Originally posted by juggernaut74Without any powers he would be as strong as a decently strong human I would suspect. 😛
So how strong is Cain without any powers your opinions?
Seriously though it has already been stated that simply having the power causes you to retain superhuman strength for sometime afterwards.
After all all of his depowered forms that included super strength were him without the mantle.
From Huggernaut to Thunderbolts.
We should probably wait and see how strong they choose to write this version.
But all of his other depowered forms have still had some connection to Cyttorak. This version is supposed to be completely powerless, as he was completely powerless after he stopped being Kuurth, and pointed out how he'd be powerless again because he could already feel the Alt-Cyttorak's energy leaving. And it's been quite a while between him going back to normal and now. Any semblance of power he had should be long gone is the point we're all making. But even if he does retain some power, it shouldn't be enough to handle Colossus like he did, even if it was just taking him off guard.
Originally posted by Galan007He said he's powerless but he's still massive. I honestly don't think we'll ever see Cain not portrayed as being high level superhuman.
Back in Dark Avengers #183(post-Thunderbolts), Cain implied that his powers were spontaneously/randomly fading in and out:
http://i.imgur.com/E3f1zAx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NG7SYFQ.jpgI'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume his powers were operational when he fought Colossus.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
He said he's powerless but he's still massive. I honestly don't think we'll ever see Cain not portrayed as being high level superhuman.
Looking at those scans again, it is pretty stupid. I know it must be semantics but that 1st scan he says, "I'm powerless again". Then in the next scan he says, "I've still got my power".
Originally posted by carver9I thought he looked good in the World War Wendigo arc and in Axis. Spider-Man was calling for help while fighing Colossus. I know it's Spider-Man but Spidey has some good showings against some powerhouses.
Colossus hasn't been looking good lately. Marvel isn't doing him any justice. I can't remember his last good showing against someone significant. Nice showing for Jugs but I wouldn't put too much stock on it.
Originally posted by KingD19Not quite Cain did say that using the Captain Universe power made him not be Cyttorak's avatar but he still had super human strength.
But all of his other depowered forms have still had some connection to Cyttorak. This version is supposed to be completely powerless, as he was completely powerless after he stopped being Kuurth, and pointed out how he'd be powerless again because he could already feel the Alt-Cyttorak's energy leaving. And it's been quite a while between him going back to normal and now. Any semblance of power he had should be long gone is the point we're all making. But even if he does retain some power, it shouldn't be enough to handle Colossus like he did, even if it was just taking him off guard.
I think there are scans of him in New Excalibur where it also said that simply having the power altered his bodies size and shape so he would never be a normal human again in terms of strength.
Like juggernaut74 has said writer's tend use Cain however they want him without regards to consistency from previous arcs or stories.
Originally posted by NewjakThat's pretty much what I'm saying. There is basically two versions, we have depowered(X-Men, Excalibur, Thunderbolts) & full powered which is the full blown avatar of Cyttorak.
I think there are scans of him in New Excalibur where it also said that simply having the power altered his bodies size and shape so he would never be a normal human again in terms of strength.
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Did anybody else find it odd that Nightcrawler didn't teleport out of Cain's chokehold?
That's the problem. Even how he becomes depowered has been retconned. Originally, it was because Cy didn't want him to be his avatar anymore. But years bonded with the gem allowed his body to absorb the power and retain some of it. Basically Cy couldn't take all of it.
Then WWH rolls around and Cy says all he has to do is want it bad enough. Be selfish and want to cause mayham. Him wanting to be a good guy, the 8th Day events and also help Tom is what reduced him.
I recall at the beginning of his TB run that the comics mention the Uni Power dammed his connection with the Juggernaut power and that's why he was weakened.
Finally at the end of his TB tenure the writer gives off the impression the power is gonna run dry. His 1st appearance since then has him at normal human size. Which is a 1st for Cain.
I believe there are three main versions of depowered Juggernaut.
1. Huggernaut, which was back in his X-Men team days.
2. Thunderbolts version. IMO he seemed much stronger and more unstoppable than the Huggernaut version.
3. Current Cain. Smallest he had been since before the war. Strength and durability seem high, no clue where he stands on being unstoppable.
4th mention, in New Excalibur during the Unredeemed arc, they mention that when a second person touch's the gem he nor the current Juggernaut have full power. This allows one to kill the other to be awarded the full power.
Originally posted by Ptr_GrifinWhich is part of my point. It really is not anything to get riled up about. There could be any number of reasons that Cain has retained his strength. Heck perhaps his Alt-Juggernaut power hasn't run dry yet.
That's the problem. Even how he becomes depowered has been retconned. Originally, it was because Cy didn't want him to be his avatar anymore. But years bonded with the gem allowed his body to absorb the power and retain some of it. Basically Cy couldn't take all of it.Then WWH rolls around and Cy says all he has to do is want it bad enough. Be selfish and want to cause mayham. Him wanting to be a good guy, the 8th Day events and also help Tom is what reduced him.
I recall at the beginning of his TB run that the comics mention the Uni Power dammed his connection with the Juggernaut power and that's why he was weakened.
Finally at the end of his TB tenure the writer gives off the impression the power is gonna run dry. His 1st appearance since then has him at normal human size. Which is a 1st for Cain.
I believe there are three main versions of depowered Juggernaut.
1. Huggernaut, which was back in his X-Men team days.
2. Thunderbolts version. IMO he seemed much stronger and more unstoppable than the Huggernaut version.
3. Current Cain. Smallest he had been since before the war. Strength and durability seem high, no clue where he stands on being unstoppable.
4th mention, in New Excalibur during the Unredeemed arc, they mention that when a second person touch's the gem he nor the current Juggernaut have full power. This allows one to kill the other to be awarded the full power.
Originally posted by Ptr_GrifinI think that may be artistic interpretation. His Colossus and Rockslide both seem small compared to the versions drawn in the World War Wendigo arc just before this current arc.3. Current Cain. Smallest he had been since before the war. Strength and durability seem high, no clue where he stands on being unstoppable.
