Darth Bane vs Darth Krayt

lol. I don't see anything wrong with creating a few threads to make a sith list...

if something was wrong with that, a mod would have come already. since this is the 4th thread.

and its 4 not 10.

btw I put Bane cuz its so obvious. Bane is almost invincible, unless krayt can electrocute his orbalisks. He took all the force from the 5 or so force pikes and without injury.

Why are you supporting a ***? You should support me instead! Then i'll bow down to you.

You are clearly bashing him, and if it was me, I wouldn't put up with that shit, no matter how annoying I might be.

And I've had guys bow to me before, and its usually just so they get a good angle for a jab to the crouch.

Darth Krayt wins this one.

He's a Jar'Kai master and Bane has no knowledge of Jar'Kai. He beat Anakin in a duel when he was still a Jedi. He survived the Clone Wars and in his own words, has killed thousands of opponents since then. He also defeated Cade Skywalker, who only survived because his mother shot Krayt in the back.

Krayt was powerful enough to keep himself alive for 187 years, and to slow down the growth rate of the Yuuzhan Vong parasites that were consuming him (true, he had to spend time in stasis to do both). He also reversed Andeddu's attempt to have his armour devour him and banished Andeddu back into his holocron. Heck, it's possible that Andeddu wouldn't even have been able to do that if he hadn't caught Krayt by surprise.

Plus, he rebuilt the Sith from scratch, meaning he would have had to scour the galaxy for apprentices and train them. He also made them completely loyal to him. He had to have been very powerful to keep his apprentices from ganging up on him (which Bane and Revan thought was impossible).

chilled monkey
Darth Krayt wins this one.

chilled monkey
He's a Jar'Kai master and Bane has no knowledge of Jar'Kai.

chilled monkey
He beat Anakin in a duel when he was still a Jedi.

chilled monkey
He survived the Clone Wars and in his own words, has killed thousands of opponents since then.

chilled monkey
He also defeated Cade Skywalker, who only survived because his mother shot Krayt in the back.

chilled monkey
Krayt was powerful enough to keep himself alive for 187 years, and to slow down the growth rate of the Yuuzhan Vong parasites that were consuming him (true, he had to spend time in stasis to do both).

chilled monkey
He also reversed Andeddu's attempt to have his armour devour him and banished Andeddu back into his holocron. Heck, it's possible that Andeddu wouldn't even have been able to do that if he hadn't caught Krayt by surprise.

chilled monkey
Plus, he rebuilt the Sith from scratch, meaning he would have had to scour the galaxy for apprentices and train them. He also made them completely loyal to him. He had to have been very powerful to keep his apprentices from ganging up on him (which Bane and Revan thought was impossible).

Originally posted by chilled monkey
He also made them completely loyal to him. He had to have been very powerful to keep his apprentices from ganging up on him (which Bane and Revan thought was impossible).

Um Wryylok 3 betrayed and killed Krayt so no they weren't loyal. Also the One sith are weak like the brotherhood of darkness.

Uhh, bttw the thing about killing alot of ppl. He did, as he became the chief of a tusken clan, and led hem in their clan war with 2 lightsabers................ but Bane was able to kill a sith lord without a pproblem, and never drawing his lightsaber. Qoordis was at leasst moderatly powerful.

Incanus
Uhh, bttw the thing about killing alot of ppl. He did, as he became the chief of a tusken clan, and led hem in their clan war with 2 lightsabers................

Originally posted by Eminence
Absolutely not.

Absolutely yes.

Originally posted by Eminence
Kas'im and Raskta Lsu would beg to differ.

Exactly. When using Jar'Kai, Kas'im beat Bane. Bane only survived because Kas'im stopped fighting to make a little speech (which allowed Bane to nail him with a Force wave attack). Here is a quote:

"The battle was rejoined, but now it was Bane who was in full retreat. Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamilir sequences of the two-handed fighting style. His mind was flooded with a million options of what his opponent might attempt and he had no experience to draw on to eliminate any of them"

Originally posted by Eminence
An AOTC-era Anakin. Impressive, but hardly enough to put him up there with Bane. Also keep in mind that he was far younger then than he was in Legacy, and that a post-ROTS Obi-Wan defeated him.

Perhaps not, but as you say, he was still a youth when he beat Anakin. He's gotten a lot more experienced and powerful since then. Same with the Obi-Wan fight.

Originally posted by Eminence
Quotes, scans, names?

Quote from Claws of the Dragon:

"I completed training as both Jedi and Sith. I honed my skills in the Clone Wars and I've killed thousands of opponents since then."

Originally posted by Eminence
Cade is impressive, but he isn't an upper tier warrior.

Fair comment, but Cade is a Skywalker, meaning he has the same power as Anakin and Luke. Plus he's beaten Darth's Talon and Nihl.

Originally posted by Eminence
This isn't relevant.

Power in the Force isn't relevant? Since when?

Originally posted by Eminence
Again, not relevant.

See above.

Originally posted by Eminence
So indoctrination = superior capability as a warrior?

Again, power in the Force. Power enough to keep all of his apprentices in line, so that they didn't gang up on him. Something Bane thought was impossible.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Exactly. When using Jar'Kai, Kas'im beat Bane. Bane only survived because Kas'im stopped fighting to make a little speech (which allowed Bane to nail him with a Force wave attack). Here is a quote:

"The battle was rejoined, but now it was Bane who was in full retreat. Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamilir sequences of the two-handed fighting style. His mind was flooded with a million options of what his opponent might attempt and he had no experience to draw on to eliminate any of them"

Perhaps not, but as you say, he was still a youth when he beat Anakin. He's gotten a lot more experienced and powerful since then. Same with the Obi-Wan fight.

Quote from Claws of the Dragon:

"I completed training as both Jedi and Sith. I honed my skills in the Clone Wars and I've killed thousands of opponents since then."

Fair comment, but Cade is a Skywalker, meaning he has the same power as Anakin and Luke. Plus he's beaten Darth's Talon and Nihl.

Power in the Force isn't relevant? Since when?

Again, power in the Force. Power enough to keep all of his apprentices in line, so that they didn't gang up on him. Something Bane thought was impossible. [/B]

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Um Wryylok 3 betrayed and killed Krayt so no they weren't loyal.

Hang on. A SINGLE guy betrayed him, so where does this "they" come from?

That's one guy, compared to thousands of fanatically loyal followers who would happily kill themselves if Krayt ordered them to. Plus, consider how long One Sith was in existence for. In all that time, they ALL obeyed Krayt until Wryylok 3's backstab. That was the first and only time.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Also the One sith are weak like the brotherhood of darkness.

There's been nothing to suggest 'weakness' in the One Sith, especially since Wryylok defeated Darth Andeddu, Talon defeated Jedi Masters etc.

Besides, the brotherhood of darkness are nothing like One Sith. The brotherhood of darkness failed because it was built on the idea of its members all being equal. One Sith does not do this. One Sith follows a single leader who is the embodiment of the dark side's power and strength. This is perfectly in accord with Sith beliefs.

by chilled monkey
Hang on. A betrayed him, so where does this "they" come from?

That's one guy, compared to thousands of fanatically loyal followers who would happily kill themselves if Krayt ordered them to. Plus, consider how long One Sith was in existence for. In all that time, they ALL obeyed Krayt until Wryylok 3's backstab. That was the first and only time.

There's been nothing to suggest 'weakness' in the One Sith, especially since Wryylok defeated Darth Andeddu, Talon defeated Jedi Masters etc.

Besides, the brotherhood of darkness are nothing like One Sith. The brotherhood of darkness failed because it was built on the idea of its members all being equal. One Sith does not do this. One Sith follows a single leader who is the embodiment of the dark side's power and strength. This is perfectly in accord with Sith beliefs.

Ya your right it was just one guy not they

But weakness still stands on the one sith and if you don't remember All the sith holocrons agree with me.

Originally posted by chilled monkey

There's been nothing to suggest 'weakness' in the One Sith, especially since Wryylok defeated Darth Andeddu, Talon defeated Jedi Masters etc.

Besides, the brotherhood of darkness are nothing like One Sith. The brotherhood of darkness failed because it was built on the idea of its members all being equal. One Sith does not do this. One Sith follows a single leader who is the embodiment of the dark side's power and strength. This is perfectly in accord with Sith beliefs. [/B]

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Ah, so you're assuming Krayt is anywhere on the level of Kas'im, for Bane to play around with him until he starts using Jar'kai. Interesting.

Do you actually know anything about Krayt?

Bane won't get chance to "play around until he starts using Jar'Kai" because Krayt will be using it from the word go. Bane was able to 'play around' with Kas'im because he initially used a double-bladed sabre, something Bane had taken pains to familiarise himelf with. Krayt doesn't use a double-bladed sabre. He normally uses a pair of lightsabres.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This matters how exactly?

He beat Anakin while still relatively inexperienced and has improved a lot since then. I'd say that says a lot for his skill.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Great. How many were force users?

Doesn't say.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He really ISN'T upper tier when it comes to battle but his raw force abilities are definitely upper tier.

Fair comment, but remember Cade beat two Emperor's hands. His skills are at least nothing to scoff at.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Unless Krayt's is anywhere near Bane's, it's not.

Did Bane keep himself alive for 187 years with the Force? Did Bane do anything to keep the growth of his parasites in check? Nope, he had to rely on a special helmet, gloves and boots to keep them from growing over his face, hands and feet.

So Krayt's power is most likely comparable to Bane's.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Or the fact that Krayt got a bunch of average warriors and lackeys and the only one who was either as strong as him, or stronger than him, ended up killing him when he had the chance.

Bane was convinced that any Master who trained several apprentices would be overthrown because the weaker apprentices would combine their strength to do it, so it doesn't matter if they were average or not.

chilled monkey
Absolutely yes.

chilled monkey
Exactly. When using Jar'Kai, Kas'im beat Bane. Bane only survived because Kas'im stopped fighting to make a little speech (which allowed Bane to nail him with a Force wave attack). Here is a quote:

"The battle was rejoined, but now it was Bane who was in full retreat. Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamilir sequences of the two-handed fighting style. His mind was flooded with a million options of what his opponent might attempt and he had no experience to draw on to eliminate any of them"

chilled monkey
Perhaps not, but as you say, he was still a youth when he beat Anakin. He's gotten a lot more experienced and powerful since then. Same with the Obi-Wan fight.

chilled monkey
"I completed training as both Jedi and Sith. I honed my skills in the Clone Wars and I've killed thousands of opponents since then."

Killing a whole lot of random, unnamed non-Force-sensitives isn't especially impressive.

chilled monkey
Fair comment, but Cade is a Skywalker, meaning he has the same power as Anakin and Luke.

chilled monkey
Power in the Force isn't relevant? Since when?

And by this logic, Celeste Morne is the most powerful Force-user in history.

chilled monkey
Again, power in the Force. Power enough to keep all of his apprentices in line, so that they didn't gang up on him. Something Bane thought was impossible.

Either list relevant feats or drop the argument. Krayt has done absolutely nothing that puts him on Bane's level as a warrior.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Do you actually know anything about Krayt?

Bane was convinced that any Master who trained several apprentices would be overthrown because the weaker apprentices would combine their strength to do it, so it doesn't matter if they were average or not.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Yes, a weakened Andeddu, wonderful. There's nothing to suggest any of them are powerhouses either, except for Wyyrlok.

There was absolutely nothing to indicate Andeddu was weakened. In fact, it would be completely out of character for him to do what he did if he was weakened. All evidence indicates he was at full power when Wyyrlok defeated him.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
[BYes we get it, the 1 sith is a perversion of the ancient sith and the true sith, so what? [/B]

Krayt was first trained by Xoxaan, one of the first Sith Lords ever. If anything, what he did was return them to how they were meant to be. The ancient Sith did not have a Rule of 2. Th Rule of 2 is certainly not a requirement to be Sith.

Plus, I clearly explained why One Sith's philosophy is in keeping with Sith beliefs.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
[B]There was absolutely nothing to indicate Andeddu was weakened. In fact, it would be completely out of character for him to do what he did if he was weakened. All evidence indicates he was at full power when Wyyrlok defeated him.

Krayt was first trained by Xoxaan, one of the first Sith Lords ever. If anything, what he did was return them to how they were meant to be. The ancient Sith did not have a Rule of 2. Th Rule of 2 is certainly not a requirement to be Sith.

Originally posted by Eminence
And then... ten years happened, and he was confronted by no less than the greatest duelist in the Order herself, an Echani Jar'Kai practitioner who had dedicated herself wholly to the study of the lightsaber and was reputed to have slain more Sith than the thought bomb itself.

True, but Bane was hopped up on orbalisks which made 90% of him lightsabre-proof, as well as boosting his power. He doesn't have them anymore.

Originally posted by Eminence
Either list relevant feats or drop the argument. Krayt has done absolutely nothing that puts him on Bane's level as a warrior.

* Defeated Anakin.

* Defeated Aurra Sing. (I must admit my knowledge of this one is secondhand)

* Defeated Cade Skywalker.

* Defeated four elite Imp. Knights.

All through skill (as far as I know). While Bane's skills are highly impressive, his victories were mainly due to-

A) Force power (Kas'im)

B) Orbalisks. (Farfalla and co.)

Technically, on Korriban Krayt talked to Bane, and Bane said that Krayts order would fail. Banes order failed because of another prophecy that would be fulfilled by the most powerful force user in history. Luke force god Skywalker. And Anakin Skywalker, the one who had the strongest connection to teh force in the old order.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is bullshit and you know it. Andeddu was finally in his body after thousands of years. His skills have atrophied. It's actually your job to prove he retained all of his power.

No, what's ****** is the idea that Andeddu would start a fight if he was weakened.

Going into battle knowing that you are not at your peak is a very stupid thing to do and Andeddu was not a stupid guy. He was also a coward.

So why would someone who was both intelligent and cowardly do something as out of character as start a fight when weakened?

The only way he would ever start a fight is if he was at full strength. There's your proof right there.