Animal Cruelty: Evil or Not?

ushomefree Senior Member

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Animal Cruelty is evil; on humanistic terms, it is repugnant!

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YouTube video

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

FACT: Hitler was against animal cruelty.

DO YOU WANT TO BE LIKE HITLER?

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Causing suffering to an animal including humans, is an act of evil.

ushomefree Senior Member

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Fact: Hitler was against animal cruelty. Do you want to be like Hitler?

With regard to that respect, yes.

Originally post by Shakyamunison
Causing suffering to an animal including humans, is an act of evil.

I completely agree; but why is it evil?

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by ushomefree
With regard to that respect, yes.
I completely agree; but why is it evil?

Because suffering leads to suffering.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because suffering leads to suffering.

How do we define suffering? Why is suffering bad?

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because suffering leads to suffering.

And drinking leads to peeing.

🙄

ushomefree Senior Member

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Because suffering leads to suffering.

Yes, but what does that have to do with something being evil (or why something is evil). Suffering is the "result" -- the extension/effect -- of evil? Suffering is also the result of bad choices and/or ignorance. It may have absolutely nothing to do with morality. Let's not get sidetracked, please. With respect to the video provided in the thread: Why is Animal Cruelty evil? To state, "suffering leads to suffering" contains zero explanatory insight/power to the issue. Understand?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And drinking leads to peeing.

And drinking also leads to siroccos of the liver, alcoholism, and the destruction of families! If you think such statements are humorous or an overstatement, join a self-help group (AA). Reality is bigger than your ego, buddy. You'd actually be amazed, ha ha!

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How do we define suffering? Why is suffering bad?

It all depends on what type of suffering. Suffering for a good cause is not what I was talking about, but causing the Innocent to suffer is.

King Kandy Senior Member

By what moral standard is it to be declared evil? I'm going to take a guess and say you're going to lead this conversation into "morality can only be justified by divinity" logic.

What is the rationality-based argument that this is evil that you have in mind?

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by ushomefree
Yes, but what does that have to do with something being evil (or why something is evil). Suffering is the "result" -- the extension/effect -- of evil? Suffering is also the result of bad choices and/or ignorance. It may have absolutely nothing to do with morality. Let's not get sidetracked, please. With respect to the video provided in the thread: Why is Animal Cruelty evil? To state, "suffering leads to suffering" contains zero explanatory insight/power to the issue. Understand?...

You are the one who does not understand. There is no difference between animal suffering and human suffering. Evil is an action, and suffering is an action. To cause the innocent to suffer is a corruption of the individual, and that action is evil. The suffering of the innocent is also evil. The first evil lead to the second evil.

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And drinking leads to peeing.
🙄

Even through your sarcasm the truth shines.

ushomefree Senior Member

Originally posted by King Kandy
By what moral standard is it to be declared evil?

That is my question! We all agree that animal cruelty is evil; but what makes such actions/behavior evil? Is the answer found in a test tube, lab and/or text book? Or can it be found within ourselves? It's very simple question, but it demands honesty.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm going to take a guess and say you're going to lead this conversation into "morality can only be justified by divinity" logic.

That is a view that I believe; all man (regardless of social upbringing and/or race share). We all understand moral law, and we all apply it to ourselves. That is for damn sure. The difference is, only some apply it to others. Understand? Regardless, the sense of morality still exists. Where does it come from?!

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by ushomefree
That is my question! We all agree that animal cruelty is evil; but what makes such actions/behavior evil? Is the answer found in a test tube, lab and/or text book? Or can it be found within ourselves? It's very simple question, but it demands honesty...

Evil is a social judgment. This social judgment came into being through evolution. Those societies that did not have a well defined definition of evil did not function as well, and they died out. It all has to do with getting along. Getting along means survival.

King Kandy Senior Member

Originally posted by ushomefree
That is my question! We all agree that animal cruelty is evil; but what makes such actions/behavior evil? Is the answer found in a test tube, lab and/or text book? Or can it be found within ourselves? It's very simple question, but it demands honesty.

Oh, that is a very simple one. Originally, no such concept existed: hunter-gatherers would have to kill animals in often brutal and painful manor just to survive. Clearly they were not worried about the suffering of the animals. But in order for the race to survive, a sense to not kill each other had to be developed. A sense that causing each other suffering was wrong.

Later, when not all of man's resources were occupied in the killing for food, reason prompted man to apply the logic that an animal ought not to be treated differently than a man. This coincides with the creation of domesticated animals, where animals became viewed as allies in the quest for survival rather than beasts that had to be killed by necessity.

Originally posted by ushomefree
That is a view that I believe; all man (regardless of social upbringing and/or race share). We all understand moral law, and we all apply it to ourselves. That is for damn sure. The difference is, only some apply it to others. Understand? Regardless, the sense of morality still exists. Where does it come from?!

It comes from the instincts necessary for the survival of the species, taken to their logical conclusion through the use of reason and empathy.

ushomefree Senior Member

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Evil is a social judgment.

False.

Tradition or what you like for dinner is!

Having your head cut off would never be a good thing.

Well... maybe someone else, but never yourself.

Of course, this may be the result of an over inflated imagination or a sense of self-indulgence/pride.

I don't know... contact your local Shrink or Satanist for alternate views.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This social judgment came into being through evolution. Those societies that did not have a well defined definition of evil did not function as well, and they died out. It all has to do with getting along. Getting along means survival.

I agree with the your first premise: "societies [not having] a well defined definition of evil did not function as well," but not the latter: "they [die] out."

For the former, that is absolutely true, but let me explain something.

Morality does not evolve, and it does not change.

Anyone familiar with history knows that morality has remained the same.

Only politics, social grips, and bureaucrats change. Like the Bible says, "Their is nothing new under the sun."

If further explanation is needed, please let me know.

I'm not trying to be a prick!

I just have strong conviction in my beliefs (which is rare these days).

That, however, has nothing to do with survival, ha ha!

The point is, survival deals with reproduction and sources of food. Some of the worst crime infested cities in the US continue to grow. And let me tell you, it has nothing to to with morality! The cause: reproductive organs and a food supply. Get it?

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Morality does not evolve, and it does not change.

Then it is still moral to hold slaves?

King Kandy Senior Member

Originally posted by ushomefree
False.
Tradition or what you like for dinner is!
Having your head cut off would never be a good thing.
Well... maybe someone else, but never yourself.
Of course, this may be the result of an over inflated imagination or a sense of self-indulgence/pride.
I don't know... contact your local Shrink or Satanist for alternate views.

I think you are confusing "survival instincts" with morality. Of course people don't want to be killed, it's built into every single life form on Earth to preserve it's own life and has nothing to do with morality.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I agree with the your first premise: "societies [not having] a well defined definition of evil did not function as well," but not the latter: "they [die] out."
For the former, that is absolutely true, but let me explain something.

There is no society that has no concept of hurting others being wrong, and there is a reason for this: they could never form a society in the first place! So while Shaky is not entirely correct in saying they "die out", this doesn't aid your point at all. Humans are physically weak and NEED to be able to interact with others to survive, so it is a BIOLOGICAL NECESSITY to have a sense of morality.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Morality does not evolve, and it does not change.

Complete nonsense. In pre-civilized cultures the mentioned animal issue DID NOT EXIST because every day was spent finding and killing animals in painful ways. If people had complete empathy for animals in the beginning, they never would have survived. There was nothing even remotely resembling PETA in pre-history.

Originally posted by ushomefree Anyone unfamiliar with history knows that morality has remained the same.

Quote changed for improved accuracy.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Only politics, social grips, and bureaucrats change. Like the Bible says, "Their is nothing new under the sun."

Oh yeah, that totally proves it. I see your wisdom now, oh great teacher!

Originally posted by ushomefree
The point is, survival deals with reproduction and sources of food. Some of the worst crime infested cities in the US continue to grow. And let me tell you, it has nothing to to with morality! The cause: reproductive organs and a food supply. Get it?

Apparently you haven't realized that you can't reproduce if you're dead. If you have no empathy with those around you you CANNOT find a mate and you CANNOT cooperate enough to find food. Morality is nothing but the label put on instincts collected for the purpose of allowing safe interactions with other members of the species.

Shakyamunison Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Originally posted by ushomefree
False.
Tradition or what you like for dinner is!

No thank you; I’ve eaten.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Having your head cut off would never be a good thing.
Well... maybe someone else, but never yourself.

You should place your bother before yourself.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Of course, this may be the result of an over inflated imagination or a sense of self-indulgence/pride.
I don't know... contact your local Shrink or Satanist for alternate views.

So, now we know that insulting is not below you.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I agree with the your first premise: "societies [not having] a well defined definition of evil did not function as well," but not the latter: "they [die] out."

Please, explain.

Originally posted by ushomefree
For the former, that is absolutely true, but let me explain something.
Morality does not evolve, and it does not change.

Then it will not last. The Second Law of Thermodynamics!

Originally posted by ushomefree
Anyone familiar with history knows that morality has remained the same.

^
What Red Nemesis said.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Only politics, social grips, and bureaucrats change. Like the Bible says, "Their is nothing new under the sun."

There is nothing new under the sun. The Hydrogen Atom in the water you drink is ~13 + billions years old.

Originally posted by ushomefree
If further explanation is needed, please let me know.

I’m going to have to think about it.

Originally posted by ushomefree
I'm not trying to be a prick!

But you are doing a very good job at it!!! 👆

Originally posted by ushomefree
I just have strong conviction in my beliefs (which is rare these days).

I like it when you feel strong in your beliefs. Only people with weak faith need to strike out at others.

Originally posted by ushomefree
That, however, has nothing to do with survival, ha ha!

If all humans die, what will become of god?

Originally posted by ushomefree
The point is, survival deals with reproduction and sources of food. Some of the worst crime infested cities in the US continue to grow. And let me tell you, it has nothing to to with morality! The cause: reproductive organs and a food supply. Get it?

Sounds like you are advocating natural selection.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Even through your sarcasm the truth shines.

🙄

Animal Cruelty Evil?