting by proxy (Senate pods).

I believe it was said that Kyle would've killed Jacen in his final assault if it hadn't been for that.

My copy of the book doesn't say that.

So he was never traditionally defeated by Caedus

Eh? It was a fight to the death in which both opponents were prepared. Katarn had assistance; Caedus merely manipulated the environment, which countless Jedi and Sith have done throughout the saga.

And he was defeated.

and it's clear that if the two fought under neutral circumstances, Kyle would be able to hold his own easily.

How? Where is that shown?

If Katarn were more powerful than Yoda, then he could easily beat Caedus by himself, so if the reason why he lost was because his inexperienced teammates were a reliability then why doesn't he just go by himself and defeat Caedus?

Also going to have to call Advent out on this subject, because I distinctly recall saying that Caedus couldn't defeat Kyle by himself without 'cheating' is a distortion. In fact, from pretty early on in the fight?
Fury, page 88
Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along his cheek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation.

Without Kolir, Kyle would've been missing a leg from early on. He isn't what we might term a great match for Jacen.

Caedus vs Katarn???

I must have read the title wrong.. 😛

So wait:

If Caedus could beat Katarn by "cheating", ie using the environment (which isn't really cheating), then couldn't Yoda do the same to win (since you specified that they aren't any rules in the OP)?

Advent, and you serious or is this a joke thread?

How does Kyle have three votes?

Psychological polling. People are going to feel more emotionally inclined to vote for Kyle when the poll reads "Kyle Katarn, he's absolutely stunning!" due to the fact that most people would agree that he is absolutely stunning. It's why I personally voted for him multiple times.

You play a clever game Advent... and I really need to start posting in the right account. Sorry Lightsnake...

It's been almost a year plus since I've read Fury, seems I was rather inaccurate in what I said. I just checked, and almost nothing is there. Strange, since I could swear those things to have actually been stated. 😕

Originally posted by Liqhtsnake
Psychological polling. People are going to feel more emotionally inclined to vote for Kyle when the poll reads "Kyle Katarn, he's absolutely stunning!" due to the fact that most people would agree that he is absolutely stunning. It's why I personally voted for him multiple times.

Eh? It was a fight to the death in which both opponents were prepared. Katarn had assistance; Caedus merely manipulated the environment, which countless Jedi and Sith have done throughout the saga.
[/B]

Eh fight to the death? As I recall, they weren't attempting to kill Caedus, but plant a tracker on him.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Eh fight to the death? As I recall, they weren't attempting to kill Caedus, but plant a tracker on him.

You know, it's really the height of foolishness to NOT kill the Sith Lord if it's within your power at all.