Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Waiting to hear that from whom? Your country spreads propaganda like wildfire for all other countries, why would Israel be any different?
Bush's "der evildoers" speeches had nothing to do with Islamic states having a right to exist or not.
So yeah, I've yet to hear anti-Israel like "propaganda" for an Islamic nation, as I do for Israel, aka "Zionist", in this country, any of the countries I've visited or from foreigners online.
Originally posted by Robtard
Bush's "der evildoers" speeches had nothing to do with Islamic states having a right to exist or not.So yeah, I've yet to hear anti-Israel like "propaganda" for an Islamic nation, as I do for Israel, aka "Zionist", in this country, any of the countries I've visited or from foreigners online.
That is hardly the same. How are you going to argue if Syria or Lebanon has the right to exist? Based on what?
Israel has a specific history of forming which cannot be attributed to many Islamic countries - perhaps we can speak about Pakistan, but say what exactly? They came to an agreement with Indians to exist and their sovereignty is not in question.
Following the same road, noone speaks about millions of Kurds that do not have their own country.
Why doesn't Kurdistan as a sovereign nation have a right to exist chipping parts of Turkey and Iraq off?
On the other hand, why are two Turkish republics allowed to exist but one Cypriot not? Why are there two Albanian states allowed to form, one on Serbian soil?
Noone speaks about that either.
Originally posted by Robtard
Wouldn't a nation of Jews be in fact a "Jewish Nation"?Also, what's inherently wrong with having a Jewish Nation, as you put it. When there's several Islamic Nations and no one cries about those, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Indonesia. Just about any country that practices Sharia Law could be considered an Islamic Nation for that matter.
well i dont cry about them but i complain a lot about them. there shud be NO nations whose constitution or governance, in both internal and external matters has ANY CONNECTION with relegion.
thats what im talking about, muslim nations have muslim laws and a muslim agenda both in their internal administration and foreign policy. similarly israel has a jewish agenda which is specifically seen in their zionist foreign policy. both are extremely destructive to the world {israel moreso than others due to it being powerful right now} and shudnt exist.
the jews were an opressed minority in europe/russia and the middle east. it makes sense for there to be a SECULAR nation{as far as the STATE and all legality associated with it} which gives safe haven and entry to all jews and stops any and all relegious interference in legal matters, stopping the discrimination against them. that does NOT however mean that jews band together, create a RELEGIOUS nation which goes on and does to the palestenians what hitler did to the jews.
any1 interested should read material on the subject by normal finkelstien and noam chomsky.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
well i dont cry about them but i complain a lot about them. there shud be NO nations whose constitution or governance, in both internal and external matters has ANY CONNECTION with relegion.
You're going to have to leave the planet to find that. Good luck and God speed, son.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But the Brits don't run it. I thought you were going to argue that you should be allowed to invent laws while in another country or something.
no, not at all
but the idea that I have the personal right to be governed as I wish is laughable
people, as a democratic voting unit, hardly have any choice in the way they are governed, more in the flavour of that governance.
Originally posted by inimalist
no, not at allbut the idea that I have the personal right to be governed as I wish is laughable
people, as a democratic voting unit, hardly have any choice in the [b]way
they are governed, more in the flavour of that governance. [/B]
I see the problem. It looks like I used "people" when I meant something closer to "elected government".
It seems to me that Leonheart believes governments should be allowed to have any system they want as long as he approves it. I felt that such a sentiment was "stupid", "arrogant" and "crazy".
So people (as in those who set up the government and vote) ought to be able to make the choices without Leonhart approving their constitution (or whatever) first.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I see the problem. It looks like I used "people" when I meant something closer to "elected government".It seems to me that Leonheart believes governments should be allowed to have any system they want as long as he approves it. I felt that such a sentiment was "stupid", "arrogant" and "crazy".
So people (as in those who set up the government and vote) ought to be able to make the choices without Leonhart approving their constitution (or whatever) first.
No, I would totally agree. If a community of people get together and decide they want to be ruled under a certain principal, be it democracy or Christianity, they should have that choice. When that becomes enforced upon everyone, I have issues, but the idea that voluntary membership in a community couldn't be based on religious or other such questionable ideals is somewhat arrogant. At the very least, members of such a community shouldn't have to validate their community to those who aren't interested in belonging to it.
The issue is that people see "religions" as the problem, as if as soon as religion is defeated, humans wont blindly follow eachother or make illogical conclusions. Hell, its why I don't like any systems, we are just going to **** it up.
Israel has the right to exist. They also have the right to reform their military, reform the stupidest democracy on the face of the planet, and to tell their Ultra-orthodox and Hassidic Jews to stop spending their time and tax payer money figuring out ways to tell other jews they're not Jewish and get a ****ing job!
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Israel has the right to exist. They also have the right to reform their military, reform the stupidest democracy on the face of the planet, and to tell their Ultra-orthodox and Hassidic Jews to stop spending their time and tax payer money figuring out ways to tell other jews they're not Jewish and get a ****ing job!
Apparently those who came from Russia and that area to Israel are mostly criticized for not 'being Jews'.
Why is there even a huge debate over this, I fail to understand. People can be Jews if they feel Jewish or anyone in their family is Jewish.
What is the big deal...
The issue is the law of return and the fact that these Jews have their entire lives subsidized by the government and don't contribute anything to society other than making everyone's lives harder. The ones that are really being discriminated against are Persian and Mizrahi (Yemenite) Jews as well as reform Jews and Jews who believe that boys should have a naming ceremony that doesn't involve ritualized genital mutilation.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
The issue is the law of return and the fact that these Jews have their entire lives subsidized by the government and don't contribute anything to society other than making everyone's lives harder. The ones that are really being discriminated against are Persian and Mizrahi (Yemenite) Jews as well as reform Jews and Jews who believe that boys should have a naming ceremony that doesn't involve ritualized genital mutilation.
This is true, I witnessed it first hand while in Israel and was told as much from Israelis. The long-beards come to Israel from America (usually NY), get a stipend from their American based benefactors, then leech off the Israeli government on the grounds of their religious beliefs.
They're the first to say who's really Jewish and who isn't, who should be in Israel and who shouldn't, they're also the first to refuse the mandatory draft, ie last to defend Israel. They've destroyed the town of Zefat, where I stayed, they live like ****ing animals.
In short, they're nothing but uber-religious, hateful parasites.